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  • How come?

    No matter what you think of the two candidates or their platforms, this election cycle is unique in one major way.

    Both candidates have the highest disapproval, distrust, lack of confidence etc ratings ever.

    This election wil not be won by people voting for the candidate that they believe the best but by the people voting against the candidate they dislike the most.

    My question, and let's keep platform and ideology out of it as much as we can please, How come the USA with over 300 million people, many of whom are good leaders, capable and qualified people, could only attract these two to run for the leadship of the most powerful nation on earth.

    In other words what is wrong with the system that it produced these two candidates? Where are the good leaders? Why aren't they running?

    Is it the system with its intense scrutinity of the candidates personal lives that drives away good candidates?

    Is it the media with its sound bite lowest common demoninator approach to the news that allows such candidates to flourish?

    Is it the people who simply don't care or have the capacity to take a serious sober look at the platforms and make rational individual determinations on the likely outcomes of the platforms that allows this to happen?

    Something else or a combination of factors?

  • #2
    Originally posted by RDK View Post
    No matter what you think of the two candidates or their platforms, this election cycle is unique in one major way.

    Both candidates have the highest disapproval, distrust, lack of confidence etc ratings ever.

    This election wil not be won by people voting for the candidate that they believe the best but by the people voting against the candidate they dislike the most.

    My question, and let's keep platform and ideology out of it as much as we can please, How come the USA with over 300 million people, many of whom are good leaders, capable and qualified people, could only attract these two to run for the leadship of the most powerful nation on earth.

    In other words what is wrong with the system that it produced these two candidates? Where are the good leaders? Why aren't they running?

    Is it the system with its intense scrutinity of the candidates personal lives that drives away good candidates?

    Is it the media with its sound bite lowest common demoninator approach to the news that allows such candidates to flourish?

    Is it the people who simply don't care or have the capacity to take a serious sober look at the platforms and make rational individual determinations on the likely outcomes of the platforms that allows this to happen?

    Something else or a combination of factors?
    For the Republican side, Conservatives and the silent majority were simply fed up with the lies from establishment candidates. Trump grabbed onto the immigration issue which is very important to many people whose jobs have disappeared or whose wages have become stagnant. People are tired of supporting illegal immigrants for the benefit of businesses who want cheap labor.

    For the Democrat side, Hillary scammed the system to become the anointed one. She has lied, cheated, and stolen her way to the position. She has played the woman card to her benefit. Many feel that she was cheated out of the chance when Obama was nominated and that she simply deserved it. She and Bill are very powerful with the money and information and contacts they have and some are simply afraid of opposing her for fear of ending up dead.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      You missed the question OMD.

      Why didn't a qualified candidate on the right take control of the anti-estsblishment anti
      immigration position?

      There is nothing magical about Trump's position on a lot of issues, so why did such an unqualified disliked and distrusted candidate manage to secure the nomination?

      Was there no likable and capable GOP politician availalle to stake out the position or is the Donald the best the GOP can do.

      Clinton's negeatives were likewise well known leading into this election. Most are old issues some going back to her days as First Lady or earlier.

      Are you telling me that these are the two best candidates from their side of the political world that the USA can put forward as potential POTUS?

      If not then why did they become the candidates?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        In the old days a civic minded person would run for a local office if he our she won and went on to do a good job party leaders would recognize talent when they saw it and would encourage the person to run for higher positions and before you knew the person had acquired a wealth of experience was now a career politician. At one time that experience was greatly valued. No longer We now have a candidate who claims to know more about ISIS than the generals. That is not only stupid. It is dangerous.republicans seem to be drawn to the purity of ignorance.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Originally posted by RDK View Post
          You missed the question OMD.

          Why didn't a qualified candidate on the right take control of the anti-estsblishment anti
          immigration position?
          There is nothing magical about Trump's position on a lot of issues, so why did such an unqualified disliked and distrusted candidate manage to secure the nomination?

          Was there no likable and capable GOP politician availalle to stake out the position or is the Donald the best the GOP can do.

          Clinton's negeatives were likewise well known leading into this election. Most are old issues some going back to her days as First Lady or earlier.

          Are you telling me that these are the two best candidates from their side of the political world that the USA can put forward as potential POTUS?

          If not then why did they become the candidates?
          The establishment Republicans thought it would be a cakewalk for Jeb. They seriously underestimated the dislike for the establishment. They refuse to go with any candidate who wasn't beholding to the Chamber of Commerce and their immigration agenda. I'm sure that in hindsight they wish they offered a candidate who was more palatable but they were so cocky sure that Jeb could win that they didn't take anyone else into consideration. The current GOP either doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

            The establishment Republicans thought it would be a cakewalk for Jeb. They seriously underestimated the dislike for the establishment. They refuse to go with any can didate who wasn't beholding to the Chamber of Commerce and their immigration agenda. I'm sure that in hindsight they wish they offered a candidate who was more palatable but they were so cocky sure that Jeb could win that they didn't take anyone else into consideration. The current GOP either doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it.
            Hillary's problems are more current. Her pay for play at the State Department, half million dollar speeches, and lies over her e-mails are new. Her current problem simply emphasize her past problems. Scandal has surrounded her since she got fired during the Watergate mess. She has been lying her entire life and her current lies now have an alternate media to point them out.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              I just don't think the mainstream republicans had realised just how far right many of their own supporters had swung and any candidate who wasn't a borderline mental case was just pretty much disqualified. If only they'd joined Trump in spouting whatever shit that popped into their heads on Twitter and then moaning that the press were being mean to him by reporting on it and pointing out just how batshit mental most of it was.

              They failed to jump on the crazy train and got left far behind.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Originally posted by RDK View Post
                No matter what you think of the two candidates or their platforms, this election cycle is unique in one major way.

                Both candidates have the highest disapproval, distrust, lack of confidence etc ratings ever.

                This election wil not be won by people voting for the candidate that they believe the best but by the people voting against the candidate they dislike the most.

                My question, and let's keep platform and ideology out of it as much as we can please, How come the USA with over 300 million people, many of whom are good leaders, capable and qualified people, could only attract these two to run for the leadship of the most powerful nation on earth.

                In other words what is wrong with the system that it produced these two candidates? Where are the good leaders? Why aren't they running?

                Is it the system with its intense scrutinity of the candidates personal lives that drives away good candidates?

                Is it the media with its sound bite lowest common demoninator approach to the news that allows such candidates to flourish?

                Is it the people who simply don't care or have the capacity to take a serious sober look at the platforms and make rational individual determinations on the likely outcomes of the platforms that allows this to happen?

                Something else or a combination of factors?
                That is the real question.

                I think the answer has two, maybe three parts - which is where the real arguments/discussions begin.

                1. The people have continually voted for candidates that aren't necessarily the best, voting more based on feelings and things like charisma etc. The people want a "movie star" and someone that promises them a lot of "free" stuff.

                2. Our political system has been corrupted by human nature. Mostly the greedy side of that nature. Politicians today "vote" themselves raises. Exempt themselves from laws they ask the rest of us to follow - things like that.

                3. Good people don't want to become a part of a system that is so obviously corrupt. This is unfortunate, it keeps things going the way they have been for over a century. So we will continue seeing "the best of the worst" kinds of people running for higher office - we're seeing a high point of this right now !

                Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                I just don't think the mainstream republicans had realised just how far right many of their own supporters had swung and any candidate who wasn't a borderline mental case was just pretty much disqualified. If only they'd joined Trump in spouting whatever shit that popped into their heads on Twitter and then moaning that the press were being mean to him by reporting on it and pointing out just how batshit mental most of it was.

                They failed to jump on the crazy train and got left far behind.
                ... same old same old... "republicans baa-aa-a-a-d, democrats goo-o-o-o-od"


                Nevermind the corruption and perversions of your democrats .."republicans baa-aa-a-a-d, democrats goo-o-o-o-od" -rollseyes-

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

                  For the Republican side, Conservatives and the silent majority were simply fed up with the lies from establishment candidates. Trump grabbed onto the immigration issue which is very important to many people whose jobs have disappeared or whose wages have become stagnant. People are tired of supporting illegal immigrants for the benefit of businesses who want cheap labor.

                  For the Democrat side, Hillary scammed the system to become the anointed one. She has lied, cheated, and stolen her way to the position. She has played the woman card to her benefit. Many feel that she was cheated out of the chance when Obama was nominated and that she simply deserved it. She and Bill are very powerful with the money and information and contacts they have and some are simply afraid of opposing her for fear of ending up dead.
                  Yeah, I think you figured it out correctly. This cycle was a cycle of rebellion against the status quo, and it included both parties. The democratic primary system had already been rigged, to make it hard for a grassroots candidate to win, and then you have to include the DNC working hard for Clinton, with their dirty tricks. And of course several states saw some trickery going on, by reducing the number of polling stations which would help Clinton since many older people who would vote for her would mail in ballots. There was probably even some fraud that went on. So the deck was stacked against sanders. Sanders, if you listened to him early on when he was asked about open borders, he was against them, and said it was what the Koch boys wanted. And of course he is against the kind of free trade we have. Trump was also holding this same position. So, this is what made this cycle different, chaotic, and it is still going on.

                  The establishment GOP, all of their candidates are open borders free traders, as are the democrats. But the GOP had never seen a reason to rig their primary system to make it hard for a grassroots candidate to win. They will correct that after this cycle. You can bank on it.
                  \
                  Much of the nation is fed up with open borders free trade. For it has really hurt working people. This is what this election was about, during the primaries. Now, with both parties fragmented, over the establishment and people like trump and sanders, it will allow Clinton to win, and the status quo will have survived. With hopes that this movement against open borders free trade was just a one time deal. And the next cycle, there will be non one like sanders and trump that is offered up as a choice, IMO. The only place it could come from are 3rd parties, and the system is already rigged well enough to keep them at bay.

                  So, we are seeing more than just an election cycle this time. We are seeing how the status quo protects itself come hell or high water. So pay attention as to how the concerted effort of the establishment, including MSM pulls it off.

                  With sanders and trump, this was our chance at Brexit. If we had a referendum, we would end open borders free trade. But our system is different, and its easier for such things to be fought off by the powers that be. The voters will never be given this choice again. Unless something big happens. Clinton supporters are playing and have played a huge role in insuring things remain the same and the working and middle class will continue to spiral downward. And they really do not care. They just want to make history. Even if she is a Jezebel. They had their chance to vote for change, or the start of change, and they just would not do it. A helluva thing, to vote just to make some kind of history. How myopic can anyone get? History will not look at this block favorably. It will be used as an example of something, and not a good something.
                  Last edited by Blue Doggy; 08-27-2016, 11:22 AM.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Please point out where I said anything at all in my post about the democrats.
                    It's only a 4 line post it shouldn't be hard.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                      That is the real question.

                      I think the answer has two, maybe three parts - which is where the real arguments/discussions begin.

                      1. The people have continually voted for candidates that aren't necessarily the best, voting more based on feelings and things like charisma etc. The people want a "movie star" and someone that promises them a lot of "free" stuff.

                      2. Our political system has been corrupted by human nature. Mostly the greedy side of that nature. Politicians today "vote" themselves raises. Exempt themselves from laws they ask the rest of us to follow - things like that.

                      3. Good people don't want to become a part of a system that is so obviously corrupt. This is unfortunate, it keeps things going the way they have been for over a century. So we will continue seeing "the best of the worst" kinds of people running for higher office - we're seeing a high point of this right now !



                      ... same old same old... "republicans baa-aa-a-a-d, democrats goo-o-o-o-od"


                      Nevermind the corruption and perversions of your democrats .."republicans baa-aa-a-a-d, democrats goo-o-o-o-od" -rollseyes-
                      What coruption? Lots of accusations to proof. No charges maybe we need yet another witch hunt. That's what Trump thinks we need.. It has been my experience in life. That people who accuse others of wrong doing are simply projecting their own values on others because they know that if he was in that position that is what he would do. Cheaters are the first to call other cheaters. That last obsevation comes from spending approximately 2500 hours watching children playing games.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by redrover View Post
                        What coruption? Lots of accusations to proof. No charges maybe we need yet another witch hunt. That's what Trump thinks we need.. It has been my experience in life. That people who accuse others of wrong doing are simply projecting their own values on others because they know that if he was in that position that is what he would do. Cheaters are the first to call other cheaters. That last obsevation comes from spending approximately 2500 hours watching children playing games.
                        Alright then, that wraps this topic up quickly.

                        It is I that is "projecting" and ... I am the one who is greedy and corrupt.

                        There we go then, problem solved. I'll start being more honest and generous. That will solve things.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                          I just don't think the mainstream republicans had realised just how far right many of their own supporters had swung and any candidate who wasn't a borderline mental case was just pretty much disqualified. If only they'd joined Trump in spouting whatever shit that popped into their heads on Twitter and then moaning that the press were being mean to him by reporting on it and pointing out just how batshit mental most of it was.

                          They failed to jump on the crazy train and got left far behind.
                          This doesn't make sense if you know that both sanders supporters are anti free trade. That isn't a right wing position, in fact both free trade and open borders are right wing, establishment positions. Sanders said open borders was what the Koch's wanted, to keep wages stagnated or to depress them. Of course trump started out wanting to deport the illegals, and sanders wanted to do the opposite and give them a path to citizenship. But he said open borders has to stop. He would probably end it by harsh punishment on American business who are sometimes involved in getting them here.

                          So what are trump's supporters so far right on? Not open borders free trade. His other positions on issues, like ending perpetual war for perpetual peace, with the last indulgence costing 6 billion by the time all costs are figured in, like medical care for the maimed is not far right at all.

                          I do not think the people who hate trump and create delusions, like him being a racists are just lies,, ever listen to what he says about these issues that he agreed with sanders on. He is actually not a modern right winger. And the GOP has trouble with that, and will vote for Clinton, because she embraces these right wing values, when it comes to open borders, free trade, and spending vast treasure on wars.

                          So his supporters are not these far right wingnuts, or even more to the right at all. They are working people who are being harmed by the policies of both parties. People who are suffering because of how both parties are not different when it comes to the issues that are felt strongly by average people.

                          This election, is about issues that are beginning to hurt more and more people with each passing year MSM is working hard to keep this as hidden as they can. They do not attack trump on his position on free trade, because they do not want voters even thinking about it. But that drove much of sanders support and its driving trumps. And to even question it has been taboo. And still is. Pay attention folks. A critical mind is needed if you really want to understand what is actually going on. His supporters know what this is about. But they get dismissed as racists, which misdirects what made this election different. Racism didn't create this election cycle, issues did. And MSM is intentionally ignoring it. So, it gets degenerated to bigotry. Clever way, appeal to emotions to distract away from the issues that are important to both sanders and trump people. Trump has been demonized from day one. For he is a threat to the elites and their economic schemes.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                            Alright then, that wraps this topic up quickly.

                            It is I that is "projecting" and ... I am the one who is greedy and corrupt.

                            There we go then, problem solved. I'll start being more honest and generous. That will solve things.
                            Human beings when wealth and power are involved have never been corrupt. They are all boy scouts and do not have any self interest at all. In fact crime does not exist, nor is it driven by self interest. How dare you to think differently. Stop being so negative. LOL.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                              Human beings when wealth and power are involved have never been corrupt. They are all boy scouts and do not have any self interest at all. In fact crime does not exist, nor is it driven by self interest. How dare you to think differently. Stop being so negative. LOL.
                              Ohh Ok.

                              i just don't want to "start another witch hunt." We all know todays politicians are completely honest - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpa-5JdCnmo

                              ".. if you like your Dr., if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. ..." Barack Hussein Obama

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