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Another school shooting

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  • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
    There are two positive results that are possible with a universal background check law. One is the prevention of a firearm transfer to an incompetent person, when the seller is a legitimate citizen. That is, the law-abiding citizen runs a mandatory background check, verifies that the person attempting to buy his firearm is actually unqualified, and the law (and/or mental health) community takes further steps. The second positive result is an extra sanction added to those who deal with firearms in the black market. (fe) Instead of going up the river for 3 years on dealing in stolen firearms, Shady Sam goes up the river for 3 years on the stolen firearm charge plus an extra 2 years for his second offense of failing to conduct a mandatory, universal background check. The first offense should be case-by-case, (fe) to cover the innocent citizen who sells a pistol to his nephew without the background check. Say, a $200 fine that can be waived by a DA or judge, for people with no criminal record or intent.

    Does this take care of your objection to "more laws, more underground activity" to avoid such laws? Of course not. Because that objection applies to all criminal law, which makes your point nearly weightless. In short, that objection to law has no merit: Criminals will ignore the law whenever necessary to achieve their sociopath objectives. The law exists -in part- to allow lawful society to isolate criminals if and when they are convicted of a crime. They are caught, convicted and sent into the can. Makes life easier for law-abiding citizens, even if we don't catch all the bad guys every time they break a law.
    This;

    "Criminals will ignore the law whenever necessary to achieve their sociopath objectives. The law exists -in part- to allow lawful society to isolate criminals if and when they are convicted of a crime."

    Assumes this new law will be effectively enforced and applied to every case.

    The shooting that is the topic of this thread, only happened because "officials," law enforcement from the FBI to the local police, couldn't pull their thumbs out of their asses....

    ... yet we still want to say this is about firearms and "laws" ?

    My main point still is that more law will accomplish nothing more than making life difficult for everyone who is law abiding.

    It still won't make "gun free school zones" anything more than fun places for crazy *&^#~rs to shoot up.

    If we want fewer kids and teachers dying in these incidents, someone has to be willing to be on location with the correct tools to stop them.

    We can waste time making ourselves feel good with words on paper "law," or we can solve the problem.


    ?


    • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

      This;

      "Criminals will ignore the law whenever necessary to achieve their sociopath objectives. The law exists -in part- to allow lawful society to isolate criminals if and when they are convicted of a crime."

      Assumes this new law will be effectively enforced and applied to every case.

      The shooting that is the topic of this thread, only happened because "officials," law enforcement from the FBI to the local police, couldn't pull their thumbs out of their asses....

      ... yet we still want to say this is about firearms and "laws" ?

      My main point still is that more law will accomplish nothing more than making life difficult for everyone who is law abiding.

      It still won't make "gun free school zones" anything more than fun places for crazy *&^#~rs to shoot up.

      If we want fewer kids and teachers dying in these incidents, someone has to be willing to be on location with the correct tools to stop them.

      We can waste time making ourselves feel good with words on paper "law," or we can solve the problem.

      Former Supreme court justice Stevens has an idea. Repeal the Second amendment. Sounds like a plan to me. https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59725...cond-amendment

      ?


      • Originally posted by redrover View Post

        Former Supreme court justice Stevens has an idea. Repeal the Second amendment. Sounds like a plan to me. https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59725...cond-amendment
        Yes I heard about this former supreme court half-wit.

        This just proves how careful we have to be about what kind of people that are seated on this court. . as if we didn't already have enough proof.

        You and Stevens can dream, but it's not going to happen.

        ?


        • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

          Yes I heard about this former supreme court half-wit.

          This just proves how careful we have to be about what kind of people that are seated on this court. . as if we didn't already have enough proof.

          You and Stevens can dream, but it's not going to happen.
          It might be a good idea to pass some common sense gun control before the repeal movement picks up steam. Would it really kill you to give up your R-15?

          ?


          • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

            This;

            "Criminals will ignore the law whenever necessary to achieve their sociopath objectives. The law exists -in part- to allow lawful society to isolate criminals if and when they are convicted of a crime."

            Assumes this new law will be effectively enforced and applied to every case.

            The shooting that is the topic of this thread, only happened because "officials," law enforcement from the FBI to the local police, couldn't pull their thumbs out of their asses....

            ... yet we still want to say this is about firearms and "laws" ?

            My main point still is that more law will accomplish nothing more than making life difficult for everyone who is law abiding.

            It still won't make "gun free school zones" anything more than fun places for crazy *&^#~rs to shoot up.

            If we want fewer kids and teachers dying in these incidents, someone has to be willing to be on location with the correct tools to stop them.

            We can waste time making ourselves feel good with words on paper "law," or we can solve the problem.

            Your argument remains weak. If there is a universal background check law -nationwide- there is motivation for everyone to abide by the law. Citizens who sell firearms, to avoid the consequence of breaking a law with criminal penalties, as well as extra protection against civil liability in case the buyer uses the weapon for illegal objectives. Law enforcement, who no longer have the excuse that the "crazy will buy a pistol at a gun show, so why expend the effort to adjudicate his incompetence?" And buyers, especially those who are relatively sane would pay a little more attention to their status; if they can't legally possess a weapon, even an attempt to purchase a weapon without a background check adds another stretch on their sentence if convicted.

            That's a plan. As opposed to the non-plan of hoping someone shows up on all larger school campuses, one who is both willing and able to properly neutralize Twitchy if or when he shows up. That hope is some heavy lifting for larger schools, while expecting this to happen for smaller school districts slides into fantasy. How does someone invent such fantasies for schools, when many local police dept.s have some difficulty finding officers who can "pull the trigger" when needed? How do these fantasies get placed ahead of legal reform? It is reform to make everyone who handles and transfers a firearm, responsible for that transfer of possession. It fits the "well regulated" phrase of the 2nd amendment, and this was the practice by those who framed the 2nd amendment before, during and after it was placed in the Bill of Rights. They took pains to keep the "infirm" away from firearms. We should continue that tradition.

            ?


            • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              Your argument remains weak. If there is a universal background check law -nationwide- there is motivation for everyone to abide by the law. Citizens who sell firearms, to avoid the consequence of breaking a law with criminal penalties, as well as extra protection against civil liability in case the buyer uses the weapon for illegal objectives. Law enforcement, who no longer have the excuse that the "crazy will buy a pistol at a gun show, so why expend the effort to adjudicate his incompetence?" And buyers, especially those who are relatively sane would pay a little more attention to their status; if they can't legally possess a weapon, even an attempt to purchase a weapon without a background check adds another stretch on their sentence if convicted.

              That's a plan. As opposed to the non-plan of hoping someone shows up on all larger school campuses, one who is both willing and able to properly neutralize Twitchy if or when he shows up. That hope is some heavy lifting for larger schools, while expecting this to happen for smaller school districts slides into fantasy. How does someone invent such fantasies for schools, when many local police dept.s have some difficulty finding officers who can "pull the trigger" when needed? How do these fantasies get placed ahead of legal reform? It is reform to make everyone who handles and transfers a firearm, responsible for that transfer of possession. It fits the "well regulated" phrase of the 2nd amendment, and this was the practice by those who framed the 2nd amendment before, during and after it was placed in the Bill of Rights. They took pains to keep the "infirm" away from firearms. We should continue that tradition.
              Your argument remains weak.

              More laws will do nothing to stop events like this. They're not the magical solution you imagine. That our law enforcers are too stupid, incompetent, asleep, high on drugs - whatever to enforce our laws, is evident in more ways than THIS issue alone.

              We have to stop dreaming and apply real solutions to this problem.

              And we will when we finally get tired of our kids getting killed.

              Until then, enjoy the show you lovers of the macabre -winks-

              Myself, I think it's kinda sick, but hey diff'rent strokes and all...

              ?


              • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                Your argument remains weak.

                More laws will do nothing to stop events like this. They're not the magical solution you imagine. That our law enforcers are too stupid, incompetent, asleep, high on drugs - whatever to enforce our laws, is evident in more ways than THIS issue alone.

                We have to stop dreaming and apply real solutions to this problem.

                And we will when we finally get tired of our kids getting killed.

                Until then, enjoy the show you lovers of the macabre -winks-

                Myself, I think it's kinda sick, but hey diff'rent strokes and all...
                I it became illegal to sell assault weapons. I think every reputable arms dealer would comply as would manufacturers. For example not many police resources are being wasted to stop Walmart from selling heroin.

                ?


                • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                  I it became illegal to sell assault weapons. I think every reputable arms dealer would comply as would manufacturers. For example not many police resources are being wasted to stop Walmart from selling heroin.
                  They would have to come up with a legal definition of assault weapons. What would that be? Any semi auto rifle with a pistol grip?

                  ?


                  • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                    They would have to come up with a legal definition of assault weapons. What would that be? Any semi auto rifle with a pistol grip?
                    Liberals like to play games with words - you know that.

                    Anything can be defined as an "assault weapon" on any particular day in liberalville.

                    Still.... Let's see if they can read. I have my doubts. but ,.... we'll try... again...

                    ===========================================

                    AR does NOT stand for Assault Rifle

                    The AR in AR-15 is assumed to mean assault rifle. It does not. Period. Just because Piers Morgan or Oprah said thats what it stands for it doesnt mean that they are right. The AR comes from the firearms manufacturer Armalite. Those letters are used as a standard naming practice for their firearms.

                    What is an Assault Rifle?

                    An assault rifle is a rifle that:

                    has selectable firing modes
                    can fire in fully automatic mode
                    Select fire means that there is a switch to toggle between firing modes. One firing mode is called semiautomatic. Semiautomatic means that when the trigger is pulled, the following happens:

                    A bullet is fired
                    The spent bullet casing is ejected from the firearm
                    The next bullet round is loaded into the firing chamber
                    Thats it. One trigger pull = one bullet fired. Thats semiautomatic. That is how most handguns work, how many rifles work and even how some shotguns work. Pull the trigger and one bullet comes out. Just one and only one. A firearm that fires one bullet at a time and loads the next round into the chamber is called a semiautomatic firearm. Semiautomatic rifles are NOT assault rifles.

                    A fully automatic firearm is often referred to as a machine gun. Machine guns can be described as assault rifles.

                    Machine Guns are NOT Readily Available to the Public
                    Once again, just because the news guy said it was a machine gun, it doesnt mean he is right. Despite what most people have been led to believe, you cant walk into any gun store and buy a machine gun. Dont believe me? Try it. In order for a civilian to legally own a machine gun (aka a REAL assault rifle), they have to obtain expensive permits and other documentation as well as pass federal, state and local screening processes. The vast majority of gun owners and NRA members do NOT own machine guns. The narrative spewed by the mainstream media and the liberal left saying otherwise is completely FALSE.

                    Why All the Confusion?
                    Well, there are a lot of theories on that one some of which include massive conspiracies and such. However, most of it is simply misunderstanding the real terms and definitions. Another part of it is the media hype. Its far more intriguing and shocking to talk about a murderer with an assault rifle than it is a killer with a simple hunting rifle. The third part is a deliberate goal to confuse, misinform and frighten people.


                    [ refer to link below for pictures ]

                    This is an assault rifle. This can fire in semiautomatic mode, three-round burst mode or fully automatic mode. In full auto mode, the M4 can fire at a rate of 700-900+ rounds per minute. This is a machine gun. This is NOT what was used in the mass murders in Columbine, Sandy Hook, San Bernadino or Orlando or any other of the mass murders people refer to when talking about AR-15 rifles or assault rifles. This rifle can NOT be purchased at corner gun shops.

                    [ refer to link below for pictures ]

                    This is NOT an assault rifle. While it looks like the M4, it isnt. Many, many of the parts and functionality of the MMR are just like the M4 but one key piece is missing: the MMR is semiautomatic and is only available in semiautomatic. Once again, this means one trigger pull = one bullet fired. The firing rate of a gun like this is around 60-90 rounds per minute. Yes that is a lot of rounds and yes that can mean a lot of carnage, but it is NOT an automatic or a machine gun or an assault rifle.

                    http://www.thefirearms.guide/blog/ed.../assault-rifle


                    ==============================================

                    The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. It is part of the Bill of Rights.

                    The Bill of Rights identifies pre-existing rights of all humans.

                    The Bill of Rights restricts the government from interfering with these rights.

                    The Bill of Rights does not grant any rights.

                    The Second Amendment protects the right to own firearms.

                    Repealing the Second Amendment would not remove the right to keep and bear arms.

                    Repealing the Second Amendment would only allow the government to violate the right to keep and bear arms.

                    The first known machine-gun was patented in 1718.

                    The Puckle gun existed at the time of the writing of the Second Amendment.

                    The Second Amendment refers to arms, not limiting itself to covering any specific weapons or leaps of technology.

                    The First Amendment applies to all modern technologies including television, internet, and high-speed printing presses.

                    The Fourth Amendment covers modern technologies including cell phones and personal computers.

                    The Bill of Rights was not restricted to only technology that existed at the time of its writing.

                    The national average for police response time is 11 minutes.

                    Every school has some teachers, school staff and administration officials present while in session.

                    School staffs are responsible for the safety of their students.

                    Almost all teachers and school staff in the United States are unarmed.

                    An unarmed individual stands little chance against an armed individual.

                    Many teachers have died while trying to protect students from active shooters.


                    Background checks are required for all online firearm dealer purchases.

                    Background checks are required for all gun show dealer purchases.

                    Individuals selling private property to another individual who is a non-felon is legal.

                    Criminals stealing firearms do not go through background checks.

                    Criminals selling firearms to other criminals will not conduct background checks.

                    The National Rifle Association is composed of 5 million+ Americans.

                    The NRA represents its membership.

                    The NRA does not receive government funding.

                    The NRA teaches gun safety for free in schools that will allow it.



                    Gun free zones disarm only those who choose to follow laws.

                    Almost every school shooting in the past 20 years has occurred in a gun free zone.

                    Individuals intent on harming or killing others will use any weapon or object to do so.

                    Evil people do not care about laws or human life.



                    A firearm is a nonliving piece of metal.

                    It takes the action of a living being to fire a firearm, purposefully or accidentally.

                    Criminals do not follow laws.

                    Newly created and potential future laws will be ignored by criminals.

                    People who are not criminals do follow laws.

                    There are state and federal laws making illicit drugs illegal.

                    60,000-65,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2016.

                    There are state and federal laws making drunk driving illegal.

                    From 2006-2016, over 10,000 people died every year from drunk driving crashes.

                    Murder is illegal. Mass shootings are murder.

                    These facts should have told you a story. You can ignore them and argue merely based on emotion, but that does nothing to change the facts, especially these last two:

                    Inanimate objects do not kill people intentionally.

                    People kill.





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                    • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                      They would have to come up with a legal definition of assault weapons. What would that be? Any semi auto rifle with a pistol grip?
                      We could start with the AR-15 that would be a good move.

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                      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                        Uh huh.

                        Yeah.

                        Oh I know.

                        These kids are going to reform America, disarm all the dumb rednecks and make America a safe, great place !!!

                        There will be no NRA !!


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                        Or maybe they're just crapping their pants for awhile and will accomplish nothing ... beyond making themselves look like the most indulged & ignorant generation our country has yet had to endure.

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                        We'll see.

                        Time will certainly tell.
                        So far they are sounding like good little fascists.

                        I love that these kids are still being portrayed by the left-wing media as grass roots, spontaneous inspirations. Raise your hand if you think they paid for the private jet rode from Florida to DC by having a bake sale!

                        The sad part is that these little dolts genuinely believe their enablers and handlers give a rats ass what they think or respect them. I guarantee you, several of these kids at least will become rather addicted to the attention (they have been getting the rock start treatment...probably flying in private jets for the first...and last...time in their lives) and will simply assume that they are now part of the nation's punditry and will start to speak out on all sorts of issues, which they know equally as little about, and will look even more foolish.

                        Hell, Hogg has already deigned to way in on the constitutionality of being required by their school to use clear book bags (for safety and security reasons). He has deemed it an unconstitutional violation of their right to privacy. What an idiot. The school has the right to friggin' search any and all bags or persons coming into the school, or even to ban any such bags outright, and this guy (who is happy to see a right of the people that actually appears in the Constitution) believes it to violate a right that appears NO WHERE in the Constitution.

                        I can't wait to hear their views on immigration, welfare policy, the Mueller investigation, energy policy, etc....

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                        • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                          We could start with the AR-15 that would be a good move.
                          Banning one company's product and not other similar products would never stand up in court. It wouldn't do any good anyway.

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                          • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                            Banning one company's product and not other similar products would never stand up in court. It wouldn't do any good anyway.
                            If one looks at gun violence around the world the US doesn't rank well until you factor in Central American countries. There is hardly any gun violence in Japan China and the UK. How do they do it? https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ther-countries

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                            • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                              If one looks at gun violence around the world the US doesn't rank well until you factor in Central American countries. There is hardly any gun violence in Japan China and the UK. How do they do it? https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ther-countries
                              You mean how come they have no equivalent to Chicago where 40 shootings per weekend is normal? I think you know the answer to that.

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                              • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                                You mean how come they have no equivalent to Chicago where 40 shootings per weekend is normal? I think you know the answer to that.
                                Yes buy back all guns.

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