Wow.

You're going to "liberate" Americans, and then exile whomever you don't like?

Wow.

Matt

Im pretty sure that when Obama says "everybody" he means the rich. I would be pleasantly surprised if he made changes such that everyone was actually contributing to the tax burden, instead of only 2/3 of workers.

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"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

-Thomas Jefferson

No chip towards you babe... just those that think that I should give even more of my money to support a system that is complete and total bullshit.

I do what I am supposed to do. And now that we have greedy selfish bastards dragging the rest of us down, I have to give MORE??? Are you kidding me? We didn’t go out and buy a house that we couldn’t afford. We don’t have any real debt. We are responsible and do what we are supposed to.

I am beyond tired of hearing that I am going to have to give just a little bit more. More more more.

And if you think for a second that the Lord Obama is going to raise taxes only on the rich, I have a bridge to sell you.

No... this is a generalization. Maybe those of who DO NOT live like this need to let those who do fall on their faces. I am not lazy, spoiled, nor am I fat. I am very conservative when it comes to money and buying things that are needed. I think that I am one of the few women my age that actually mend clothes when they get damaged. I don't buy into the "bigger better faster more" mantra. I don't care what is hip and stylish, nor do I care what is the latest and greatest gizmo to buy. I am not materialistic.

See... I think this is the problem. WE aren't doing this. You may be, our government may be, the people next door to me may be. But I am not. Making generalizations like this, and saying "WE"... I don't buy into it. The people that are doing this need to stop. Our government needs to stop.

Our government doesn't need more money, they need to stop wasting the money that they have.

People in this country need to learn how to fail all on their own. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you spend like a drunken sailor, that is your choice, but don't look to me when you have your McMansion foreclosed on and your BMW repo'd. While you were living high on the hog, I was scrimping and saving all I could, so don't look to me when your house of cards comes crashing down. Those were the choices that you made, so now it's time to deal with the consequences of those choices. (not specifically "you")

I am beginning to think that personal responsibility is over rated. Maybe I should jump on the "do whatever the fuck I want to do" bandwagon. From what I am seeing, no matter what choices people make in life, responsible people are always there to bail them out. Maybe these idiots aren't as dumb as I think that they are.

Again, no chip on my shoulder personally against you, we just fundamentally disagree on some things.

I have to admit, that bankwagon sounds enticing but I am afraid for some people it would be like a night of drunken debauchery, fun at the time but riddled with regret.

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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.-Winston Churchill

Once we stop electing Republicans to the executive branch I think a lot of our problems will diminish greatly. Eliminating trickle down economics will do wonders for this country.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

That is a big problem we unfortunately have in America. There are those who can't embrace the good while still recognizing that things must and will change. When it becomes the task of the delusionally "enlightened" to drag anybody, anywhere I will be kicking and screaming the hardest. The maybe not so obvious difference between you and I being that I don't feel it my purpose on this planet to change anybody. I will state my case and then allow them to make their own judgement. Calling people "moral degenerate"? Hell, a good deal of my best friends are moral degenerates but it is not my job to change them and honestly the balance needs to be there.

On the wealthy, you seem to be very comfortable making a macro reference to all of them being evil. My client who opened up a tire store when he was young and through hard work and intelligence now owns the largest tire chain in the country is stealing from you? Hardly. The man who worked for a rental company and promised the owner he would buy it from him and later did then turned it into one of the largest heavy equipment renters in the nation a crook? I think not.

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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.-Winston Churchill

Nothing is going to change until ALL people in this country quite being greedy, selfish little pigs. From the person who collects welfare because they are too lazy to get a job, to the CEO who screws over whomever he can to earn a buck for his company.

Until people stop being greedy and self centered, this will continue.

Last time I checked, the Republicans aren't the only ones running the show. You can't place the blame on one party or the other... it's BOTH of them.

We are certainly going to find out in 8 days and I hope for, all of our sakes, that you are correct. I do enjoy watching those who blame the President for the laziness that is becoming the status quo. If ever there was a group wanting to have their cake and eat it too, it is those who cry one minute about how Bush is so stupid he can't tie his own shoes and then the next he is the evil super-genius who modified CIA intel and tricked 535 lawyers and professionals in Congress into going to war.

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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.-Winston Churchill

I believe you when you say that you've only been doing what you are supposed to, acting in a responsible manner, keeping your finances reasonable, etc. Thanks to my accountant wife, we are very much in the same boat.

However, When I look into history to try to determine when we Americans really did best, it's consistently been when we let go of our selfishness, and came together as a group. Look at WW2, and the sacrifices that people made for the greater good.

This time, the threat may not be goose-stepping across Europe, but it's still there.


You are right that there are some generalizations in there, but they are reality for many Americans.

I also agree with you on the need for personal responsibility. Of course, even those who are trying to be responsible can end up trapped. Heck, goof up one payment on a credit card, and you may very well find that every source of credit you have smacks your rate up to 18 or 19% (check your agreements out if you don't believe me).

I think that we probably agree on more than initially meets the eye, but it's sometimes hard to find that common ground. Hell, I've managed to find common ground with several of the most conservative posters here, and have what I would describe as a friendly relationship with them.

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The difference here, pram, is that the government didn't really have to force anyone during WW2. The vast majority came of their own free will. Massive amounts of volunteers for military service and industiral work. This is something that I, and most on the right, do not have a problem with. No one was being asked to pick up the slack, so to speak.

That is not what is being asked here though. The choice is being taken away.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

I'd disagree. The quota system was widespread.

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You mean the draft? Just wanna make sure we are on the same page.

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I am a liberal, a classical liberal. Classical liberalism is liberalism, but the current collectivists have captured that designation in the United States. In Europe they are glad enough to call themselves socialists. But no one in America wants to be called socialist and admit what they are.

Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Industriousness, Self-Reliance, Perseverance

People in the military were being forced to resign for saying we don't have enough troops during the beginning of the War on Terror.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

No, I'm talking about quotas for meat, gasoline, rubber, etc.

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