Thread: I admire the USA for having such a great leader

"TORONTO, Oct. 20 — In a stirring show of understanding, the United States Marines and the citizens of Canada buried the flap of the upside-down Canadian flag with gestures of goodwill tonight before Game 3 of the World Series. ..."

WORLD SERIES - WORLD SERIES - Marines Rally 'Round the Maple Leaf, Easing a Flap - NYTimes.com

At least we know now which is right side up.

Originally Posted by Danny

I guess military people generally maintain a higher level of political awareness of what's going on in the political sphere than would an ordinary Joe Blow.

This is a good point to make. It was highlighted in the last election with their strong support of Ron Paul.

Originally Posted by Danny

Last weekend I was on course with the military at another regiment. During lunch in the officer's mess I had the chance to talk with this particular regiment's commanding officer and some of his staff. I brought up the topic of the American president just for fun and it ended up being a very informed conversation. I guess military people generally maintain a higher level of political awareness of what's going on in the political sphere than would an ordinary Joe Blow.

Anyways the point of the story was just that it was a unanimous feeling that Barack Obama could potentially become one of the USA's greatest presidents ever. These are educated men, many of whom have multiple tours in Afghanistan and other shithole places working for the UN. I wanted to convey this to you and also convey respect to my American brothers (whom I consider family) for having elected a person who has great potential to be among the most notable in human history. He's not there yet but I think it's a good possibility. I'm thankful to have had the chance to live when Obama is president.

Then the consensus was that no similar conversation about the Canadian Prime Minsiter has probably ever taken place in an American mess lol. "Hey that Stephen Harper is doing great things up there for Canada". :tongue:

Ah yes....I well remember from my training that when I was socializing with a foreign national that I never cast aspersions on the current administration. I was to be a representative of America and my personal convictions were to be secondary to the objective of exemplifying the grace and dignity of the American military.

I also remember being told that when I'm conversing with someone who is obviously demented I shouldn't excite them especially if there were sharp objects within hands reach.

This should be fun as soon as the right weighs in.

I agree that military officers tend to be more informed than the average person on political issues, especially global politics.

After all it is global politics that causes them to have to go places and kill or be killed, or what is worse send others out to be killed and live with that fact the rest of your life.

Obama is not the leftist extremist that the extreme right portrays; he is a classic centralist who works at building consensus as much as possible. The extreme of both sides has made his job a lot more difficult but sooner or later the mass of people in the centre will wake up to his potential and support him at making things a lot better both globally and domestically for the US.

Originally Posted by RDK

... he is a classic centralist who works at building consensus as much as possible.

This isn't something I've seen. Can you say why you believe this?

Originally Posted by RDK

...
Obama is not the leftist extremist that the extreme right portrays; he is a classic centralist who works at building consensus as much as possible. The extreme of both sides has made his job a lot more difficult but sooner or later the mass of people in the centre will wake up to his potential and support him at making things a lot better both globally and domestically for the US.

Hasn't that happened already? President Obama is received well all around the world, and also here at home. This includes the military.

Originally Posted by RDK

This should be fun as soon as the right weighs in.

I agree that military officers tend to be more informed than the average person on political issues, especially global politics.

After all it is global politics that causes them to have to go places and kill or be killed, or what is worse send others out to be killed and live with that fact the rest of your life.

Obama is not the leftist extremist that the extreme right portrays; he is a classic centralist who works at building consensus as much as possible. The extreme of both sides has made his job a lot more difficult but sooner or later the mass of people in the centre will wake up to his potential and support him at making things a lot better both globally and domestically for the US.

I wouldn't call him a centrist i'd call him a corportist, but he's certainly not the demon the religious right paints him as. but then again that's not saying much as they paint a rather broad and implausible picture.
At least he's semi-competent. He certainly gives a good speech (a big part of the presidents job) and he certainly seems apt at sucking up blame (another big part of the presidents job).

Originally Posted by reality

I wouldn't call him a centrist i'd call him a corportist, but he's certainly not the demon the religious right paints him as. but then again that's not saying much as they paint a rather broad and implausible picture.
At least he's semi-competent. He certainly gives a good speech (a big part of the presidents job) and he certainly seems apt at sucking up blame (another big part of the presidents job).

He also appears to know how to build consensus, which to me is Job #1 for a president.

Originally Posted by reality

I wouldn't call him a centrist i'd call him a corportist, but he's certainly not the demon the religious right paints him as.

I certainly don't consider him a demon, even as a corporatist. But I'd much rather have a principled socialist than a corporatist.

Originally Posted by dblack

I certainly don't consider him a demon, even as a corporatist. But I'd much rather have a principled socialist than a corporatist.

See, i'll take a corporatist over a socialist anyday. The whole Devil you know arguement

Originally Posted by Dick Martin

He also appears to know how to build consensus, which to me is Job #1 for a president.

among his own party sure. thats not an accomplishment.

Granted the repubs are unsatisfiable (he's a dem after all), but obama doesn't do a great job of trying to unify. He does a job of it, but not a great one. (note not because he's unsuccessful. Becuase the deals he presents are obviously unsuccessful to the people he's trying to sway)

Originally Posted by reality

See, i'll take a corporatist over a socialist anyday. The whole Devil you know arguement

I think we know both pretty well, and corporatists are essentially fascists in basic principles. It ALL comes down to the notion that the state's main function is to allocate power and wealth amongst all the various groups in society. Socialism often devolves to this, but not necessarily, and at least nominally holds the interests of the people in general as it the prime good. Corporatism is cynicism expressed as a political virtue. It acquiesces to the notion that government is just there to divvy up the spoils of the coercive state.

I fail to see corporatism as a sane "compromise" between capitalism and socialism. Instead, it's a poisonous hybrid of the worst features of each.

Originally Posted by dblack

I think we know both pretty well, and corporatists are essentially fascists in basic principles. It ALL comes down to the notion that the state's main function is to allocate power and wealth amongst all the various groups in society. Socialism often devolves to this, but not necessarily, and at least nominally holds the interests of the people in general as it the prime good. Corporatism is cynicism expressed as a political virtue. It acquiesces to the notion that government is just there to divvy up the spoils of the coercive state.

I fail to see corporatism as a sane "compromise" between capitalism and socialism. Instead, it's a poisonous hybrid of the worst features of each.

I tend to think of it as reality. Corporatists do whatever gets them money and re-elected (like all politicians). They split the difference between those two. That's not necessairly a bad thing, as I don't believe the public at large is entitled to the spoils of corporations etc.
Corporatism is rationally looking at the reality and deciding what is the best move for all (as a whole not as individuals). This ideal takes into account the FACT of private interest v public interest (unlike communism) etc. Its not a necessairly dirty word. It's really about as centrist as politicians (in places of actual power and influence) get.



EDIT: i think you are mistaking my acceptance of corporatism as my love of it. I do not appreciate or enjoy the system. I merely acknowledge that it is.