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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
It's not about size, matchbox cars are very sturdy, it's about the strength of the frame in relation to overall weight.

The only place left to cut weight is in the structural steel.

Smaller cars automatically have a better strength to weight ratio, so don't need as much structural steel in relation to over all weight.

It is the same reason why an ant can carry 100 times its body weight, and we can't.
Smaller is automatically stronger.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
Actually Abrams tanks are far more dangerous than ordinary cars.
If you hit a solid object in a tank, such as a bridge piling, you are going to die in a tank.
Are there a lot of tank-bridge piling incidents?
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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
The National Academy of Sciences, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Congressional Budget Office and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are all wrong?


No, they are not wrong because they carefully say ambiguous things that make us make false assumptions.
It is true that if we start making smaller cars, they will come off badly in accidents with older large cars.
But that is not relevant, because smaller cars have fewer accidents in the first place, not all accidents involve 2 cars head on, and if we all try to have the biggest cars, in order to kill others to avoid injury to ourselves, then there will be more deaths in total.

It should be obvious that government agencies are beholding to auto makes since the 1950's, when the auto makes lobbies to end street cars.
If you want proof, consider why DEQ checks pollition in parts per million, instead of totals?
It makes small cars fail, even though they produce far less pollution.
And who profits the most from larger cars?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

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Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
What business is it of yours what other people drive?

Because large cars cause far more deaths.
When large cars hit permanent obstacles, they crumple up and collapse more than a small car, because small cars have better strength to weight ratios.
It is the tail end of a large car that crushes the passengers in the large car.

If 2 large cars hit together head on, there are much more likely to be fatalities than if 2 small cars hit head on.

Large cars are killers.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
goober's Avatar
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
Not a problem. I don't commute so even when the price of gas went up to $4, it really didn't affect me.
Then get an Escalade, it will look good in your driveway, and you should be able to pick up a used one at a reasonable price.
But if you don't drive much, then you won't be on the road much.
The point is, the average car will get smaller and lighter as gasoline increases in price, and with the decline of the dollar, gasoline is going to increase in price.

You will still be able to buy a huge car or SUV, but if you do you'll be shelling out a couple of hundred bucks every time you stop for gas.
But it's still a free country, and if you want to spend your money on gas, go ahead.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
So the truth comes out. Hippies are afraid but can't bring themselves to drop the golf cart and get real vehicle, so they are going to take away ours.

The funny thing is that it was the Hippies that started the SUV thing.
We used to buy vans, suburbans, travelalls, pickups, etc., because they were less expensive in the used market, and we could carry lots more people all at once. The VW hippie van was probably the first SUV.
But we drove more carefully, and VW vans still got over 30 mpg.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Oh, gee, thanks, Goob! What was I thinking? Nobody ever needs to transport bricks in quantities larger than 3!

And when they do, they're obviously fat cats driving the most expensive cars!

Home Depot rents trucks for only $19/day, so there is no reason to drive one all the time, just to be able to haul bricks 2 times a year.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
With three grandkids and family vacations, the larger vehicles are definitely a must. When 12 of us went to Orlando (only one grandchild went that time), we took four vehicles though two of us flew since we had to come back early. As it is now, one grandchild (14 mos.) is still in a car seat, one (4 yrs.) in a booster seat and the oldest one (10 yrs.) sits in the front because I drive an Altima and it's just too crowded in the back. I also have two step-grandchildren (ages 13 yrs and 5 yrs.) and there's just no way I can take them all anywhere at one time.
I'll never own anything smaller than the Altima I have now. As it is, I've been meaning to have the airbag disabled in it because as short as I am, it'd probably do more harm than good in a crash. My next vehicle will have adjustable pedals!!!!!

I have no problem with large vehicles if they are actually carrying alot of stuff. That helps reduce the total number of cars on the road, just like big buses are less wasteful then cars.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
We all try to have the biggest cars, in order to kill others to avoid injury to ourselves, then there will be more deaths in total.
Yeah where out to get you. We call ourselves Darwin's Chauffeurs.
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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
Do they drive over 40?
Yup.
Speed limits are higher in Europe in general, and there are essentially no speed limits on the autobahn.
Still fewer fatalities per mile driven.
It actually turns out that higher speeds reduce the accident rate.
Most accidents happen on slow roads, not highways.
Congested slower roads have higher traffic densities.
High speed highways are safer.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

It's all BS. Fact is bigger cars are safer than smaller cars. Anyone who argues that is an idiot. The new standards are a creation of the what is now known as the enviro-industrial complex.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent. View Post
A better question would be: Who would be better off, a truck driving against a wall or a small car driving against a wall. You can also use another truck or small car to drive against.
I don't know where you drive, but in my neck of the woods, walls don't suddenly appear on the highway in front of me when I am driving 65 mph.

I'll take my half ton 4x4 against a small car rather than hitting another truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent. View Post
You might be surprised to know that most accidents are not with deer. They are with other cars.
I'm not surprised in the least. Regardless, my main collision worry is deer, followed by someone who is either impaired, reckless, or just simply a bad driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent. View Post
Maaf is completely correct when the situation is a collision of a car with a solid immovable object or when 2 cars of equal weight collide. It is not the case when 2 cars of different weights collide, but saying it's safer to have a big car means at the same time it's less safe for the other guy. Everyone upgrading all the way is not really a good option because 2 heavy objects colliding causes more damage then 2 lighter objects.
Agreed, but that is not the real world. In the real world, there are vehicles of many different sizes sharing the same roads. In the real world, there are large animals that suddenly appear before you on the highway. If you think that I am going to voluntarily sacrifice the safety of my family and myself so that some total stranger has a better chance of survival in his sub-compact, you are quite wrong.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisl View Post
As has been said, most car crashes are against other cars, not deer. How many fatal accidents do deer cause? It's a vanishingly small fraction.

Two 18-wheelers hitting each other head on have no advantage over two minis hitting each other head on.

Relative size matters. Absolute size does not.
See my above reply to Vincent.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
That is foolish.
The cause of the injuries when a 18 wheeler hits a motorcycle is the weight of the 18 wheeler.
If we all drove cars as light as motorcycles, then there would be far fewer deaths.
And smaller cars also are much better at avoiding the accidents in the first place.

This is easily proven by Europe and Asia, where cars are much smaller and there are far fewer fatalities per driver.
No, it is not foolish in the least. It is factual in the REAL world in which I live. Good job completely ignoring the scenarios that I proposed, by the way.

Yes, sometimes the cause of the injuries between an 18 wheeler and a motorcycle is the weight of the 18 wheeler, but sometimes the cause of the injuries is the ground, or a tree. It is also true when a sub-compact and a motorcycle collide, or when two motorcycles collide, that the ground and trees can, and do, cause injuries.

But we will never "all drive cars as light as motorcycles", so your assertion is moot.

I'm not sure that fewer deaths per driver in Europe and Asia proves anything. Regardless, do you have statistics on deaths per miles driven by continent? That might be a more meaningful comparison.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
Are there a lot of tank-bridge piling incidents?
The point is that the inside of the tank becomes like a bridge piling, even when the brakes are applied quickly.

Quote:
8. If time permits, the driver should warn the crew if he applies the brakes hard. Crew personnel could be thrown into parts of the tank causing severe injuries.
http://www.milvet.state.pa.us/DMVA/D...Safety/sg4.doc
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