Thread: "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

In my opinion, one does not get to claim a share of the credit unless one also accepts a share of the risk.


So to all of you who are attempting to find any way at all to forgive what Obama said, simply put, you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

If there was no government, we'd still be a country limited to land east of the Mississippi.

Roads would be toll-based, there would be no internet, computers if they existed at all would be in their infancy, who knows what language we'd all be speaking since we could have lost any number of wars.


Kudos to people who "built their own business from scratch", but NOBODY did it alone, at the very absolute minimum everyone did it with the help of tens of millions of military veterans who have served this country in both times of peace and war. To ignore their sacrifices is ignorant at best.

OK. I totally concede the point. You all have pitched in and helped me become successful.

Of course, since that's the case, it's also your fault that so many of my clients have shuttered their business over the past few years, gone on to early retirement instead of weather the storm, moved their manufacturing to China and put their money into accounts in the Caymans.

Originally Posted by HonorsDaddy

In my opinion, one does not get to claim a share of the credit unless one also accepts a share of the risk.


So to all of you who are attempting to find any way at all to forgive what Obama said, simply put, you're wrong.

So one gets multiple job offers and after careful consideration of a multitude of factors chooses one.
Is this new employee not assuming a risk by turning down the other offers?

Originally Posted by USCitizen

So one gets multiple job offers and after careful consideration of a multitude of factors chooses one.
Is this new employee not assuming a risk by turning down the other offers?

No, he is not. The fact that you would even ask such a question indicates your utter lack of understanding of risk.

When you're an employee of a company, you are doing a job for them in exchange for a paycheck. Fundamentally you are no different than a painter you may hire to do your living room.

Just like that painter doesn't take responsibility for the color you choose to paint the room, you are not responsible as an employee for a company's overall performance.

That you believe you are assuming risk by turning down a job says much about you personally and your sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by HonorsDaddy

No, he is not. The fact that you would even ask such a question indicates your utter lack of understanding of risk.

The fact that you think in such a manner reveals your ego.
Someone offered a position by Microsoft and Google and Facebook assumes SOME level of risk when more than one position offers that person the opportunity to make a profitable input, which I know isn't possible in your point of view because he's just an employee.
That person must examine the possibilities of gain and loss within each offer, especially if those offers are coming from more than one prestigious firm.

In your pitiful world view, a genius with no money is worthless.
How sad.

Originally Posted by lutherf

OK. I totally concede the point. You all have pitched in and helped me become successful.

Of course, since that's the case, it's also your fault that so many of my clients have shuttered their business over the past few years, gone on to early retirement instead of weather the storm, moved their manufacturing to China and put their money into accounts in the Caymans.

Plenty of men and women in the military lost their lives to give you the foundation to have your business. You're not having to die in order to share in contributing to the existence of this country.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

The fact that you think in such a manner reveals your ego.

If by "ego" you mean "competence and intelligence" then you are correct.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

Someone offered a position by Microsoft and Google and Facebook assumes SOME level of risk when more than one position offers that person the opportunity to make a profitable input, which I know isn't possible in your point of view because he's just an employee.

The prospective employee is weighing job opportunities - nothing more. Just because his input may be profitable for the company, even if it is not, he is still getting paid. Do you understand now why he is still not actually taking a risk?

If the employee was only paid IF his contribution made money for the company, then yes, he is taking a risk. This is very different than being a typical employee.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

That person must examine the possibilities of gain and loss within each offer, especially if those offers are coming from more than one prestigious firm.

That is called making a choice, not assuming a risk. It is fundamentally no different than ordering pizza for lunch instead of Chinese. You're not taking a risk, you're making a decision.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

In your pitiful world view, a genius with no money is worthless.
How sad.

Uh - no - never said anything of the sort.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Plenty of men and women in the military lost their lives to give you the foundation to have your business. You're not having to die in order to share in contributing to the existence of this country.

And plenty of us fought and didn't die.

Aside from my time in service I still fight every day to make sure that I can continue to do business and provide service to my clients. Not only that but I fight FOR my clients to make sure that they can continue to do business.

Why do I have to fight for my clients? Because so many other mother fuckers out there would happily take away every damned nickel they have earned in their fight to remain viable in business. They'd happily take away those nickles and dime and hand them over to some cocksucker in DC to "redistribute" as some "expert" with an alphabet soup degree and not one damned day of practical experience told him is "best".

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Plenty of men and women in the military lost their lives to give you the foundation to have your business. You're not having to die in order to share in contributing to the existence of this country.

And the vast majority of those men and women would be utterly disgusted by the idea that {insert company name here} never would have made it without them.

Successful people will find a way to be successful regardless of the political climate in which they operate. There were some extremely wealthy alcohol wholesalers operating in the United States while Prohibition was in effect, for example. Granted, they were breaking the law, but that doesn't change the fact that their entrepreneurial spirit identified the market and met the needs.

To claim that someone who built a business from the ground up did not do it on his own and does not deserve the credit just because his taxes paid for someone to pave a road is nothing but communist propaganda.

HD,
I'm only considering people who make a difference to the bottom line of the company whether front or back office.
The reality is that back office "engineers", regardless of actual company value, are spat upon, and that is most likely what Obama is talking about.
But I understand fully that is reality.

Originally Posted by USCitizen

HD,
I'm only considering people who make a difference to the bottom line of the company whether front or back office.
The reality is that back office "engineers", regardless of actual company value, are spat upon, and that is most likely what Obama is talking about.
But I understand fully that is reality.

You can suppose that is what he is talking about all you want, but that is not what he said.

Does the employee make some contribution? Sure - and he is compensated for that contribution. Would the business have grown without that specific employee? Yep - most likely. Is the employee responsible for the growth or failure of a business? Nope - not one damn bit.

Originally Posted by HonorsDaddy

Is the employee responsible for the growth or failure of a business? Nope - not one damn bit.

Are you on crack?
Every manager I interviewed with on Wall Street stated quite EXPLICITLY that I was responsible for the growth or failure of the business and that EVERY employee they hired better feel and WORK with sense of responsibility on their shoulders.
If I told the manager, "I don't think so", I wouldn't have been offered the position.
There are plenty of back-office professional hired based on that explicit understanding who are dumped like fecal matter when the manager needs to retain last year's bonus amount.

Hah! I'd like to see the front office sales guys back in the late 90s pull of a fraction of their deals if they didn't have systems that could process what they needed.
But as always, if you don't make calls and lie to people about phony investments, you're replaced in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

If there was no government, we'd still be a country limited to land east of the Mississippi.

Roads would be toll-based, there would be no internet, computers if they existed at all would be in their infancy, who knows what language we'd all be speaking since we could have lost any number of wars.


Kudos to people who "built their own business from scratch", but NOBODY did it alone, at the very absolute minimum everyone did it with the help of tens of millions of military veterans who have served this country in both times of peace and war. To ignore their sacrifices is ignorant at best.

If there was no govt, we wouldnt need roads, as we would have flying cars, the internet would be wireless chips in our head, and computers would be artifical intelligence that comes up with even cooler technology, because people would free to pursue happiness and not have had there work taken by the govt to waste.

In addition millions of people would still be alive because they wouldnt have been forced to kill each other by govts.