Visit the Archives for U.S. Politics Online -- U.S. Politics Online . net


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

  1. #1
    James Cessna's Avatar
    James Cessna is offline Concerned Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    52
    Rep Power
    0

    Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    This review was very good.

    It compares the Obama we knew in 2008 to the Obama we now know in 2011.

    Is this this same person? I don't know. You be the judge!


    The Reality of 2011

    We are now nearing the third year of the Obama administration. Were those worries of 2008 at all justified? Let us briefly review them in the same order:

    In truth, Obama, for all his rhetorical skills and soft-spoken charisma, had little experience in the private sector outside of politics, academia, foundations, and subsidized organizing. Consequently, he did not seem to understand the nature of profit and loss, payrolls, how businesses worked and planned, or much of anything in the private sector.

    Obama at times seemed to lack common sense, and perhaps even common knowledge. He appeared confused about everything from the number of U.S. states to the idea that air pressure and “tune-ups” might substitute for new oil exploration. He seemed assured when reading a teleprompted script, and yet lost much of his eloquence when it came to repartee and question and answer.

    Were these concerns justified? Let's closely analyze Obama's progress since he has been president.

    a) Economy? Obama’s EU-like economic plan is in shambles. Prior to Obama, Keynesians had argued that no one had given them a fair shot since the Depression. But borrowing nearly five trillion in less than three years, near zero interest rates, vastly expanding food stamps and unemployment benefits, absorbing private companies, and issuing vast new financial and environmental regulations turned an anticipated recovery into another near recession. In any case, Obama’s economic architects of such Keynesian policies — Goolsbee, Orszag, Romer, Summers — mysteriously did not last three years. We must now conclude Keynesian economics has been thoroughly discredited.

    b) Common sense? 2008 campaign “slips” prefaced things like “corpse-man” and speaking Austrian — perhaps understandable, but not in the media climate of zero media tolerance for “nucular.” Presidents I suppose in the future will have to be taught by handlers not to bow to emperors and kings. Going to our ally Germany to commemorate the fall of the Berlin Wall was apparently less important than jetting to Copenhagen to lobby for a Chicago Olympics. The 2009 Cairo speech was one of the most factually incorrect speeches in recent presidential history, as almost every assertion was demonstrably false. Well before Solyndra, the secretary of energy quipped that gas prices should reach European levels, that California farms would some day blow away, and that Americans, in essence, could not be trusted to buy the right light bulbs. From “man-made disasters” to “overseas contingency operations” to “my people” and “cowards” to videos assuring that immigration laws will not be enforced, the Obama cabinet is about what one could have predicted back in 2008.

    c) Political savvy? Why federalize health care in the midst of a recession with 10% plus unemployment? Obama promised the public in November 2010 not to raise taxes in a recession; in 2011 he promised instead to raise them a lot. Solyndra seems far worse than Enron, but Fast and Furious perhaps as bad as Iran Contra — except that Americans died in the former (Fast and Furious) and not the latter. In 2010, potential Republican opponents and the Democratic base were worried that Obama would triangulate as Clinton had in 1995; in 2011, most observers are exasperated that he thinks more of what failed in 2010 is the remedy in 2011.

    d) Hate or love of the elite? The hints of the 2008 attraction and distrust of wealth only magnified by 2011. In the midst of “at some point” we have made enough money, of not the time for profits on Wall Street, of “millionaires and billionaires,” of “corporate jets,” of going after everyone from guitar factories to Boeing — in the midst of all that, where do all the all elite vacation spots and golf resorts fit in — along with massive donations from Goldman Sachs and BP? How strange that the more one demonizes the good life that unimaginable riches provide, the more one seems comfortable with the good life that unlimited government subsidizes?

    The skeptics of 2008 proved prescient; those who demonized them should be embarrassed. And we should remember that candidates, of both parties, will govern mostly as they campaign. Slips are not indiscretions, but often will prove in hindsight windows of the soul.

    Source: Works and Days » Did 2008 Come True?

  2. #2
    tsquare's Avatar
    tsquare is online now Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    12,405
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    2293

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    This is a bit unfair.

    Is Obama the same sniveling punk ass Marxist that many of us knew he was going into the election of 2008?

    Oh, hell yes.

    But for the 800,000 voters that actually elected him... no... all this comes at some level of surprise.

    Obama was packaged and kept as an enigma... his true thoughts hidden by both slick marketing and a lack of a record. Obama became a vessel into which anyone could pore their own vision into... their (the individual voter) own 'hope and change' Obama couldn't be that guy... because that guy didn't exist.

    Yet a sizable number of people voted for him.

    But that was then... this is now:

    Obama has a Pennsylvania problem, particularly with working-class Democrats and women who supported Hillary Clinton in 2008.

    He eventually won them over (along with young people and blacks), beating Republican John McCain by nearly 10 points.

    Today, not so much -- largely based on loss of trust.

    Candidates know they can evoke strong negative feelings and still win back voters. But voters' trust is nearly impossible to recover.

    "A lot of working-class and middle-class Democrats in Pennsylvania see candidates through the prism of their values," said one party strategist working to win back distrustful voters for Obama. This time, he admitted, the task "is more of a challenge."
    And they now know that Obama doesn't share those values... or much else with them.

    Actually, Obama has trouble all around, according to Mark Rozell, public policy professor at George Mason University: "The liberal core is unhappy with his policies and won't turn out for him as solidly as in 2008, and ... independents and so-called Reagan Democrats are abandoning him in large numbers."

    Signs of discontent are seen even among blacks.
    The vessel into which anyone could pore their own vision into... their (the individual voter) own 'hope and change' has failed them... all of them.

    Actually it's worse than that...

    Obama's Electoral College calculus is complicated by not polling well among white Jacksonian Democrats, said Curt Nicholas, a Baylor University political science professor.

    That may put "several electorally rich, traditionally Dem-leaning states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania into play, while convincing many that he has less chance ... of winning traditional battleground states like Ohio, Iowa and Florida," he said.

    Obama polls slightly better -- but still not that well -- in Nevada, Colorado, North Carolina and Virginia, due to an influx of Latino voters in the first two and to highly educated professional whites in the others.

    That's why he'll begin a "jobs" bus tour in Virginia and North Carolina on Monday.
    But here is the point I love:

    Nicholas said Obama's "class-based populist attacks ... are traditionally thought to appeal to the 'Jacksonian' white voters that he is polling the worst with, while repelling the professional white voters he is close to doing well with.

    "That tack only works if the populist attacks are rhetorical" and don't harm "the gentry whites' economic interests."
    So, once again... to have a chance of getting re-elected, he must become something that he is not. Can he do that twice? Not if he can't win back voters like Ted Manning

    Manning doesn't blame Obama for the bad economy, "but he hasn't earned my vote, either. He hasn't shown me he can get the job done."
    Folks... we should not be talking about Pennsylvania. But we are. And Michigan... and Wisconsin... and Ohio.

    That we are is really the tale...


    RealClearPolitics - Obama's Pennsylvania Problem

  3. #3
    Commodore's Avatar
    Commodore is offline Vice President
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Upstate New York, USA
    Posts
    7,941
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    He is the same Obama I knew.

  4. #4
    JDJarvis is offline Vice President
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    8,721
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    The Obama we have now is identical to the Obama I didn't vote for. Most of his marketing was wishful thinking of sycophants and frauds.

    You could have run a faux-marxist agitator, raised in a foreign nation part of his life, who attended a racist church for 20 years, who never did much of anything, who had to use legal action to get into his first elected office and he'd have gotten elected as long as he was a Democrat in 2008.

  5. #5
    KingSolomon's Avatar
    KingSolomon is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    I don't think the 2008 analysis was accurate therefore the author is not in the position to properly analyze Obama in 2011. Seems more like slanted rhetoric than anything else.
    sf_jeff likes this.

  6. #6
    C-B-M is offline Secretary of Defense
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The Right
    Posts
    3,095
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Nothing Obama is or does is a surprise. The people who claim that they are suprised by who he is or his policies are one of the following: a) liars or b) ignoramuses. There are a lot of people who call themselves "independents" -- meaning, they don't pay much attention to politics -- who voted for him because of "hope" and "change." For example, a lot of college students who never voted before got swept up in the campaign of a relatively young and "visionary" candidate who had a lot of energy and was black (let's be real). These are all people who are b) ignoramuses. They couldn't have coherently told you anything about Obama's policies or beliefs, but they voted for him out of white guilt and a sense of liberal "I'm not a racist, so vote for the black guy" belief and a totally idiotic and infantile idealism that "change" meant something. Then there are the liberals who voted for him who are embarrased. Not the hard core ones, like some of the guys on this forum, who love what he is doing. I'm saying they're the guys who are sort of wishy-washy Democrat liberals who believe in redistribution and gay marriage but never thought liberal policies would cause this much harm to the country and they're trying to distance themselves from this debacle. They're a) liars.

    For some reason, all the conservatives knew what was coming. I guess that means we're the smart ones.

  7. #7
    eohrnberger's Avatar
    eohrnberger is offline Secretary of State
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,095
    Rep Power
    821

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by C-B-M View Post
    Nothing Obama is or does is a surprise. The people who claim that they are suprised by who he is or his policies are one of the following: a) liars or b) ignoramuses. There are a lot of people who call themselves "independents" -- meaning, they don't pay much attention to politics -- who voted for him because of "hope" and "change." For example, a lot of college students who never voted before got swept up in the campaign of a relatively young and "visionary" candidate who had a lot of energy and was black (let's be real). These are all people who are b) ignoramuses. They couldn't have coherently told you anything about Obama's policies or beliefs, but they voted for him out of white guilt and a sense of liberal "I'm not a racist, so vote for the black guy" belief and a totally idiotic and infantile idealism that "change" meant something. Then there are the liberals who voted for him who are embarrased. Not the hard core ones, like some of the guys on this forum, who love what he is doing. I'm saying they're the guys who are sort of wishy-washy Democrat liberals who believe in redistribution and gay marriage but never thought liberal policies would cause this much harm to the country and they're trying to distance themselves from this debacle. They're a) liars.

    For some reason, all the conservatives knew what was coming. I guess that means we're the smart ones.
    I still recall turning to my wife after one of Obama's later campaign speeches back in 2008, and telling her "he scares the shit out of me". She agreed. A better measure of common sense you'll never find.

    Now that we've sustained his and his ilks best shot, and they were promptly stopped in their tracks with the 2010 election results, I don't feel so scared anymore.

    Yeah, it'll be a bitch righting the ship of state, as MHP would say (of course he wouldn't say it in this context ), and it'll be tough and painful to rein in the excessive federal government spending, but what I'm hearing around, we'll be doing it, and we'll be stronger because of it, as long as everyone gets off their ass and actually DOES something, rather than sitting and whining with their hand out. When the going gets tough . . . . . .
    If a man were behind four months on his mortgage and was talking to you about his plans to build an addition on his home you would think him daft and delusional. But in Washington, ignoring a current crisis to discuss grand dreams is called “boldness” and “vision.”

  8. #8
    Blue Doggy is online now Vice President
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    South US
    Posts
    8,488
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    This review was very good.

    It compares the Obama we knew in 2008 to the Obama we now know in 2011.

    Is this this same person? I don't know. You be the judge!
    Just another dumbass partisan hack throwing in his two cents.

    Any President is surrounded with all kinds of smart men who advise him. That is the way its done. IMO, the worst possible man to inhabit the W.H. is a fucking businessman. You cannot run a nation like a donut shop. Gov't is not in the business to generate a profit, much to the chagrin to the folks on the Right. But many on the right thinks gov't should be run like a business, although they are two separate entities, and should be.

    Is Obama the same man that ran in 2008? Are you the same as you were then? If so, you are a victim of stagnation and have not learned a damn thing in the last 3 years. Wait, that may be a condition of being on the right side, not sure! Ask me next year when I have more experience.

  9. #9
    eohrnberger's Avatar
    eohrnberger is offline Secretary of State
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,095
    Rep Power
    821

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Doggy View Post
    Just another dumbass partisan hack throwing in his two cents.

    Any President is surrounded with all kinds of smart men who advise him. That is the way its done. IMO, the worst possible man to inhabit the W.H. is a fucking businessman. You cannot run a nation like a donut shop. Gov't is not in the business to generate a profit, much to the chagrin to the folks on the Right. But many on the right thinks gov't should be run like a business, although they are two separate entities, and should be.

    Is Obama the same man that ran in 2008? Are you the same as you were then? If so, you are a victim of stagnation and have not learned a damn thing in the last 3 years. Wait, that may be a condition of being on the right side, not sure! Ask me next year when I have more experience.
    Aside from all the overt partisan digs in this post, Blue does have a point, government isn't a business and can't be exclusively run like a business.

    Government is still constrained by financial realities in that it can't be spending more than it's taking in.

    However, you also have to ask yourself if the skills needed to do well in business are also the skills needed to do well in government, and on that front, there seems to be more of a conclusion that yes they are. In essence, the ability to lead people. This is an asset in both business and in government service.

    So I would disagree with you Blue, that the worst possible person to be in the White House is a businessman, as long as he recognizes that the federal government isn't a business, and he does in fact surround himself with pragmatic smart people, and not ideologues.
    If a man were behind four months on his mortgage and was talking to you about his plans to build an addition on his home you would think him daft and delusional. But in Washington, ignoring a current crisis to discuss grand dreams is called “boldness” and “vision.”

  10. #10
    C-B-M is offline Secretary of Defense
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The Right
    Posts
    3,095
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Actually, Blue Doggy is completely wrong. It's laughable to say that the worst person the be in the White House is a businessman. The only thing that reflects is a lack of understanding of business. He doesn't realize that a businessman has to understand his client, has to accomodate them, and has to understand the financial world. No, he'd rather have Obama, who has never been in business and, like him, views it as the enemy. Then he'll print money and cite Paul Krugman like the other liberals here and say "why, this academic says that printing money doesn't matter!!" And then when the entire economy tanks, he'll just sit there and go "huh ...that's odd." But the important thing is he's not in business.

  11. #11
    sf_jeff is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Austin Tx
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by C-B-M View Post
    Nothing Obama is or does is a surprise. The people who claim that they are suprised by who he is or his policies are one of the following: a) liars or b) ignoramuses. There are a lot of people who call themselves "independents" -- meaning, they don't pay much attention to politics -- who voted for him because of "hope" and "change." For example, a lot of college students who never voted before got swept up in the campaign of a relatively young and "visionary" candidate who had a lot of energy and was black (let's be real). These are all people who are b) ignoramuses. They couldn't have coherently told you anything about Obama's policies or beliefs, but they voted for him out of white guilt and a sense of liberal "I'm not a racist, so vote for the black guy" belief and a totally idiotic and infantile idealism that "change" meant something. Then there are the liberals who voted for him who are embarrased. Not the hard core ones, like some of the guys on this forum, who love what he is doing. I'm saying they're the guys who are sort of wishy-washy Democrat liberals who believe in redistribution and gay marriage but never thought liberal policies would cause this much harm to the country and they're trying to distance themselves from this debacle. They're a) liars.

    For some reason, all the conservatives knew what was coming. I guess that means we're the smart ones.
    Wow! People are really negative in this forum.

    Given that Democrat presidents have grown the economy by 767% since 1914 and Republicans have only grown it by 118%, I would say that he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

    However given the Boehner/Cantor/Obama showdowns that have happened and the record number of filibusters, I would say that the driving factor is the massive change we saw in 1980.

    Here is what has happened to Incarceration rates since the Reagan Revolution began:

    693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg_.png

  12. #12
    Oreo is offline Secretary of State
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,927
    Rep Power
    700

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsquare View Post
    This is a bit unfair.

    Is Obama the same sniveling punk ass Marxist that many of us knew he was going into the election of 2008?

    Oh, hell yes.

    But for the 800,000 voters that actually elected him... no... all this comes at some level of surprise.

    Obama was packaged and kept as an enigma... his true thoughts hidden by both slick marketing and a lack of a record. Obama became a vessel into which anyone could pore their own vision into... their (the individual voter) own 'hope and change' Obama couldn't be that guy... because that guy didn't exist.

    Yet a sizable number of people voted for him.

    But that was then... this is now:



    And they now know that Obama doesn't share those values... or much else with them.



    The vessel into which anyone could pore their own vision into... their (the individual voter) own 'hope and change' has failed them... all of them.

    Actually it's worse than that...



    But here is the point I love:



    So, once again... to have a chance of getting re-elected, he must become something that he is not. Can he do that twice? Not if he can't win back voters like Ted Manning



    Folks... we should not be talking about Pennsylvania. But we are. And Michigan... and Wisconsin... and Ohio.

    That we are is really the tale...


    RealClearPolitics - Obama's Pennsylvania Problem
    Has Obama changed?--- Could anyone possibly imagine a Barack Obama in 2008 leaking classified information--on drone attacks--or information on the cyber attack of Iran's nuclear facility--in an effort to prop up "his tough guy image"? In 2008--we (according to Barry were creating more terrorists when Bush was going after them.) Obama in 2008 wanted to "talk" with Iran--and indicated they were so small they really weren't a threat to anyone.

    Of course he's changed--but it's not who he is--it's simply out of "fear" of losing reelection and actually following Jimmy Carter's 1 term Presidency--that is forcing him to make these decisions.

  13. #13
    Oreo is offline Secretary of State
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,927
    Rep Power
    700

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    This review was very good.

    It compares the Obama we knew in 2008 to the Obama we now know in 2011.

    Is this this same person? I don't know. You be the judge!

    One thing certainly hasn't changed--LOL


  14. #14
    Blue Doggy is online now Vice President
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    South US
    Posts
    8,488
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    The lead off here was a partisan hack piece.

    But no way is obama the same man as ran in 08. He was naive enough to think the repubs actually cared for the nation, and he learned differently.

    When he was running the economy had not crashed yet, and he had no clue he would walk into the greatest economic mess since the great depression. When he could not save the nation from what the cons have done since 1980, the cons used it against him. What took the pubs 20 years to fuck up, they expected him to fix that in his first term, WITHOUT any help from them, and as they tried to sabotage everything he has tried to do.

    No, he isn't the same chap. He has had to try to work with low lifes and they have refused to work with him at all. Gotta keep him to one term, no matter what it costs the nation. This is the new republican party here folks. I can't wait until they get power back so americans finally discover what they are. And relegate them to the dustbin of history. After the mobs hang em.
    USCitizen likes this.
    "Like every other good thing in this world, leisure and culture have to be paid for. Fortunately, however, it is not the leisured and the cultured who have to pay." Aldous Huxley.

  15. #15
    USCitizen is offline Vice President
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nassau County, New York
    Posts
    9,116
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Is the Obama we thought we knew in 2008 the same Obama we know today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Doggy View Post
    When he was running the economy had not crashed yet
    I've read so much bullsh!t here from Conservatives that I actually lost sight of this fact!
    You should always have an informed opinion, so after I inform you, please feel free to express my opinion...USCitizen

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Did you vote for Obama in 2008?
    By hairballxavier in forum Political Parties, Campaigns & Elections
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 10-13-2011, 05:31 PM
  2. Blago Chief of staff: Obama knew of Blagojevich plot
    By Imperator in forum The White House
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 06-29-2010, 04:25 PM
  3. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 04-02-2010, 07:13 PM
  4. USA Today: Obama Orders Troops: No Flag
    By tsquare in forum The White House
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 03-21-2010, 06:29 AM
  5. Obama to Appear On FOX Today
    By jviehe in forum Breaking News
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 03-18-2010, 09:45 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •