Thread: "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

Originally Posted by USCitizen

MNC - Multi-National Corporation.
The money that went to pay the CDSs was promised from future middle class tax payer money.
It actually didn't really exist.
Obama talks the talk but will do nothing; I find him no better than Romney.

So, should I equate money that really didn't exist with money taken from the producers and given to the moochers in exchange for their vote?

Originally Posted by OldmanDan

So, should I equate money that really didn't exist with money taken from the producers and given to the moochers in exchange for their vote?

If Goldman-Sachs, AIG, etc... didn;t have those super computers to start automated fractional trading, we would have been stuck with higher taxes.
The fact is that during the years of Free Market CDSs, Wall Street knew WE were going to get the bill and their bought off Reps actually DID stick is with the bill.

Why is a guy with a mainframe running a program, that someone else wrote, moving our money to another nation a Producer?
Well, he is a Producer, but not for America.
And please don't tell me that investors are spending a significant portion of those Gains here...They're not.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

If Goldman-Sachs, AIG, etc... didn;t have those super computers to start automated fractional trading, we would have been stuck with higher taxes.
The fact is that during the years of Free Market CDSs, Wall Street knew WE were going to get the bill and their bought off Reps actually DID stick is with the bill.

Why is a guy with a mainframe running a program, that someone else wrote, moving our money to another nation a Producer?
Well, he is a Producer, but not for America.
And please don't tell me that investors are spending a significant portion of those Gains here...They're not.

Maybe it's because you have an inflated view of what their gains are:

News Headlines

Originally Posted by OldmanDan

Maybe it's because you have an inflated view of what their gains are:

News Headlines

It is interesting how deceptive the DOW is...over 12K.
The actual fact is that most people I know have pulled out of Equities and have gone into Bonds.

That leaves me with two questions...
[1] How can the media keep up the facade of the DOW knowing it's actually Institutional Trading between firms trying to keep up the illusion of a healthy market?
[2] If they're doing so badly, how did they pay back the bail-out so quickly?
Unless they pulled off some unaudited short term stunt on investors to get the money.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

It is interesting how deceptive the DOW is...over 12K.
The actual fact is that most people I know have pulled out of Equities and have gone into Bonds.

That leaves me with two questions...
[1] How can the media keep up the facade of the DOW knowing it's actually Institutional Trading between firms trying to keep up the illusion of a healthy market?
[2] If they're doing so badly, how did they pay back the bail-out so quickly?
Unless they pulled off some unaudited short term stunt on investors to get the money.

I believe the majority of the increases in the stock market are simply inflation. Government has been using housing losses to disguise the real inflation numbers. When housing starts to come back up, inflation numbers will skyrocket. If Obama wins and is in office when that happens it will be Bush's fault.

Originally Posted by zip98053

If you were being honest, you would admit that you don't really care if Obama is a socialist or not. You just like to bash him and are not above using the dishonest sound bites that you get from people like those anarchist at FOX.

Way to assume. Maybe you should spend a little more time on this forum before you go acting like you know anything about anyone on it.

I didn't see Obama in this video anywhere:

I Built This...The Video - YouTube

Originally Posted by goober

Before government there was no money, everything was communal, or communistic if you will, the group was more important than the individual.
The only thing the individual had was his or her status within the group.

Wrong goober - as always. Before government there was a society and no, not everything was communal by any stretch of the imagination. The society may have come together for mutual protection but if you think everything was communal, you've not paid a damn bit of attention to any of recorded history.

The individual built society and the individual built government. Without the individual, neither a society nor a government can exist.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Congratulations on your success.

Now let me ask you...

Did you build your own electrical grid?

Government sure didnt. The local electrical grids are all built by private companies.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Did you create your own banking system?

No, that was developed by individuals long before the existence of the US. Fundamentally it is no different today than it was a thousand years ago.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Do you use the barter system or do you get paid with government-issued currency?

Many companies do barter, and few actually use hard currency. Even if they did, it is PRINTED by the government, not issued. There is a massive difference.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Are you protected by a police force?

Nobody is. The police do not protect you or even society. Their job is to arrest criminals - nothing more.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

A fire department?

Again, there is no protection occurring and whether you know it or not, most of this country relies upon volunteer fire departments and even those who have paid departments provide for them with entirely local taxes.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Whose roads do you take to work?

Me? Roads built by private contractors fulfilling a government contract and some private roads.

Originally Posted by AdamKadmon

Do you use computers and the internet to make your business more efficient? (I could go on, but I'm sure you see my point.)

Government does not provide computers and while it started Darpanet, private firms created the Internet as you know it.

PRIVATE firms Adam. Cisco did not build the router to make government happy. Hell - most of Darpanet went over phone lines which were built by Bell.


What little government DOES provide, it does so because the people tasked government with doing it and provided the funds for it. Government did not magnanimously just crap it out of thin air.

Originally Posted by dnsmith

BTW, you could move to a less expensive cost of living state. Here in Alabama electricity is just a little over half of NY rates 9.74 cents per KWH.

Yeah - he's not going to do that. He considers it an infringement upon his freedoms not to live wherever the fuck he wants even if he cannot afford to do so.

Originally Posted by HonorsDaddy

Wrong goober - as always. Before government there was a society and no, not everything was communal by any stretch of the imagination. The society may have come together for mutual protection but if you think everything was communal, you've not paid a damn bit of attention to any of recorded history.

The individual built society and the individual built government. Without the individual, neither a society nor a government can exist.

A somewhat side note but the whole reason behind the Constitution was for a bunch of small countries (States) to band together for protection and safety.

Originally Posted by Wlessard

Just like tax breaks, an Industrial Revenue Bond is a carrot to get a company to relocate. I am quite sure if Maloney didn't relocate he would have survived. Getting a government contract is nice. It is basically the Government saying they need X done so who can do it for us. That is not government helping you build your business that is government needing something. The Reason State and Local government offer bonds, tax breaks etc is to encourage businesses to go somewhere and help the economy. The Government itself cannot do anything positive about the economy without businesses to be there for it.

If the Springfield city government called me and said I could have the contract to oversee and run their complete city IT but I had to move my office to either Main or State street Springfield, I would, why? because I would be stupid not to accept a multimillion dollar contract like that over location of my office. Same principle. And depending on how much they wanted me to do the work, I could push for tax breaks, a bond for a loan etc etc. No different than if Peoples Bank said they wanted me to oversee their IT for their whole chain but I had to move my office to near their corporate headquarters. I would ask for a loan for expenses etc etc. No different.

Now--now are you certain--

Originally Posted by USCitizen

It is interesting how deceptive the DOW is...over 12K. ...

That leaves me with two questions...
[1] How can the media keep up the facade of the DOW knowing it's actually Institutional Trading between firms trying to keep up the illusion of a healthy market?

You are starting to ask the right questions. The answer is obvious, isn't it? But like the Matrix, one shutters to think about the answer.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

[2] If they're doing so badly, how did they pay back the bail-out so quickly Unless they pulled off some unaudited short term stunt on investors to get the money.

Yup. I understand GM paid off the original loan but not the one quietly made so they could claim they paid off the 1st one.