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Trump renews his racist attacks on black athletes

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  • #46
    Originally posted by radcentr View Post
    That is true. And lefty websites like Vox agree. Link:
    https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/2...anthem-protest

    -Either Trump knew about the constitutional background, or he was playing to his base. I'll vote for the latter.
    Probably the best option.

    Given the most likely reasons behind these bonehead millionaires kneeling to make a political statement at . .. a football game ?

    I doubt people wanting to watch a football game are much interested in political matters LOL

    Obviously these fellows aren't geniuses, so let 'em kneel, stand on their heads or do a chicken dance. The president should have just ignored, or at most laughed at their antics.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #47
      Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

      Probably the best option.

      Given the most likely reasons behind these bonehead millionaires kneeling to make a political statement at . .. a football game ?

      I doubt people wanting to watch a football game are much interested in political matters LOL

      Obviously these fellows aren't geniuses, so let 'em kneel, stand on their heads or do a chicken dance. The president should have just ignored, or at most laughed at their antics.
      Were I Trump's political adviser and able to go back in the "what if" time machine, I would have supported him saying something similar to what he did say. It would have been toned down a bit, but Trump was consistent with his position -that of wrapping himself in the flag on all matters political and not.

      Any other comments on what players or owners should do is separate (and less important IMO). OTOH, I'd like to see what a "lefty" or "principled" owner could do competing with a "righty" or "toady" owner. That is, would it make any difference in team rank if players were separated from their contracts due to "shocking" BLM support, then they were picked up by lefty or principled owners? Will it make a difference in fan support?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #48
        Originally posted by radcentr View Post
        Were I Trump's political adviser and able to go back in the "what if" time machine, I would have supported him saying something similar to what he did say. It would have been toned down a bit, but Trump was consistent with his position -that of wrapping himself in the flag on all matters political and not.

        Any other comments on what players or owners should do is separate (and less important IMO). OTOH, I'd like to see what a "lefty" or "principled" owner could do competing with a "righty" or "toady" owner. That is, would it make any difference in team rank if players were separated from their contracts due to "shocking" BLM support, then they were picked up by lefty or principled owners? Will it make a difference in fan support?
        I'll say it again in agreement with you, Rad: Were I Trump's political adviser, first thing I would do would be to delete his twitter account. His shoot-from-the-hip manner does not fit well with the ready availability of a world-wide message board like Twitter.

        My opinion of the football players is, they are not protesting anything meaningful: They are spoiled little bitches who have been told "no" by the president and they are only kneeling, at this point, because of it: Had Trump kept his tweets silent, this episode would be over... and likely long forgotten.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #49
          Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

          I'll say it again in agreement with you, Rad: Were I Trump's political adviser, first thing I would do would be to delete his twitter account. His shoot-from-the-hip manner does not fit well with the ready availability of a world-wide message board like Twitter.

          My opinion of the football players is, they are not protesting anything meaningful: They are spoiled little bitches who have been told "no" by the president and they are only kneeling, at this point, because of it: Had Trump kept his tweets silent, this episode would be over... and likely long forgotten.
          While it is true professional athletes may have more disposable income to spend on bling than most of us but many of them do have a social conscience being very generous with their time and money.I think the reaon for taking a knee is a valid issue. I think Trump has twisted it to suit his own selfish agenda.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #50
            Originally posted by redrover View Post

            While it is true professional athletes may have more disposable income to spend on bling than most of us but many of them do have a social conscience being very generous with their time and money.I think the reaon for taking a knee is a valid issue. I think Trump has twisted it to suit his own selfish agenda.
            Spoken like a true, hate-filled, rhetoric-regurgitating liberal drone.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #51
              Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

              I'll say it again in agreement with you, Rad: Were I Trump's political adviser, first thing I would do would be to delete his twitter account. His shoot-from-the-hip manner does not fit well with the ready availability of a world-wide message board like Twitter.

              My opinion of the football players is, they are not protesting anything meaningful: They are spoiled little bitches who have been told "no" by the president and they are only kneeling, at this point, because of it: Had Trump kept his tweets silent, this episode would be over... and likely long forgotten.
              Trump's entire demeanor rub me the wrong way (as I have said), but I am also not willing to extrapolate my personal feelings to the electorate as a whole. While a healthy portion of the outcome of the 2016 race was Hillary running a bad campaign and losing, you can't argue with the fact that all the things that the conventional political wisdom said were politically disqualifying about Trump (like his tendency towards crass, hyperbolic, oversensitive, punching down on Twitter) were at worst, not as disqualifying as presumed, and may even have been a key ingredient to his success. If it was at all the later, I think it is something rather unique to Trump (in that it is actually, for good or ill, him being "authentic") that would not be effectively replicated by others.

              I have a pretty good track record over the last 30 years of predicting national elections (calling Presidential races, House/Senate outcomes). In fact, the 2016 race (Presidential, I nailed my House/Senate predictions) was the anomaly. I (like most everyone) did not expect Trump to win. However, I was never completely dismissive that Trump couldn't win (this is why my boss thinks I am a secrete Trump enthusiast). I always said that I felt Trump might be uniquely suited to running against her, and not to discount the possibility that he could win.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #52
                Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

                Trump's entire demeanor rub me the wrong way (as I have said), but I am also not willing to extrapolate my personal feelings to the electorate as a whole. While a healthy portion of the outcome of the 2016 race was Hillary running a bad campaign and losing, you can't argue with the fact that all the things that the conventional political wisdom said were politically disqualifying about Trump (like his tendency towards crass, hyperbolic, oversensitive, punching down on Twitter) were at worst, not as disqualifying as presumed, and may even have been a key ingredient to his success. If it was at all the later, I think it is something rather unique to Trump (in that it is actually, for good or ill, him being "authentic") that would not be effectively replicated by others.

                I have a pretty good track record over the last 30 years of predicting national elections (calling Presidential races, House/Senate outcomes). In fact, the 2016 race (Presidential, I nailed my House/Senate predictions) was the anomaly. I (like most everyone) did not expect Trump to win. However, I was never completely dismissive that Trump couldn't win (this is why my boss thinks I am a secrete Trump enthusiast). I always said that I felt Trump might be uniquely suited to running against her, and not to discount the possibility that he could win.
                I don't know if I'm taking it one step further, but I think this ... let's call it "brashness" of a U.S. president is refreshing from one perspective: NO one, not our friends nor our enemies, have expected Trump to be Trump. What successes he has had to date, and seems to me there have been several, can almost all be laid at the feet of a businessman in the Oval Office instead of a politician.

                It remains to be seen if he will be drawn over to the dark side. But in the meantime, will SOMEONE please take that twitter account away from him.

                Homer.gif

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

                  I don't know if I'm taking it one step further, but I think this ... let's call it "brashness" of a U.S. president is refreshing from one perspective: NO one, not our friends nor our enemies, have expected Trump to be Trump. What successes he has had to date, and seems to me there have been several, can almost all be laid at the feet of a businessman in the Oval Office instead of a politician.

                  It remains to be seen if he will be drawn over to the dark side. But in the meantime, will SOMEONE please take that twitter account away from him.

                  Homer.gif
                  Oh, I would agree that for many, there is what I would call a "guilty pleasure" aspect to Trumps demeanor. For me, even though I myself find his behavior and demeanor boorish I tend to take delight in how truly ass-over-tea kettle crazy it makes his detractors.

                  This is why I say that to the extent the collective political "wisdom" was that the entire nation found this as disqualifying as the entrenched political establishment did largely ignored the fact that to a certain extent a broad swath of the electorate liked that it pissed off those very people, and also viewed it as Trump being authentic. Hence the reason it did not ultimately prove to be disqualifying electorally. Had he not been up against such a genuinely shrill, unlikable, and inauthentic candidate as Hillary, who knows what may have been. Most political commentators found his inviting Bill's accusers to one of the debates as noxious...but my reaction was, why the hell not? And that was as someone who dislikes both Hillary and Trump.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post

                    Oh, I would agree that for many, there is what I would call a "guilty pleasure" aspect to Trumps demeanor. For me, even though I myself find his behavior and demeanor boorish I tend to take delight in how truly ass-over-tea kettle crazy it makes his detractors.
                    O.K., yes, I do have to concede this point as well. I do like how he incites that frothing at the mouth in the liberals.

                    Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post
                    This is why I say that to the extent the collective political "wisdom" was that the entire nation found this as disqualifying as the entrenched political establishment did largely ignored the fact that to a certain extent a broad swath of the electorate liked that it pissed off those very people, and also viewed it as Trump being authentic. Hence the reason it did not ultimately prove to be disqualifying electorally. Had he not been up against such a genuinely shrill, unlikable, and inauthentic candidate as Hillary, who knows what may have been. Most political commentators found his inviting Bill's accusers to one of the debates as noxious...but my reaction was, why the hell not? And that was as someone who dislikes both Hillary and Trump.
                    See, that's the part about Hillary that makes me crazy as well. Rather than simply admit she was a "...genuinely shrill, unlikable, and inauthentic candidate," the democrats and Hillary in particular keep dredging up all these other things to blame on her loss.

                    Face it democrats and other liberals: You backed a loser. Surprised as I was that she did actually lose the election that was hers to win, in retrospect, she was never going to win.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
                      O.K., yes, I do have to concede this point as well. I do like how he incites that frothing at the mouth in the liberals.


                      See, that's the part about Hillary that makes me crazy as well. Rather than simply admit she was a "...genuinely shrill, unlikable, and inauthentic candidate," the democrats and Hillary in particular keep dredging up all these other things to blame on her loss.

                      Face it democrats and other liberals: You backed a loser. Surprised as I was that she did actually lose the election that was hers to win, in retrospect, she was never going to win.
                      When the choice is between a shrill woman and a likeable crotch grabbing buffoon. The choice is easy.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post
                        Oh, I would agree that for many, there is what I would call a "guilty pleasure" aspect to Trumps demeanor. For me, even though I myself find his behavior and demeanor boorish I tend to take delight in how truly ass-over-tea kettle crazy it makes his detractors.
                        If it makes liberals go ape shirt bananas, this is good.

                        Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post
                        This is why I say that to the extent the collective political "wisdom" was that the entire nation found this as disqualifying as the entrenched political establishment did largely ignored the fact that to a certain extent a broad swath of the electorate liked that it pissed off those very people,
                        Exactly.

                        Originally posted by Marcus1124 View Post
                        and also viewed it as Trump being authentic. Hence the reason it did not ultimately prove to be disqualifying electorally. Had he not been up against such a genuinely shrill, unlikable, and inauthentic candidate as Hillary, who knows what may have been. Most political commentators found his inviting Bill's accusers to one of the debates as noxious...but my reaction was, why the hell not? And that was as someone who dislikes both Hillary and Trump.
                        Exactly right.

                        Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
                        ...
                        Face it democrats and other liberals: You backed a loser. Surprised as I was that she did actually lose the election that was hers to win, in retrospect, she was never going to win.
                        Thank Heavens.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by redrover View Post

                          When the choice is between a shrill woman and a likeable crotch grabbing buffoon. The choice is easy.
                          I don't care about shrill. I care about sellouts. The Clintons ran the DLC strategy, and it wasn't a mistake they corrected quickly. That went on for years. I was disappointed the D candidate for the WH lost, but the expectation is that the party corrects what caused that loss. The best-funded companies in the world have no place at the front of the line for political connections. They must be considered a neutral party first, then considered as a de facto independent state which can (and will) break contracts with gov't. entities if it suits them. Keep in mind, they have an overseas operation to handle a worst case scenario (losing a right to conduct business in the US).

                          The question then becomes, "do I only vote for a candidate that considers any Multi-national Corporation a potential enemy"? No, of course not. That old school socialist meme is worn out, not least because of all the self-proclaimed socialists who were multi-millionaire investors playing both sides. Any economic organization should be given a chance to live up to contracts it makes with any gov't. organization. That strategy is less dependable for the MNC, which can be fully trusted to bail on those contracts if they can cut costs relocating to another country. The GOP ignores the MNC caveat, still does. It depends on the WH to whine, threaten or do some other embarrassing thing to keep a MNC in the US. I expect that from the GOP, which equates MNC with Big Employer (and campaign supporter) until the End of Time. However, that blind strategy caught up to the Democrats in 2016. It doesn't work for the socialist wing of the D party, and it also turned off more than a few moderates.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                            I don't care about shrill. I care about sellouts. The Clintons ran the DLC strategy, and it wasn't a mistake they corrected quickly. That went on for years. I was disappointed the D candidate for the WH lost, but the expectation is that the party corrects what caused that loss. The best-funded companies in the world have no place at the front of the line for political connections. They must be considered a neutral party first, then considered as a de facto independent state which can (and will) break contracts with gov't. entities if it suits them. Keep in mind, they have an overseas operation to handle a worst case scenario (losing a right to conduct business in the US).

                            The question then becomes, "do I only vote for a candidate that considers any Multi-national Corporation a potential enemy"? No, of course not. That old school socialist meme is worn out, not least because of all the self-proclaimed socialists who were multi-millionaire investors playing both sides. Any economic organization should be given a chance to live up to contracts it makes with any gov't. organization. That strategy is less dependable for the MNC, which can be fully trusted to bail on those contracts if they can cut costs relocating to another country. The GOP ignores the MNC caveat, still does. It depends on the WH to whine, threaten or do some other embarrassing thing to keep a MNC in the US. I expect that from the GOP, which equates MNC with Big Employer (and campaign supporter) until the End of Time. However, that blind strategy caught up to the Democrats in 2016. It doesn't work for the socialist wing of the D party, and it also turned off more than a few moderates.
                            Over the past few years I've found myself drifting into the globalist camp and away from anything that smacks of nationalism.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by redrover View Post

                              Over the past few years I've found myself drifting into the globalist camp and away from anything that smacks of nationalism.
                              Yes, the globalist camp is also called "neoliberals". That went over about as well as "neoconservative". I supported the neoliberal position, once upon a time. It fails, mainly because it is used as a political vehicle to favor one sector for economic development (very large capitalist), over all others. While inviting a Rilly Big Company in to develop their patch of land and employ Lots of Citizens might seem like a good idea, it immediately fails when enuf Multi-national companies decide they should go elsewhere to lower production costs. The non-lazy solution, from the gov't. and domestic private sector side, is to favor long term employment, as well as a stable demographic for rural and urban employment. Big companies that pull out in less than one generation will destabilize both: Local plans for long term employment as well as rural/urban balance have no value and no meaning to the large scale, global capitalist. We cannot blame the MNC for this strategy, because they provide the world with such wonderful toys for a reasonable price. But globalists needed to deal with the independent status of the MNC. They failed.

                              Capitalism is fine and dandy, until it runs up against wide spread poverty, which has to be stabilized by other means before the large capitalist can operate a local free market. Basically, that is why I insist on the neutral gov't. consideration for the MNC until it has proven itself as a dependable long term employer, while all other sectors (public, private/medium sized capitalist, private non-profits) start with favorable status. The failure of the globalist (neoliberal) to enforce a neutral-first status on all MNC's is the principle reason neoliberalism is taking a back seat to Trade Wars (all over again). Other aspects of globalism (international treaties, development loans from IMF and BRIC, worldwide mockery of populists who wrap themselves in a given flag, etc), that's all good. But there is good reason to suspect one aspect of globalism -the MNC- because they have proven their strategy generally ignores long term employment at the local level.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                                Yes, the globalist camp is also called "neoliberals". That went over about as well as "neoconservative". I supported the neoliberal position, once upon a time. It fails, mainly because it is used as a political vehicle to favor one sector for economic development (very large capitalist), over all others. While inviting a Rilly Big Company in to develop their patch of land and employ Lots of Citizens might seem like a good idea, it immediately fails when enuf Multi-national companies decide they should go elsewhere to lower production costs. The non-lazy solution, from the gov't. and domestic private sector side, is to favor long term employment, as well as a stable demographic for rural and urban employment. Big companies that pull out in less than one generation will destabilize both: Local plans for long term employment as well as rural/urban balance have no value and no meaning to the large scale, global capitalist. We cannot blame the MNC for this strategy, because they provide the world with such wonderful toys for a reasonable price. But globalists needed to deal with the independent status of the MNC. They failed.

                                Capitalism is fine and dandy, until it runs up against wide spread poverty, which has to be stabilized by other means before the large capitalist can operate a local free market. Basically, that is why I insist on the neutral gov't. consideration for the MNC until it has proven itself as a dependable long term employer, while all other sectors (public, private/medium sized capitalist, private non-profits) start with favorable status. The failure of the globalist (neoliberal) to enforce a neutral-first status on all MNC's is the principle reason neoliberalism is taking a back seat to Trade Wars (all over again). Other aspects of globalism (international treaties, development loans from IMF and BRIC, worldwide mockery of populists who wrap themselves in a given flag, etc), that's all good. But there is good reason to suspect one aspect of globalism -the MNC- because they have proven their strategy generally ignores long term employment at the local level.
                                Thanks for the primer on globalism I Have a lot to learn. I think my big concern is this America first isolationism that Trump is promoting. I guess I was just thinking in terms of normal engagement with the world without the areas tht need fine tuning.

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