Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

Progress with North Korea

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
    We can lie about and deny all of these things to make ourselves feel better.

    To tell ourselves a different story, so we can hold on to our beliefs that this trump fellow is a dummy.

    We'll ignore all of the following. Ignore or find ways to criticize and defy reality so we can keep ourselves fast in our fantasies.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [I]Nobody knew. None of us saw it. Amongst his biggest supporters, maybe a handful suspected it. Many of us expected the economic renewal of the US to happen. Many of us foresaw a significant roll back of Saint Barracks horrid, destructive agenda. A lot of us hoped for a major push back on the left.

    All of which we have gotten....

    ....

    [I]He has succeeded in having North Korea agree (document signed today https://www.americanthinker.com/blog..._surprise.html
    An impressive claim. Let's see if it plays out. Link:
    North Korea is believed to possess more than 50 nuclear warheads, with its atomic program spread across more than 100 sites constructed over decades to evade international inspections. Trump insisted that strong verification of denuclearization would be included in a final agreement, saying it was a detail his team would begin sorting out with the North Koreans next week.
    https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/06/12...uclearization/

    The possibility that the verification process fails, is very real. This point has already been brought up (and dismissed) more than once, so I'll leave it at that.

    The other point is Reagan's wonderfulness in foreign policy. Setting up a new commerce triangle of Cocaine, Weapons and Deals with Dictators is a failure, not a success in Central America. He gets partial credit for bringing down the Soviet Empire, although he arguably did less heavy lifting than Russian Grandmothers, but he did maintain his opposition to the Soviets despite their offers to morph into "communism lite". The replacement for Soviet Decay eventually was neo-Czarist Oligarchy in Decay, but there was little the US could have done about that.

    If Trump actually shows proof -both documentation and inspection teams demonstrate NK followed thru on their promise to denuclearize, he wins the Negotiator label. Even gets a Nobel Peace Prize. If he fails, he's just another chump in a long line of leaders that thought they were going to get more than empty promises from a NK dictator. The proof won't play out for a good long while, in the meantime this is photo-op and political speculation.

    ?


    • #32
      Originally posted by radcentr View Post
      An impressive claim. Let's see if it plays out. Link:

      https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/06/12...uclearization/

      The possibility that the verification process fails, is very real. This point has already been brought up (and dismissed) more than once, so I'll leave it at that.

      The other point is Reagan's wonderfulness in foreign policy. Setting up a new commerce triangle of Cocaine, Weapons and Deals with Dictators is a failure, not a success in Central America. He gets partial credit for bringing down the Soviet Empire, although he arguably did less heavy lifting than Russian Grandmothers, but he did maintain his opposition to the Soviets despite their offers to morph into "communism lite". The replacement for Soviet Decay eventually was neo-Czarist Oligarchy in Decay, but there was little the US could have done about that.

      If Trump actually shows proof -both documentation and inspection teams demonstrate NK followed thru on their promise to denuclearize, he wins the Negotiator label. Even gets a Nobel Peace Prize. If he fails, he's just another chump in a long line of leaders that thought they were going to get more than empty promises from a NK dictator. The proof won't play out for a good long while, in the meantime this is photo-op and political speculation.
      There's a lot of progress to yet be made, that is true. No one, not even the president thought this could be completely solved in one day.

      I'll also mention that snopes reputation has been tarnished so badly that few take them as a serious source of good information today.

      Just thought it worth mentioning.

      ?


      • #33
        Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
        China is having the last laugh some say.

        I don't think that's reality, some do.

        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Korea could thumb its nose at us because it was protected by China. So, first, Trump removed that protection by going after China. The astute Sundance at Conservative Treehouse has been pointing out for months that the trade pressure on China was the prerequisite to movement on Korea. Our expert diplomats and analysts still don't talk about this big picture.

        Kim came to the table because Trump forced him to. North Korea was made to understand quite thoroughly and clearly that its grandstanding with nukes was over. Being clear was the first step to success.

        Trump reversed Kim's motivation 100%. Kim thought the nukes were his one ticket to security. Trump showed him that the nukes are his ticket to oblivion. That is why there is reason for optimism that this is not going to be the useless nuclear diplomacy we have had since Clinton.

        Kim was shown he had two choices: give up or be destroyed. His only open question was how North Korea would be destroyed slowly through devastating economic sanctions, or suddenly, by U.S. military might. The timetable would be chosen by President Trump.

        Trump won because of certain New Yorker traits he has in abundance not accepting BS, not caring what other people think, not being afraid of a fight.

        While critics howled, Trump became more and more menacing. That ranged from offensive name-calling to military exercises in the Pacific. This was not a Twitter war; it was real war. It is almost exactly a year since Trump sent the third carrier battle group into the western Pacific. It is said that when the U.S. sends one or two carriers, it is a show of strength. Sending out a third carrier means war. Kim had never received that message before.

        Past presidents put economic sanctions on North Korea kinda, sorta. Only so far as China allowed, which was just far enough to keep Korea misbehaving. Trump doesn't do kinda, sorta. For the first time, we enforced sanctions. All it took was the balls to stand up to China. That was another Trump first.

        When the usual Chinese businesses continued to support the North Korea economy, China found its biggest banks threatened with exclusion from the American market. Two small Chinese banks were shut out of the U.S. as a sign of seriousness. That was the end of China thumbing its nose at our sanctions.

        The Chinese central bank sent out the message to obey U.S. sanctions on North Korea. Funds propping up the North Korea economy were shut off.

        Showing Trump's mastery of standard diplomacy as well, we knuckled China to get on board with a U.S.-drafted U.N. Security Council resolution that required member-states to inspect and impound any vessel in their port breaking sanctions on North Korea. The resolution was passed unanimously.

        With this infusion of backbone, South Korea was empowered. When it caught a Hong Kong-flagged tanker violating the oil embargo, the tanker was confiscated. China was silent.

        Kim was facing ruin sure ruin with nuclear weapons, the possibility of survival if he gives them up.

        There was one major stumbling block remaining, a holdover from the diplomacy of the past administration: the haunting example of Libya. The Obama-Clinton geniuses broke the agreement we had made with Gaddafi, to leave him alone if he gave up his weapons. Obama's decision to depose Gaddafi make it almost impossible for any dictator to trust us and negotiate denuclearization. Vice President Pence turned the lesson around by telling Kim, if he didn't agree to no nukes, he would have the same fate as Gaddafi.

        Kim immediately retaliated, calling Vice President Pence a "political dummy," "unbridled and impudent," and threatening us with a "nuclear showdown."

        Big mistake. The U.S. does not have to blink at threats from a squirt like North Korea. Our experts don't know this. Trump does. He called off the meeting. He made it clear that the U.S. would not tolerate threats from Rocket Man. Trump is not accepting a reciprocal relationship. Kim cannot be rude or make threats. We can. Trump was his usual blunt self: "You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used."

        That is what tough looks like. That is how a responsible president behaves when he sees a small country threatening international stability and the safety of our own nation.

        That is what happens when a president understands we are a powerful country and how to use that power.

        That is how you win.



        https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...rth_korea.html

        Oh yes, the Chinese are indeed peeing in their pants hearing about the "success" from Singapore ----out of overyjoy. Because they got what they wanted and that no US president had EVER even offered ---without them or their puppet Kim making ANY significant concessions. You cant possibly be that naive.



        https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...a-summit-china


        Nobody greeted the news from Singapore with more delight than China. For years, Chinese officials have urged Trump to freeze military exercises in South Korea, which Beijing regards as a threatening gesture in its neighborhood. Shortly after the announcement, the Global Times, a nationalist state newspaper in Beijing, hailed Trumps move in an editorial headlined End of War Games Will Be a Big Step Forward for Peninsula. Elizabeth Economy, a China specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations, told me, The Chinese are breathing a deep sigh of relief. They got what they most wanted. She added, And, best of all, it came out of President Trumps mouth. The Chinese didnt even have to rely on Kim Jong Un to do their bidding.



        And the stakes that Trump has raised himself ( "Deal of the century") mean that he will continue to rely on China. He can cuddle Kim for the cameras in the White House rose garden if he wants and promise him five Trump Towers in every city of his starving country. Dismantling of the nuclear program will take place if China approves. Or not.
        If Trump can still pull this off, than Id sign up to giving him the Nobel price. But as observers we should start by dismantling the language. He has not "won" or "achieved" anything. And most certainly he doesnt have a deal (yet?). He has given away a lot of political capital and credibility in advance and recieved a declaration of intent ( of the sort that Kim has broken multiple times).
        Trump himself ( and Pompeo) have many times promised to "get in tough" and to come back with nothing else but "comprehensive, complete and verifiable" denuclearization. That is the standard by that they have to accept to be measured. So far, nothing of the sort. If they can still turn the gamble, more power to them. If not (and that is what historical experience would suggest), than the "greatest dealmaker of all times" will have his pants torn down. Like a couple of his predecessors. And the fear of the latter is a card that the Chinese will know how to play in their favour.
        Trumps non-coordinated suspension of military drills with South Korea, his hinting at a complete pullout plus his bypassing of Japan ( whose concerns obviously play no role in the document) force regional US Allies to rethink their security options and also their relation with China. That is what Bejing cares about. Not wether Trump gets friendly TV coverage along the way ( that could be forgotten in a while).
        Xi Jinping has neither approaching mid-term elections nor a critical press to fear, only long-term plans. Stay tuned.
        Last edited by Voland; 1 week ago.

        ?


        • #34
          Originally posted by radcentr View Post


          If Trump actually shows proof -both documentation and inspection teams demonstrate NK followed thru on their promise to denuclearize, he wins the Negotiator label. Even gets a Nobel Peace Prize. If he fails, he's just another chump in a long line of leaders that thought they were going to get more than empty promises from a NK dictator. The proof won't play out for a good long while, in the meantime this is photo-op and political speculation.


          Well, that somehow reminds me of George W. Bushs declaration of trust -- in Wladimir Putin of all cases. "I looked the man in the eye, and I could see his soul".
          While I do not consider Trump "my cup of tea", I would prefer if I am wrong.

          ?


          • #35
            Originally posted by Voland View Post



            Well, that somehow reminds me of George W. Bushs declaration of trust -- in Wladimir Putin of all cases. "I looked the man in the eye, and I could see his soul".
            While I do not consider Trump "my cup of tea", I would prefer if I am wrong.
            STILL, as Radcentr said, IF Trump [is successful], then he wins (if not your support, at least a Nobel Peace Prize)... IF he is [not successful], then he is a chump.

            ?


            • #36
              Originally posted by Voland View Post
              Oh yes, the Chinese are indeed peeing in their pants hearing about the "success" from Singapore ----out of overyjoy. Because they got what they wanted and that no US president had EVER even offered ---without them or their puppet Kim making ANY significant concessions. You cant possibly be that naive.

              https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...a-summit-china

              Nobody greeted the news from Singapore with more delight than China. For years, Chinese officials have urged Trump to freeze military exercises in South Korea, which Beijing regards as a threatening gesture in its neighborhood. Shortly after the announcement, the Global Times, a nationalist state newspaper in Beijing, hailed Trumps move in an editorial headlined End of War Games Will Be a Big Step Forward for Peninsula. Elizabeth Economy, a China specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations, told me, The Chinese are breathing a deep sigh of relief. They got what they most wanted. She added, And, best of all, it came out of President Trumps mouth. The Chinese didnt even have to rely on Kim Jong Un to do their bidding.

              And the stakes that Trump has raised himself ( "Deal of the century") mean that he will continue to rely on China. He can cuddle Kim for the cameras in the White House rose garden if he wants and promise him five Trump Towers in every city of his starving country. Dismantling of the nuclear program will take place if China approves. Or not.
              If Trump can still pull this off, than Id sign up to giving him the Nobel price. But as observers we should start by dismantling the language. He has not "won" or "achieved" anything. And most certainly he doesnt have a deal (yet?). He has given away a lot of political capital and credibility in advance and recieved a declaration of intent ( of the sort that Kim has broken multiple times).
              Trump himself ( and Pompeo) have many times promised to "get in tough" and to come back with nothing else but "comprehensive, complete and verifiable" denuclearization. That is the standard by that they have to accept to be measured. So far, nothing of the sort. If they can still turn the gamble, more power to them. If not (and that is what historical experience would suggest), than the "greatest dealmaker of all times" will have his pants torn down. Like a couple of his predecessors. And the fear of the latter is a card that the Chinese will know how to play in their favour.
              Trumps non-coordinated suspension of military drills with South Korea, his hinting at a complete pullout plus his bypassing of Japan ( whose concerns obviously play no role in the document) force regional US Allies to rethink their security options and also their relation with China. That is what Bejing cares about. Not wether Trump gets friendly TV coverage along the way ( that could be forgotten in a while).
              Xi Jinping has neither approaching mid-term elections nor a critical press to fear, only long-term plans. Stay tuned.
              Again, as I've wondered before, if this were a hilary or an obama ... would we be hearing different stories ?? ... again, I have to wonder.

              I seriously suspect we wouldn't be.

              But this is that "nasty trump fellow," we don't like him.

              So, we'll find ways to speak negatively of everything he says and does. ., especially if it's things our heroes obama and hilary would never have even attempted ! LOL

              You write; "But as observers we should start by dismantling the language. He has not "won" or "achieved" anything"

              ...and that just isn't true. President Trump has accomplished a great deal. Yes, it's in the beginning phases, but it's a start no one else has accomplished. A necessary beginning if we're ever to hope for something less than another war.

              ?


              • #37
                Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                Again, as I've wondered before, if this were a hilary or an obama ... would we be hearing different stories ?? ... again, I have to wonder.

                I seriously suspect we wouldn't be.

                But this is that "nasty trump fellow," we don't like him.

                So, we'll find ways to speak negatively of everything he says and does. ., especially if it's things our heroes obama and hilary would never have even attempted ! LOL

                You write; "But as observers we should start by dismantling the language. He has not "won" or "achieved" anything"

                ...and that just isn't true. President Trump has accomplished a great deal. Yes, it's in the beginning phases, but it's a start no one else has accomplished. A necessary beginning if we're ever to hope for something less than another war.
                I thought it was hilarious last night watching clips of Sean Hannity raving about Obama meeting with dictators without preconditions. I guess it's different when you are talking about the master deal maker.https://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/1710088...rvatives-obama

                ?


                • #38
                  Originally posted by redrover View Post
                  I thought it was hilarious last night watching clips of Sean Hannity raving about Obama meeting with dictators without preconditions. I guess it's different when you are talking about the master deal maker.https://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/1710088...rvatives-obama
                  With, without, preconditions.. etc. no matter. The deal went down.

                  Your article is a bit dated - Mar 9, 2018

                  In it is stated;

                  Im not certain why meeting with Kim without preconditions is suddenly a grand coup when we would have gone nuts had Obama done the same, said conservative pundit Ben Shapiro, who criticized Obama back in 2009 and is now often critical of Trump."

                  and;

                  "Its unclear what Trumps meeting will consist of, or what it means for Americas foreign policy strategy with regards to North Korea since last nights announcement, the administration has walked back some of Trumps statements and tried to make it clear that the meeting, scheduled to perhaps take place before May, should not be read as a negotiation or an agreement, or a move toward demilitarization on the Korean Peninsula."

                  It occurred with the current president. That being your favorite man Trump !

                  Obama didn't do it. He either couldn't, wouldn't or just wanted to talk about it, it doesn't matter. He didn't get it accomplished.

                  And again, as I've wondered before, if this were a hilary or an obama ... would we be hearing different stories ?? Would we be seeing these criticisms ... again, I have to wonder.

                  I seriously suspect we wouldn't be.

                  I think we would have been hearing decades worth of praise spoken and written about this accomplishment.

                  But this is that "nasty trump fellow," we don't like him.

                  So, we'll find ways to speak negatively of everything he says and does. ., especially if it's things our heroes obama and hilary would never have even attempted, beyond talking about.

                  ?


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                    With, without, preconditions.. etc. no matter. The deal went down.

                    Your article is a bit dated - Mar 9, 2018

                    In it is stated;

                    Im not certain why meeting with Kim without preconditions is suddenly a grand coup when we would have gone nuts had Obama done the same, said conservative pundit Ben Shapiro, who criticized Obama back in 2009 and is now often critical of Trump."

                    and;

                    "Its unclear what Trumps meeting will consist of, or what it means for Americas foreign policy strategy with regards to North Korea since last nights announcement, the administration has walked back some of Trumps statements and tried to make it clear that the meeting, scheduled to perhaps take place before May, should not be read as a negotiation or an agreement, or a move toward demilitarization on the Korean Peninsula."

                    It occurred with the current president. That being your favorite man Trump !

                    Obama didn't do it. He either couldn't, wouldn't or just wanted to talk about it, it doesn't matter. He didn't get it accomplished.

                    And again, as I've wondered before, if this were a hilary or an obama ... would we be hearing different stories ?? Would we be seeing these criticisms ... again, I have to wonder.

                    I seriously suspect we wouldn't be.

                    I think we would have been hearing decades worth of praise spoken and written about this accomplishment.

                    But this is that "nasty trump fellow," we don't like him.

                    So, we'll find ways to speak negatively of everything he says and does. ., especially if it's things our heroes obama and hilary would never have even attempted, beyond talking about.
                    I'm not like you and DavidSF I don't believe in miracles.

                    ?


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by redrover View Post

                      I'm not like you and DavidSF I don't believe in miracles.
                      IF you believe that progress on this would be an actual "miracle."

                      I don't think it would be.

                      ?


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                        IF you believe that progress on this would be an actual "miracle."

                        I don't think it would be.
                        Trump actually doing something that has a happy ending is as likely as a monkey typing out the complete works of Shakespeare. A miracle..

                        ?


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by redrover View Post

                          Trump actually doing something that has a happy ending is as likely as a monkey typing out the complete works of Shakespeare. A miracle..
                          Oh.

                          Oh yes, I forgot. Trumps a dummy. What was I thinking ?

                          ?


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
                            I also know they had a pleasant dinner of beef short ribs and baked Cod ... without rancor or finger-pointing. Just two heads of state eating and enjoying a meal.
                            At least Trump took home some valuable lesson from Kim a man who has imprisoned 120 thousand people while subjecting them to torture and rape. Trump is already working hard to implement every thing he learned They sure hit it off on a personal level and why wouldn't they they are both monsters.I may be giving you guys a break for a couple of days because I want to start bombarding my senators with things like this. You are a US senator isn't there anything you can do to check this inhuman monster?

                            ?


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by redrover View Post
                              At least Trump took home some valuable lesson from Kim a man who has imprisoned 120 thousand people while subjecting them to torture and rape. Trump is already working hard to implement every thing he learned They sure hit it off on a personal level and why wouldn't they they are both monsters.I may be giving you guys a break for a couple of days because I want to start bombarding my senators with things like this. You are a US senator isn't there anything you can do to check this inhuman monster?
                              There are a few "senators" maybe that will actually read such goofy crap from you..

                              Maybe.

                              But yes, by all means do as much as you can to get rid of your Trump monster. Write those letters, send those e-mails, make those phone calls.

                              At least you'll know you did what you could.

                              See ya when you get back. Hope you feel much better then.

                              ?


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                                There are a few "senators" maybe that will actually read such goofy crap from you..

                                Maybe.

                                But yes, by all means do as much as you can to get rid of your Trump monster. Write those letters, send those e-mails, make those phone calls.

                                At least you'll know you did what you could.

                                See ya when you get back. Hope you feel much better then.
                                Letters written and sent. Here is some more goofy crap for you. This would have been better in my Memorial day thread but that got killed. This at least has to do withKorea and getting killed. Goofy Trump is saying that the parents of Korean War veterans have approached him about getting the remains of their sons returned. We know Trump lies about virtually everything but these kind of lies rankle me more than his every day lies.I imagine next week he'll be telling us he was approached by the parents of World war one veterans looking for the remains of there sons. If that flys with his idiot base you can bet the week after that it will be the parents of Spanish American war veterans. Of course David and Captain will believe it because they believe in miracles. The real miracle would be that Trump actually told the truth for 5 hours a day.http://theweek.com/speedreads/779029...heyd-least-100

                                ?

                                Working...
                                X