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John Bolton fired

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  • John Bolton fired

    Another one gets his foot caught in Trump's revolving door. Who does Fox news have on the bench to serve as National Security secretary this week?https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-go/ar-AAH5GGB

  • #2
    Good riddance .

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
      Good riddance .
      That's what you get when you pick your national security advisors from seeing them on Fox. Wouldn't want to pick someone from the deep state. If you thought Bolton was bad hold onto your sombrero for the next one.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        The last time the US withdrew from the world stage into a more isolationist policy and position, the results eventually boiled over into the 9/11 attacks on the US.

        Are we going to be forced to endure that once again as we've not learned from history?

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Originally posted by redrover View Post

          That's what you get when you pick your national security advisors from seeing them on Fox. Wouldn't want to pick someone from the deep state. If you thought Bolton was bad hold onto your sombrero for the next one.
          I figure there is a method to what looks like madness. Given that trump has had a non neocon view for decades . Unlike the uber biased I think there is a method involved .

          Bolton was working against trump and that was expected. You can bet the pressure to continue idiotic policy has been constant. Obama yielded due to his weakness.

          It is possible trump is crazy but crazy like the proverbial fox. Time will tell years from now.

          Trump like other presidents came at the right time. To steer us on a saner course. For to continue on the same foreign policy and trade course is insanity.
          Last edited by Blue Doggy; 1 week ago.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

            I figure there is a method to what looks like madness. Given that trump has had a non neocon view for decades . Unlike the uber biased I think there is a method involved .

            Bolton was working against trump and that was expected. You can bet the pressure to continue idiotic policy has been constant. Obama yielded due to his weakness.

            It is possible trump is crazy but crazy like the proverbial fox. Time will tell years from now.

            Trump like other presidents came at the right time. To steer us on a saner course. For to continue on the same foreign policy and trade course is insanity.
            Well, at that level, if you disagree with the boss enough and / or it gets into the papers, what did you expect was going to happen? There can only be a single outcome. The boss wins.

            While I'm not in favor of constant entanglements in foreign conflicts, there is a price to pay for departing the world stage, from adopting a more isolationist posture, namely another 9/11 event.

            Thanks, but don't want another one of those. If that means we have to bomb the shit out of potential Taliban and the next Al Queda or ISIS before they can mount a threat in the homeland, so be it. Eventually the fever that is Militant Fundamentalist Islamic Ideology is simply going to run out of people or burn itself out, and that would be welcome throughout the world.

            Hey, go practice whatever religion you want, but leave everyone else the hell alone.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post

              Well, at that level, if you disagree with the boss enough and / or it gets into the papers, what did you expect was going to happen? There can only be a single outcome. The boss wins.

              While I'm not in favor of constant entanglements in foreign conflicts, there is a price to pay for departing the world stage, from adopting a more isolationist posture, namely another 9/11 event.

              Thanks, but don't want another one of those. If that means we have to bomb the shit out of potential Taliban and the next Al Queda or ISIS before they can mount a threat in the homeland, so be it. Eventually the fever that is Militant Fundamentalist Islamic Ideology is simply going to run out of people or burn itself out, and that would be welcome throughout the world.

              Hey, go practice whatever religion you want, but leave everyone else the hell alone.
              I dont remember that isolationism you speak of. Out cia has never let up so even if things looked quiet there was action in secret .

              The 911 attacks was not due to isolationism . A fundamentalist faction of islam came after us for our being in and on holy ground. These people were going after us and not for being isolationist but to the contrary.

              I thought this was well known.

              The attackers had stated reasons for those attacks. If msm took the time to inform . I doubt they did . We just stirred up a hornets nest given it involved a religion this time. In their minds they were doing what Allah wanted. Kamikazi attacks going straight to heaven. Serious people.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                I dont remember that isolationism you speak of. Out cia has never let up so even if things looked quiet there was action in secret .

                The 911 attacks was not due to isolationism . A fundamentalist faction of islam came after us for our being in and on holy ground. These people were going after us and not for being isolationist but to the contrary.

                I thought this was well known.

                The attackers had stated reasons for those attacks. If msm took the time to inform . I doubt they did . We just stirred up a hornets nest given it involved a religion this time. In their minds they were doing what Allah wanted. Kamikazi attacks going straight to heaven. Serious people.
                Bolton was a well known entity when Trump picked him. My guess is that Trump doesn't have many choices because you have to be crazy to sign onto the chaos.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                  I dont remember that isolationism you speak of. Out cia has never let up so even if things looked quiet there was action in secret .

                  The 911 attacks was not due to isolationism . A fundamentalist faction of islam came after us for our being in and on holy ground. These people were going after us and not for being isolationist but to the contrary.

                  I thought this was well known.

                  The attackers had stated reasons for those attacks. If msm took the time to inform . I doubt they did . We just stirred up a hornets nest given it involved a religion this time. In their minds they were doing what Allah wanted. Kamikazi attacks going straight to heaven. Serious people.
                  The isolationism goes back to the Clinton administration where he lobbed a few cruise missiles into various Islamic terrorist nests in the Middle East, and didn't engage much further than that.
                  Bill Clinton's terrorism strategy led to 9/11. Hillary Clinton's is ...
                  https://www.washingtonpost.com › opinions › 2016/09/12 Sep 12, 2016 - Hillary Clinton recently explained her plan to deal with the Islamic State. ... Why were terrorists emboldened to attack us on 9/11? Because, during Bill Clinton's eight years in office, they had waged a virtually unimpeded ... National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United ...
                  https://govinfo.library.unt.edu › report

                  President Bill Clinton's counterterrorism Presidential Decision Directives in 1995 ... was then running the Islamic Extremist Branch of the Counterterrorist Center. Timeline of al-Qaeda attacks - Wikipedia
                  https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks
                  The following is a list of attacks which have been carried out by Al-Qaeda. ... Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility for the attack in 1998. ... killed in the attacks, making them the deadliest act of terrorism to occur in history, and more than .... December 11, 2007 Algiers bombings claimed by al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb ...

                  2000s · ‎2001 · ‎2007 · ‎2008 Operation Infinite Reach - Wikipedia
                  https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Operation_Infinite_Reach Operation Infinite Reach was the codename for American cruise missile strikes on al-Qaeda bases in Khost, Afghanistan, and the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum, Sudan, on August 20, 1998. The attacks, launched by the U.S. Navy, were ordered by President Bill Clinton in ... U.S. action in response to a terrorist attack since the 1986 bombing of Libya, ...

                  When the US withdraws from the world stage, when it doesn't engage, the resulting vacuum is filled by someone, and in most recent examples, since Clinton's administration, it was Fundamentalist Islamic extremist militants. During the Obama administration, Putin detected the same weakness, the same unwillingness to engage, and took the Crimea.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post

                    The isolationism goes back to the Clinton administration where he lobbed a few cruise missiles into various Islamic terrorist nests in the Middle East, and didn't engage much further than that.
                    Bill Clinton's terrorism strategy led to 9/11. Hillary Clinton's is ...
                    https://www.washingtonpost.com › opinions › 2016/09/12 Sep 12, 2016 - Hillary Clinton recently explained her plan to deal with the Islamic State. ... Why were terrorists emboldened to attack us on 9/11? Because, during Bill Clinton's eight years in office, they had waged a virtually unimpeded ... National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United ...
                    https://govinfo.library.unt.edu › report

                    President Bill Clinton's counterterrorism Presidential Decision Directives in 1995 ... was then running the Islamic Extremist Branch of the Counterterrorist Center. Timeline of al-Qaeda attacks - Wikipedia
                    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Timeline_of_al-Qaeda_attacks
                    The following is a list of attacks which have been carried out by Al-Qaeda. ... Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility for the attack in 1998. ... killed in the attacks, making them the deadliest act of terrorism to occur in history, and more than .... December 11, 2007 Algiers bombings claimed by al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb ...

                    2000s · ‎2001 · ‎2007 · ‎2008 Operation Infinite Reach - Wikipedia
                    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Operation_Infinite_Reach Operation Infinite Reach was the codename for American cruise missile strikes on al-Qaeda bases in Khost, Afghanistan, and the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum, Sudan, on August 20, 1998. The attacks, launched by the U.S. Navy, were ordered by President Bill Clinton in ... U.S. action in response to a terrorist attack since the 1986 bombing of Libya, ...



                    When the US withdraws from the world stage, when it doesn't engage, the resulting vacuum is filled by someone, and in most recent examples, since Clinton's administration, it was Fundamentalist Islamic extremist militants. During the Obama administration, Putin detected the same weakness, the same unwillingness to engage, and took the Crimea.
                    And I still dont perceive us being isolationist from the big view. But to the contrary. Lulls in perpetual war for perpetual peace isnt isolationism surely.

                    The war mongering should only happen in circumstances like we saw with Germany and that was why iinternational wad written as it happened at the end of ww2.

                    So the US does have a role in stopping another world threat that seeks to conquer other nations. But it would be rare . We look like a nation that international law was written to prevent.

                    What we have done in the ME since 911 has been stupidly so iirresponsible on every front. It can't be fractionally justified. I meant..rationally.

                    We invaded sovereign nations and created worse cconditions at trillions in cost and great costs in lives. This anti isolationism is a series of grand screw ups that I hope has stopped. It has made us less safe and fermented extra growth of radical islam.

                    Being ready to take on the next Hitler is good. Being the world's police force is crazy and is the kind of policy that kills empires. Even as it regularly creates mmore death and suffering alonh with greater problems and disorder.

                    I just dont see how it can be rationally and reasonably justifed.To me it just looks to be a very evil thing that gets repeated over and over. I dont want my nnation to do evil so damned often. But hard for some of us to see deeply enough. We have sstopped putting the shoe on the other foot.

                    We would sooner blow our feet off rather than to do the shoe exch.

                    Imo we would see an end to our invading by bringing back the draft. For not drafting has enabled iirresponsible men to wage wars of deadly stupidity.
                    Last edited by Blue Doggy; 5 days ago.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post

                      And I still dont perceive us being isolationist from the big view. But to the contrary. Lulls in perpetual war for perpetual peace isnt isolationism surely.

                      The war mongering should only happen in circumstances like we saw with Germany and that was why iinternational wad written as it happened at the end of ww2.

                      So the US does have a role in stopping another world threat that seeks to conquer other nations. But it would be rare . We look like a nation that international law was written to prevent.
                      So in other words, you'd allow the Islamic extremists conduct a terrorism attack on the US on US soil before you'd respond? Rather than putting an ounce of preventative measures before hand?

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post

                        So in other words, you'd allow the Islamic extremists conduct a terrorism attack on the US on US soil before you'd respond? Rather than putting an ounce of preventative measures before hand?
                        And here is what president whack-job has to say about winning in Afghanistan. It would be easy, but. https://thehollywoodunlocked.com/tru...illion-people/

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by redrover View Post

                          And here is what president whack-job has to say about winning in Afghanistan. It would be easy, but. https://thehollywoodunlocked.com/tru...illion-people/
                          The history of Afghanistan would dispute the idea that a foreign military can 'win' there (depends on what the definition of the goals are).

                          The US has been mired in this conflict some 18 years.
                          Before that the Russians got mired in there as well, and withdrew.
                          Before that wasn't it the British that did the same?
                          And even others before them.

                          The problem is that this is also where the fundamentalist Islamic militants congregate and initiate their terrorist acts from. Perhaps the most sensible approach is to maintain intelligence flow, and periodically send in aircraft to bomb them?
                          .
                          US air force carpet-bombs 'Isis-infested island' in Iraq | The ...
                          https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East
                          3 days ago - The US air force has released a video showing fighter jets carpet-bombing an island it said was “infested” with Isis fighters. The footage shows the small, tree-covered Qanus Island, in Iraq’s Saladin province, peppered with a series of huge explosions in quick succession.

                          US obliterates 'Isil-infested island' with 40 tonnes of bombs
                          https://www.telegraph.co.uk › News
                          3 days ago - Bombs were dropped on Qanus Island in the Tigris River, in Iraq, ... It had become a "major transit hub" for Isis moving from Syria and the ...


                          It would prevent the US from becoming mired in a ground campaign, would reduce risk to US service personnel, but rather doubtful that it would hold the possibility of keeping the Islamic terrorism problem under control.

                          So how do you effectively combat those who's religion it is to exterminate innocent people?
                          Last edited by eohrnberger; 5 days ago.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post

                            The history of Afghanistan would dispute the idea that a foreign military can 'win' there (depends on what the definition of the goals are).

                            The US has been mired in this conflict some 18 years.
                            Before that the Russians got mired in there as well, and withdrew.
                            Before that wasn't it the British that did the same?
                            And even others before them.

                            The problem is that this is also where the fundamentalist Islamic militants congregate and initiate their terrorist acts from. Perhaps the most sensible approach is to maintain intelligence flow, and periodically send in aircraft to bomb them?
                            .
                            US air force carpet-bombs 'Isis-infested island' in Iraq | The ...
                            https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East
                            3 days ago - The US air force has released a video showing fighter jets carpet-bombing an island it said was “infested” with Isis fighters. The footage shows the small, tree-covered Qanus Island, in Iraq’s Saladin province, peppered with a series of huge explosions in quick succession.

                            US obliterates 'Isil-infested island' with 40 tonnes of bombs
                            https://www.telegraph.co.uk › News
                            3 days ago - Bombs were dropped on Qanus Island in the Tigris River, in Iraq, ... It had become a "major transit hub" for Isis moving from Syria and the ...


                            It would prevent the US from becoming mired in a ground campaign, would reduce risk to US service personnel, but rather doubtful that it would hold the possibility of keeping the Islamic terrorism problem under control.

                            So how do you effectively combat those who's religion it is to exterminate innocent people?
                            That is strange because we know Trump has always targeted innocent people to achieve his goals. https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/26/...-syria-mayadin

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by redrover View Post

                              That is strange because we know Trump has always targeted innocent people to achieve his goals. https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/26/...-syria-mayadin
                              You must have forgotten or more likely selective memory.
                              .
                              Covering Obama's Secret War - Columbia Journalism Review
                              https://www.cjr.org › feature › covering_obamas_secret_war
                              How successful are drones in killing enemies and sparing civilians? ... President Barack Obama has authorized 193 drone strikes in Pakistan since he took office in .... government had declared, by an accident in their illegal bomb-making lab.

                              Obama's 'War on Terror' has terrifying human toll - Brave New ...
                              https://www.bravenewfilms.org › obama_s_war_on_terror_has_terrifying_...
                              The election of Barack Obama brought hope for change in our war policy, but ... bombing and roadside explosives, which usually result in many civilian deaths.

                              Obama's covert drone war in numbers: ten times more strikes ...
                              https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com › stories › obamas-covert-drone-wa...
                              Jan 17, 2017 - However reported civilian casualties began to fall as Obama's first term ... The number of countries being simultaneously bombed by the US ...


                              Military conflict is a nasty business and there has yet been one which didn't also have collateral damage. But in the case of Islamic fundamentalist militants, hiding among the local civilian population, what do they expect? Better if those local civilians raise up and push the Islamic fundamentalist militants out of their locales.

                              So, no, not just a 'Trump problem', as you attempt to dress it up as. Your TDS is showing again, as it always does. Let's see you condemn Obama and his actions with the same vigor.

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