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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009
SamInTheSouth's Avatar
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Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
The National Academy of Sciences, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Congressional Budget Office and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have separately concluded in multiple studies dating back about 20 years that fuel-economy standards force automakers to build more small cars, which has led to thousands more deaths in crashes annually. Even though the standards were updated in recent years to reduce the incentive for automakers to sell more small cars by allowing different fuel-economy targets for different vehicles, the fastest way to make cars more fuel-efficient is to make them smaller.

Some safety experts worry that the administration's green focus could reverse progress made in reducing the highway death toll. The fatality rate in car crashes reached its lowest ever in 2007 and is projected to drop even lower for 2008 — to 1.28 deaths per 100 million miles traveled.

President Obama this month withdrew the name of his nominee to lead the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, longtime safety advocate Charles "Chuck" Hurley, after an outcry from environmentalists over Hurley's statements linking fuel-economy rules to highway deaths.

USA Today
Extreme environmentalists don't sound any more tolerant of the facts than extreme Christians being told that Earth is more than 6,000 years old.

Obama intends to put American lives in danger on our highways all out of the blind faith he has in a fragile scientific theory that has become the centerpiece of the radical extremist religion of environmentalism.
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Old 05-21-2009
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

In a Yugo...
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Old 05-21-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: May 2009
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

It is totally untrue that making cars smaller means more deaths.
It means fewer deaths.

Smaller cars are well known for having better strength to weight ratios.
This is true with everything.
It is why an ant can carry over 100 times it own weight.

The truth is that when a car hits a solid object, smaller cars do better, because it is the weight of the car itself that causes the damage.

When 2 cars hit together, the larger car is the fault of the damage done to the smaller one.
If both cars are small, then the total damage is the least possible.

Anyone who claims a large car is safer if you hit a solid obstacle, is totally wrong.
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Old 05-21-2009
Secretary of Defense

 
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Of course everyone would be "safer" if we all drove around in Abrams tanks. Then a little collision would rattle us, but we wouldn't suffer the sort of injuries which kill thousands of Americans every year in the more easily crumpled vehicles which are currently popular.

But we wouldn't get very good gas mileage.
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Old 05-21-2009
Commodore's Avatar
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
It is totally untrue that making cars smaller means more deaths.
It's not about size, matchbox cars are very sturdy, it's about the strength of the frame in relation to overall weight.

The only place left to cut weight is in the structural steel.
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January 21, 2013: The End of an ERROR.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."
---Benjamin Franklin
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Feb 2008
Location: earth
Posts: 1,171

   
Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
It is totally untrue that making cars smaller means more deaths.
It means fewer deaths.

Smaller cars are well known for having better strength to weight ratios.
This is true with everything.
It is why an ant can carry over 100 times it own weight.

The truth is that when a car hits a solid object, smaller cars do better, because it is the weight of the car itself that causes the damage.

When 2 cars hit together, the larger car is the fault of the damage done to the smaller one.
If both cars are small, then the total damage is the least possible.

Anyone who claims a large car is safer if you hit a solid obstacle, is totally wrong.
Your ignorance of the real world is monumental.

Who fares better against a 300 lb deer crossing the highway, the trucker in an eighteen wheeler, or the motorcyclist? Actually use your brain, and picture the two different scenarios. Then come back and apologize for posting such nonsense.
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Old 05-22-2009
County Council Member

 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 251

   
Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

A better question would be: Who would be better off, a truck driving against a wall or a small car driving against a wall. You can also use another truck or small car to drive against.

You might be surprised to know that most accidents are not with deer. They are with other cars.

Maaf is completely correct when the situation is a collision of a car with a solid immovable object or when 2 cars of equal weight collide. It is not the case when 2 cars of different weights collide, but saying it's safer to have a big car means at the same time it's less safe for the other guy. Everyone upgrading all the way is not really a good option because 2 heavy objects colliding causes more damage then 2 lighter objects.
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Old 05-22-2009
Jason Marcel's Avatar
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
It is totally untrue that making cars smaller means more deaths.
It means fewer deaths.

Smaller cars are well known for having better strength to weight ratios.
This is true with everything.
It is why an ant can carry over 100 times it own weight.

The truth is that when a car hits a solid object, smaller cars do better, because it is the weight of the car itself that causes the damage.

When 2 cars hit together, the larger car is the fault of the damage done to the smaller one.
If both cars are small, then the total damage is the least possible.

Anyone who claims a large car is safer if you hit a solid obstacle, is totally wrong.

Awesome, welcome to the forum.

Always ecstatic to meet someone who uses logic and rationality.
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Old 05-22-2009
SamInTheSouth's Avatar
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Rock Hill, South Carolina
Posts: 3,519

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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maat222 View Post
It is totally untrue that making cars smaller means more deaths.
It means fewer deaths.

Smaller cars are well known for having better strength to weight ratios.
This is true with everything.
It is why an ant can carry over 100 times it own weight.

The truth is that when a car hits a solid object, smaller cars do better, because it is the weight of the car itself that causes the damage.

When 2 cars hit together, the larger car is the fault of the damage done to the smaller one.
If both cars are small, then the total damage is the least possible.

Anyone who claims a large car is safer if you hit a solid obstacle, is totally wrong.
The National Academy of Sciences, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Congressional Budget Office and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are all wrong?
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Old 05-22-2009
Doctor Who's Avatar
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
The National Academy of Sciences, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Congressional Budget Office and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are all wrong?
Maat222 is partially right. If 2 small cars hit each other, it's probably no biggy in terms of which one comes out better or worse. The problem is we have a great deal of large cars in the US and every mom drives a big honking SUV. When an SUV hits a Yaris, just dig a hole and bury the people in the Yaris. It's toast and the SUV will walk away.
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Old 05-22-2009
mechadave's Avatar
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Member Since: Sep 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 129

   
Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

While its true that a tiny car is at a disadvantage against a large SUV, when the SUVs are gone from the nation's roads, that situation expires.

Either we buy more efficient autos or... what? Continue driving 3 ton tanks that get under 10 MPG?

What will be the next garbage thread slamming Obama for not being McCain?
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Old 05-22-2009
Rakkasan's Avatar
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Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechadave View Post
While its true that a tiny car is at a disadvantage against a large SUV, when the SUVs are gone from the nation's roads, that situation expires.

Either we buy more efficient autos or... what? Continue driving 3 ton tanks that get under 10 MPG?

What will be the next garbage thread slamming Obama for not being McCain?
americans will never give up large card/ SUV's regardless of how bad you liberals want it to happen
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Old 05-22-2009
SamInTheSouth's Avatar
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Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Rock Hill, South Carolina
Posts: 3,519

South_Carolina     United_States

Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechadave View Post
Either we buy more efficient autos or... what? Continue driving 3 ton tanks that get under 10 MPG?
What business is it of yours what other people drive?

Quote:
What will be the next garbage thread slamming Obama for not being McCain?
I didn't vote for McCain, so why would I want Obama to be like McCain?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009
Lieutenant Governor

 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 433

   
Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Your ignorance of the real world is monumental.

Who fares better against a 300 lb deer crossing the highway, the trucker in an eighteen wheeler, or the motorcyclist? Actually use your brain, and picture the two different scenarios. Then come back and apologize for posting such nonsense.
As has been said, most car crashes are against other cars, not deer. How many fatal accidents do deer cause? It's a vanishingly small fraction.

Two 18-wheelers hitting each other head on have no advantage over two minis hitting each other head on.

Relative size matters. Absolute size does not.
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Old 05-22-2009
goober's Avatar
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Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 12,183

   
Re: Obama's CAFE Standards May Put More Lives in Danger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
americans will never give up large card/ SUV's regardless of how bad you liberals want it to happen
$10/gallon - you still thinking about that Escalade?

Ok, pimps, rap stars, and the wealthy will still have their big cars and SUVs.
But as gasoline climbs back up, the trend is to smaller fuel efficient vehicles.
So yeah, somewhere there will be a Shelby GT Mustang sucking gasoline and burning rubber, but most people will do what people do when gas is expensive, and drive small cars.
This won't be the case in Saudi Arabia where gas is still 29 cents a gallon, or in Venezuela where you can fill up a Hummer for $5. But in the US gas prices are heading to small car territory, because this is no longer a petroleum producing nation, we are a petroleum importing nation and the sooner we face up to that the better for everyone.
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