Thread: Obama: Corporate Profits "Have To Be Shared By American Workers"

Originally Posted by Forplay

I have an Idea and start a business in my garage, I risk hard earned capital that I earned working and saving. My business makes a small part that I ship to costumers, my business grows so I now need an employee to put the parts I make into a box and apply shipping labels and stacks the boxes for the UPS truck driver.

And now because I have an employee I have to share my profit over and above the wages I pay that person. You are out of your mind.

The other little bit of business you did not mention in your communist system, if the business fails at some point. The owner who put up his hard earned capital has now lost everything but the people that took all their percentage of the wealth walk away free and clear. Nice of you to do that for those people that had no business idea, no risk, yet got paid a wage and received a percentage of the wealth generated until it went broke and they walk away. Nice try.

I chose to share profits when I owned my small manufacturing biz. What was gained by this model, made it a model I would use again.

That you think someone is out of their mind because they would share profits is typical Conservative thinking. So just admit it, you are just another greedy little human being, who thinks he is more worthy than the folks that work for you. And that is all that your mentality boils down to. And our economic system worships this model that you are fond of. But it is still a system based upon greed, and when greed drives anything, and is not fettered, optimum results will never be realized.

But hey, greed is good, as that is the attitude that we have morphed into. But I can recall an era when that was not so much the case as today. As we got away from the Judeo Christian ethics, we celebrated our own greed. And in the process millions of Americans got poorer. Hell, you ain't your brother's keeper, so everything is GOOD. I don't know whether you laugh at ya, or cry about it. So, I spend a lot of time remembering prior times, when people were ashamed of personal greed. At least, I was lucky enough to have lived in those better times.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

you are just another greedy little human being, who thinks he is more worthy than the folks that work for you.

Sticks and stones ... it is NOT greedy to keep what is yours. Thinking and actually keeping what is yours is not properly called greed bu freedom.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

I chose to share profits when I owned my small manufacturing biz. What was gained by this model, made it a model I would use again.

That you think someone is out of their mind because they would share profits is typical Conservative thinking. So just admit it, you are just another greedy little human being, who thinks he is more worthy than the folks that work for you. And that is all that your mentality boils down to. And our economic system worships this model that you are fond of. But it is still a system based upon greed, and when greed drives anything, and is not fettered, optimum results will never be realized.

But hey, greed is good, as that is the attitude that we have morphed into. But I can recall an era when that was not so much the case as today. As we got away from the Judeo Christian ethics, we celebrated our own greed. And in the process millions of Americans got poorer. Hell, you ain't your brother's keeper, so everything is GOOD. I don't know whether you laugh at ya, or cry about it. So, I spend a lot of time remembering prior times, when people were ashamed of personal greed. At least, I was lucky enough to have lived in those better times.

Greed, and self-interest are the drivers of production.

Take those away, and you take away the production as well.

There hasn't been a time since this country began people were ashamed of looking out for their own self-interest. It's what created this country.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Greed, and self-interest are the drivers of production.

Take those away, and you take away the production as well.

There hasn't been a time since this country began people were ashamed of looking out for their own self-interest. It's what created this country.

For Pan's sake, WHO is ashamed of looking out for themselves?

Although one would think there are better things to be proud of.

Originally Posted by Forplay

I have an Idea and start a business in my garage, I risk hard earned capital that I earned working and saving. My business makes a small part that I ship to costumers, my business grows so I now need an employee to put the parts I make into a box and apply shipping labels and stacks the boxes for the UPS truck driver.

And now because I have an employee I have to share my profit over and above the wages I pay that person. You are out of your mind.

That's not what DT is talking about. Most of the profit involved in business goes to investors, not the people who build the businesses in the first place. Most people don't have a problem with entrepreneurs making a profit from their ideas and initiative. The question is whether it's reasonable for people make money "simply because they have money".

I've tried to make the case that it is, that the role investors and profit play in a market economy is crucial to its proper functioning.

The other little bit of business you did not mention in your communist system, if the business fails at some point. The owner who put up his hard earned capital has now lost everything but the people that took all their percentage of the wealth walk away free and clear. Nice of you to do that for those people that had no business idea, no risk, yet got paid a wage and received a percentage of the wealth generated until it went broke and they walk away. Nice try.

This is somewhat tangential, but - as an employee - I don't want profit sharing. In most cases because, contrary to what you're saying here, profit sharing is also loss sharing. I found that out rather painfully with a previous employer who concocted a plan to reduce salaries and supplement them with a "generous" profit sharing arrangement. He didn't bother to tell us he was launching a risky project (a pc game his wife was designing) that turned out to be a complete waste of time. There was no profit to share.

But I agree with your point here. The benefit of being an employee, theoretically, is the security you get in exchange for not sharing in the profit/loss.

The problem with all of this comes when we let business enlist government (ie our tax dollars) to protect them from the losses.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

I chose to share profits when I owned my small manufacturing biz. What was gained by this model, made it a model I would use again.

Good for you, and when you say "share", is that not a bonus, bonuses are giving out every day by businesses. Hell, Wall Street is fantastic at giving out bonuses,"Big Bonuses". All of which you liberals bitch about, are they not sharing their profits with their employees? You are nothing special, because I would say that most and I mean a very high percentage of businesses give out bonuses to their employees.

That you think someone is out of their mind because they would share profits is typical Conservative thinking. So just admit it, you are just another greedy little human being, who thinks he is more worthy than the folks that work for you. And that is all that your mentality boils down to. And our economic system worships this model that you are fond of. But it is still a system based upon greed, and when greed drives anything, and is not fettered, optimum results will never be realized.

I ask you, why did you go into business, did you go into business for the sole reason to put people to work? Did you go into business to make yourself a living? If your small company went broke would your employees poney up and help you out, I mean with real cash?

Like I said most businesses give bonuses, which comes from the profits. That is a good business decision which is a shared by most all businesses. If there are not profits to allow bonuses, then non are given in most cases.

It is Conservative thinking to give bonuses, it is those same companies on Wall Street that you on the left bitch about. You see I've never complained about companies giving a bonus to anyone. But you liberals sure do.

In fact that is what the unions do not like is "performance pay" who are your dear friends. Take the teacher unions, you can not fire a teacher, they do not want a system of performance pay. So these are your people. So giving a bonus is a Conservative idea. Otherwise the unions would wave a different model, but their model is every union worker is the same and does not want a worker to excell over another. And get paid for excellence.

But hey, greed is good, as that is the attitude that we have morphed into. But I can recall an era when that was not so much the case as today. As we got away from the Judeo Christian ethics, we celebrated our own greed. And in the process millions of Americans got poorer. Hell, you ain't your brother's keeper, so everything is GOOD. I don't know whether you laugh at ya, or cry about it. So, I spend a lot of time remembering prior times, when people were ashamed of personal greed. At least, I was lucky enough to have lived in those better times.

Yes greed is good, it is the same greed that inspired you to go into business. It was the greed of money to supply you a better living. It was greed of yourself to better your standing. Yes greed is the engine that drives people. That greedy bastard wants to go to collage and get a good job.
That greedy bastard worked a little harder and got promoted and we didn't.

You know Blue I have said over and over you live in the past. That is where you're stuck, you never adapted to the changes in the world. Once again you are dead wrong in thinking business do not share their profits, they do, and it's those same companies that you on the left bitch about for giving bonuses.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Good for you, and when you say "share", is that not a bonus, bonuses are giving out every day by businesses. Hell, Wall Street is fantastic at giving out bonuses,"Big Bonuses".

Giving bonuses to only 0.01% of a company simply because those people are in a position to help the members of the board on the board member's company compensation packages isn't really what profit-sharing is all about. What you're talking about is how wall street loves to keep intact its nearly closed good-ol-boy system for giving executives more and more money without merit.

Originally Posted by dblack

That's not what DT is talking about.

It is what he's talking about, read his post and you'll notice he is talking about his small business share the profits, (giving bonuses)

Most of the profit involved in business goes to investors, not the people who build the businesses in the first place. Most people don't have a problem with entrepreneurs making a profit from their ideas and initiative. The question is whether it's reasonable for people make money "simply because they have money".

As it should, it is the investor that once saved his or her money from working and took that money and tried to support another business in hopes of making a profit, and it is those same investors that are at risk of loosing their investment which they have skin in the game. An employee has not skin in the game. He/she gets paid every week.

I've tried to make the case that it is, that the role investors and profit play in a market economy is crucial to its proper functioning.

Totally agree

This is somewhat tangential, but - as an employee - I don't want profit sharing. In most cases because, contrary to what you're saying here, profit sharing is also loss sharing. I found that out rather painfully with a previous employer who concocted a plan to reduce salaries and supplement them with a "generous" profit sharing arrangement. He didn't bother to tell us he was launching a risky project (a pc game his wife was designing) that turned out to be a complete waste of time. There was no profit to share.

There you go when you have skin in the game, everything changes, however the is common in business practices. Take stock options, same thing, you earn a lot of stock for your performance and bank the company goes broke and your stock is worth nothing. Skin in the game. And I would say the largest percentage of people do not want skin in the game. They do not want risk, there are risk adverse.

But I agree with your point here. The benefit of being an employee, theoretically is the security you get in exchange for not sharing in the profit/loss.

Yes it is. I mentioned this above

The problem with all of this comes when we let business enlist government (ie our tax dollars) to protect them from the losses.

This I fully agree with.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Giving bonuses to only 0.01% of a company simply because those people are in a position to help the members of the board on the board member's company compensation packages isn't really what profit-sharing is all about. What you're talking about is how wall street loves to keep intact its nearly closed good-ol-boy system for giving executives more and more money without merit.

Yes it certainly is a closed & self-perpetuating system. It is certainly not self-sustaining where the risk are 'socialized' & the profits are privatized.

Risks are 'socialized' meaning tax payers bail out when they fail at casino games.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Giving bonuses to only 0.01% of a company simply because those people are in a position to help the members of the board on the board member's company compensation packages isn't really what profit-sharing is all about. What you're talking about is how wall street loves to keep intact its nearly closed good-ol-boy system for giving executives more and more money without merit.

Sense when is giving a bonus to employees only reserved for large corporations. It is every company from the Mom and Pop company to the largest of corporations gives bonuses to their employees.

I used Wall Street as an example only of companies giving bonuses, a bonus is not part of any compensation package. There are compensation packages tied to profit, but we're not talking about an employee employment contract. that is where you have skin in the game. An employee that receives a bonus is simply that, a bonus that the employer gives to an employee as a result of profit. And is willing to share some of the profit with his employees in the way of a bonus. And this is done every day with almost every business.

So the idea that companies do not share some of their profits with their employees, is dead wrong.

I also might add union members are not allowed to receive bonuses. And who do they support, Democrats

Originally Posted by dblack

The problem with all of this comes when we let business enlist government (ie our tax dollars) to protect them from the losses.

That is how the system is set up. It continues to be set up this way. How do you prevent this from happening?

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

I chose to share profits when I owned my small manufacturing biz. What was gained by this model, made it a model I would use again.

What happened to that business?

Originally Posted by Quinn

That is how the system is set up. It continues to be set up this way. How do you prevent this from happening?

Most immediately, vote out leaders who support bailouts. Then we need to readdress corporate law and regulation that protects investors from loss. Loss is just as important as profit when it comes to a properly functioning market.