Yeah, I'm with you on the fence thing. This really isn't anything new, what's new is the inclusion of the LGBT community. Hate crime legislation that already exists never really affected me because I don't normally go around beating up minorities, and I don't see myself going around and beating up transvestites either. It's hard for me to feel sorry for those who do.

You can say you hate "fags" all day long, but if you then punch a "fag" in the face, you'll have hell to pay.

James Byrd Jr. happened about an hour away from where I live. I remember when we had to go to Jasper for tennis tournaments, you could just feel the atmosphere in that town was full of tension and hate. I'm surprised there wasn't more violence. Maybe legislation like this will help in communities where these kinds of crimes take place.

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Democrats are sexy. Who ever heard of a nice piece of elephant?

Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart".

Well, I don't see "hate crime" as being specifically targeted towards minorities.

If we're going to have hate crime legislation, if a gay guy punches a straight guy in the head, for no other reason than he's straight, the gay guy should be charged with a hate crime...

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For those who have fought to defend it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know...



If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all...

Well I said minority because I'm white, but they should (and as far as I know are written to) work in the reverse also.

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Democrats are sexy. Who ever heard of a nice piece of elephant?

Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart".

I'm not sure what you're after since homolsexuals are not in fact "favored" after they're assaulted. They're still just victims of assault. Hate crimes impact only the perpetrators. Was the possibility that homosexuals might get special treatment the only thing about the hate crime law that bothered you?

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The most important political office is that of the private citizen.
Justice Louis D Brandeis

Not exactly. The Federal Kidnapping Act, passed after Lindbergh's son was kidnapped and killed in '32, made the act of kidnapping and transporting the victim across state lines a Federal Crime. As far as banks, any FDIC protected bank has Federal involvement and jurisdiction to protect the Federal Government's liability and assets.

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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

I don't agree with hate crime legislation, so I can't speak for advocates of such policy, but I believe I understand the actual principle of the matter. This is my understanding of their argument

A "hate crime" is a crime that is committed with the intention of not only victimizing a particular person, but also intimidating a particular group. If a bunch of white guys in an area beat up a black guy simply because he's black, there is the crime of simple assault. However, there is also the underlying 'crime' in the message that they're sending to other black people who were not the actual victim - "you better not come around here or you're going to get your ass kicked." That is, the "hate crime" is a crime against a person and a de facto threat to all other people who share a particular characteristic with that person.

I don't support this sort of distinction as some kind of special crime. It is already a crime to assault/rape/murder, and it is also a crime to threaten/terrorize. So, in the scenario I mentioned earlier, I think it should be up to the DA to make the case that the perpetrators committed a de facto crime of threatening or terrorizing others in addition to their original victim. I see no reason to create new, "special", crimes when existing ones already cover behavior. This just strikes me as political grandstanding.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Well, I feel rape should be punishable by death (as long as there is 100% factual proof it was rape, like a video). No reason to make it more severe if it's a hate crime. I don't care why you're assaulting someone, you shouldn't assault anybody for any reason.

I agree with this.

What if a white guy was jumped by a bunch of black guys for the same reason? Does the "hate crime" apply to them?

Yes, being favored by the law because of your sexual orientation is a big problem.

I wouldn't see why not, but I don't really know the text of the law. I don't imagine it specifies which particular ethnicities or whatever are involved. I imagine that's up to the prosecutor to sort out.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Well then I hope your fears have been assuaged by knowing the victim receives no benefit.

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The most important political office is that of the private citizen.
Justice Louis D Brandeis

I only saw the signing of the bill on tv yesterday and only heard a little bit about it. I thought it completely focused on homosexuals.

They have more protection from the law. That's a benefit.

However, I'm still wondering about the specifics. If a white male is attacked because he is a white male, does he receive the same treatment?


edit: If two guys are getting in a fight outside of a bar, and another guy calls the other one a "faggot" before they fight but he doesn't know he's gay, does he get in more trouble for the assault?

My understanding is that they are adding "sexual orientation" to the determining factors, which currently include "ethnicity" and "religion" and the like.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Makes me wonder why they would have to add specifics about ethnicity and religion. It's as if they are saying it's ok to hate some groups but not the ones specified in the bill.