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  • #31
    Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

    I can see why you're unhappy. You have insurance LOL

    Insurance is where you pay and pay - for nothing - while being told you're getting something.

    Become an insurance agent ? Dang good money, now you know why ! And YOU won't have to ever worry about medical costs -grins-
    Become an insurance company executive for the big bucks. For catastrophic policies, remember that bankruptcy is still an option for the extra large bills, especially when unemployment is one of the conditions. Some consolation, I know : (

    The solution, with minimal gov't. interference, is removing interstate restrictions for non-profits to provide medical insurance and care. It will also be necessary to drop the lies; it is two tier coverage -most of us probably get basic coverage, while the best care is usually reserved for the wealthy. Pay off student loans -or better yet attach a 10 year public service agreement to medical school grads who went thru on a publicly funded scholarship (or just accumulated debt). If they work under a veteran specialist for the first few years, we'd have another few years' service with some top-notch specialists, before they cancel their debt & disappear into the private system (where the best income can be enjoyed). There's a few ideas out there for reducing costs for the majority of us, who can only afford subsidized health care. Gummint involvement would be audits of non-profits and subsidies/amortization of med student debt, rather than direct administration. It would require at least one proverbial gunshot delivered into the foot of for-profit providers, who no doubt have a network of lobbyists to prevent the "nonsense" I outlined.

    -In short, be prepared to continue suffering with the crappy medical coverage we now "enjoy".

    ?


    • #32
      Originally posted by radcentr View Post
      Become an insurance company executive for the big bucks. For catastrophic policies, remember that bankruptcy is still an option for the extra large bills, especially when unemployment is one of the conditions. Some consolation, I know : (

      The solution, with minimal gov't. interference, is removing interstate restrictions for non-profits to provide medical insurance and care. It will also be necessary to drop the lies; it is two tier coverage -most of us probably get basic coverage, while the best care is usually reserved for the wealthy. Pay off student loans -or better yet attach a 10 year public service agreement to medical school grads who went thru on a publicly funded scholarship (or just accumulated debt). If they work under a veteran specialist for the first few years, we'd have another few years' service with some top-notch specialists, before they cancel their debt & disappear into the private system (where the best income can be enjoyed). There's a few ideas out there for reducing costs for the majority of us, who can only afford subsidized health care. Gummint involvement would be audits of non-profits and subsidies/amortization of med student debt, rather than direct administration. It would require at least one proverbial gunshot delivered into the foot of for-profit providers, who no doubt have a network of lobbyists to prevent the "nonsense" I outlined.

      -In short, be prepared to continue suffering with the crappy medical coverage we now "enjoy".
      But I thought everybodies medical coverage was improved ???

      America once HAD the best medical care in the world.

      No longer.

      Thanks to socialists and their grand schemes.

      ?


      • #33
        Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

        But I thought everybodies medical coverage was improved ???

        America once HAD the best medical care in the world.

        No longer.

        Thanks to socialists and their grand schemes.
        If your understanding of "socialism" distorting medical care goes back a few decades, then at least you are consistent. Around 1982, if not earlier, is close to the time when an individual was last able to buy the best medical care in the world, without any subsidies from the public or private sector. Link:
        The 1980s saw the development of managed care, prompted by rapidly increasing healthcare costs and the emergence of self-insured employer plans. Managed cares ability to selectively contract revolutionized healthcare markets by introducing price competition and led to a backlash against managed care.
        http://www.ache.org/pubs/morrisey2253_chapter_1.pdf

        Of course, I never thought of Reagan as being a socialist, but maybe you have a history of Congressional Dems ramming the socialist agenda into health care? Starting with insurance, under FDR during the Great Depression. If you want to go back that far, maybe you have a point. A weak point, since that depression began during the GOP administration before FDR.

        ?


        • #34
          Originally posted by radcentr View Post
          If your understanding of "socialism" distorting medical care goes back a few decades, then at least you are consistent. Around 1982, if not earlier, is close to the time when an individual was last able to buy the best medical care in the world, without any subsidies from the public or private sector. Link:

          http://www.ache.org/pubs/morrisey2253_chapter_1.pdf

          Of course, I never thought of Reagan as being a socialist, but maybe you have a history of Congressional Dems ramming the socialist agenda into health care? Starting with insurance, under FDR during the Great Depression. If you want to go back that far, maybe you have a point. A weak point, since that depression began during the GOP administration before FDR.
          It HAS been a very long road to where we are now. Where we are now is that we have people openly boasting that they are socialists running for political office.... and winning !!

          Even though socialism is a dangerous failure always.

          As government gets more powerful, more in control of every aspect of our lives, socialism gets closer and closer.

          People that think the government giving them free stuff is something to seek, are foolish.

          People that think the government should take from the wealthy and give to THEM are foolish.

          Envy is often an item people destroy themselves and their society with.

          ?


          • #35
            Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

            It HAS been a very long road to where we are now. Where we are now is that we have people openly boasting that they are socialists running for political office.... and winning !!

            Even though socialism is a dangerous failure always.

            As government gets more powerful, more in control of every aspect of our lives, socialism gets closer and closer.

            People that think the government giving them free stuff is something to seek, are foolish.

            People that think the government should take from the wealthy and give to THEM are foolish.

            Envy is often an item people destroy themselves and their society with.
            Socialism -done properly- is when gov't. takes from everyone and gives to everyone. That is what must be done for a few programs, like military defense or law enforcement, but conservatives need to be reminded that gov't. isn't taking everything from everyone. It is taking what we call a "tax" (what some GOP folks call a "user fee"). After the anti-socialist conservatives figure out that a "tax" is the necessary cost of gov't., and that some services cannot be legally provided by for-profit, private business (fe, legal court decisions, police), they can get down to the business of maximizing the value of those services.

            -Claiming gov't. (aka socialist) services can be avoided altogether is a monumental waste of time. The cost for policing will be imposed on every citizen anyway; the conservative will pick up a lot more votes when they accept that, and try to maximize the value of socialist services. To counter the kumbaya wing of leftists (gov't. provides everything), the practical right needs to define what services are critical and best provided by the gov't. Pretending it is a very short list (mail, military, police) sounds inexpensive, but very few believe that. Make an honest list, then pitch efficient gov't.

            ?


            • #36
              Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              Socialism -done properly- is when gov't. takes from everyone and gives to everyone. That is what must be done for a few programs, like military defense or law enforcement, but conservatives need to be reminded that gov't. isn't taking everything from everyone. It is taking what we call a "tax" (what some GOP folks call a "user fee"). After the anti-socialist conservatives figure out that a "tax" is the necessary cost of gov't., and that some services cannot be legally provided by for-profit, private business (fe, legal court decisions, police), they can get down to the business of maximizing the value of those services.

              -Claiming gov't. (aka socialist) services can be avoided altogether is a monumental waste of time. The cost for policing will be imposed on every citizen anyway; the conservative will pick up a lot more votes when they accept that, and try to maximize the value of socialist services. To counter the kumbaya wing of leftists (gov't. provides everything), the practical right needs to define what services are critical and best provided by the gov't. Pretending it is a very short list (mail, military, police) sounds inexpensive, but very few believe that. Make an honest list, then pitch efficient gov't.
              Socialism can't not be done properly and work. Human nature does not allow for it. And the larger the community that socialism is imposed on, the more distant is the government from the needs and culture of the communities, and it creates rules that do not serve the individual or the majority. Meaning the socialist policies run by a government overseeing 308 million people, with 50 different states, with many sub-communities that have needs contrasting with others within the state, is ineffective. A small town with many like minded people may have it work effectively for a time, if they are all on board and share the same work ethics, but even then, as new people come to exist into that community, ethics will change therefore making their socialist model fail.

              It's not that the option is Federal Government or NO Government. We have State Governments that should be addressing many of the needs and responsibilities that our Federal Government has wrongfully taken on. Our Federal Government should be very limited while collecting tax dollars for as you say for (mail, military, and police), I'd add immigration and some interstate travel infrastructure. Our Federal Government was not designed to or meant to oversea all aspects of culture and prosperity. It was meant to keep us safe and protect the agreed upon common interests of the states.
              Last edited by msc; 2 weeks ago.

              ?


              • #37
                Originally posted by msc View Post

                Socialism can't not be done properly and work. Human nature does not allow for it. And the larger the community that socialism is imposed on, the more distant is the government from the needs and culture of the communities, and it creates rules that do not serve the individual or the majority. Meaning the socialist policies run by a government overseeing 308 million people, with 50 different states, with many sub-communities that have needs contrasting with others within the state, is ineffective. A small town with many like minded people may have it work effectively for a time, if they are all on board and share the same work ethics, but even then, as new people come to exist into that community, ethics will change therefore making their socialist model fail.

                It's not that the option is Federal Government or NO Government. We have State Governments that should be addressing many of the needs and responsibilities that our Federal Government has wrongfully taken on. Our Federal Government should be very limited while collecting tax dollars for as you say for (mail, military, and police), I'd add immigration and some interstate travel infrastructure. Our Federal Government was not designed to or meant to oversea all aspects of culture and prosperity. It was meant to keep us safe and protect the agreed upon common interests of the states.
                There are two extreme ends of socialism, and in between are the variations of socialism, some of which can function effectively in larger societies. The two extremes are communism (the state "knows all, sees all") and small group socialism (collectives/cooperatives) that hardly involves the government.

                Very few people believe in communism anymore, which is one reason some conservatives like to pitch the idea that communism is the only form of socialism. It's a one-stop tool to convince the gullible that everyone who accepts any form of socialism is a communist (or may as well be). As you note, smaller communities often pool resources successfully to make individual resources work for the whole group, but that breaks down as groups grow in size. That describes one failure in communism -the soviets, so called collectives of small work groups that were taken over by a much larger, "command" economy. In smaller groups, socialism can often work (fe"general welfare" on a state scale), and it doesn't necessarily mean gov't. control of the process, other than audits to ensure the group benefits, rather than individuals skimming off the top. That is basically how socialism will be integrated into the larger economy of the future: On a small to medium scale, both in numbers of people and geographical area. That provides more responsive service, with goals designed for local areas. One type allows organization for poor people seeking to pool resources (fe housing, food, essential stuff), another type would be locals (rich and poor alike) who have a common goal for their area.

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