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Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

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  • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

    Originally posted by goober View Post
    When I was canvassing in a battleground state, I saw no equivalent effort from Romney or the GOP.
    I'm sure there was an effort, but it was considerably smaller and not as well organized.
    I think this was probably true in every battleground state, Romney depended on enthusiasm, Obama depended on organization.
    And that tells a bigger story, Romney's economic plan depended on enthusiasm to move the economy, Obama depends on an organized effort to recover the economy.
    An organized effort is slow and cumbersome, but enthusiasm is vaporware, it just doesn't do the job.
    Romney depended on enthusiasm in New Hampshire, Virginia, Florida, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Ohio, Obama depended on people going door to door, leaving door hangers, talking to voters, identifying Obama voters, making sure Obama voters had rides to the polls, making sure Obama voters understood that the country was depending on them to do their part. If you look at the numbers, you will see that there were large numbers of people who didn't vote, in those numbers there were enough Romney voters to give him every swing state, but it was the Obama people, visiting the sometime voters, that got the vote out, we visited people who would most likely vote for Obama, but there was a real question about whether they would vote, so we reached out and touched them, because that increases the number that votes.
    That same grass roots outreach delivered Senate seats and house seats, not enough to reclaim the House, but the effort was concentrated in swing states, and Democrats did very well in Swing states, because we got Democrats to the polls.
    This is two elections that the Democrats have taken with a superior ground game, prior to that Bush took two elections with a superior ground game.
    The big lesson is that the electorate is split evenly, and the best ground game has won 3 of the last 4 elections, 2008 wasn't close enough for ground game to matter, but it made slight Obama advantage into a huge advantage in 2008.
    I heard the Romney people did put a lot of effort into voter fraud. I haven't heard of them catching anyone yet, strangely.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

      Originally posted by pramjockey View Post
      And once again the American people surprise those who would mean to oppress them. Fear, hatred of women, racism, and anger were failing strategies of a dying political party that moves even further to the fringe in an attempt to woo the last bastions of those who made it once powerful, but who are now dying off. This strategy, of alienating immigrants, the educated, and those of moderate means in favor of religious fundamentalists (one wonders when the Taliban will be actively recruited to the GOP ranks) will ultimately be the failing of the Republican Party, and what was once the Whigs will transform again from the Republicans into something else. Hopefully it will be something with a sense of sanity, intelligence, and moderation in its thinking, because that is what the country needs - not more extremism and hatred.

      Congratulations to Mr. Obama, to states like New Hampshire, which not only went Blue, but now has an all-female Congressional delegation and Governor. That speaks well to the rejection of Republican fear- and hate-mongering, and the trivialization of issues like rape. Perhaps the conservatives will wake up and redirect themselves to something more productive for America, but somehow I doubt it. This isn't a football game where the winner takes all and the loser gets nothing. We're all in this together, trying to get ahead together. When your fellow Americans aren't getting ahead, it's not time to enact policies to make sure you pound the last nail in the coffin. And, if you call yourself an American, you sure as hell don't do things to prevent other Americans from voting.

      America now sits with huge decisions to make. Some are going to push very hard against compromise and cooperation, all in the name of politics. I say that these are the worst kinds of traitors. Being in a minority position doesn't mean that you get to dictate every decision. It means that you have to learn to pick a few battles, but ultimately compromise for the good of the nation, because that is what it is all about.
      Good to see you, Pram!

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

        Originally posted by John Drake View Post
        I heard the Romney people did put a lot of effort into voter fraud. I haven't heard of them catching anyone yet, strangely.
        Nor will you. Remember, he's got Rahm Emmanuel and Hillary Clintoon working for him. IF there were any shenanigans going on with the votes, voting machines, or the results in any way, we will never hear about it and, if they have anything to say about the alleged "it," we never will.

        My hypothetical scenario is, there are a handful of seriously skilled computer hackers who juggled the wires of the voting machines in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Ohio. These altered machines delivered those states to Obama and, by tonight, that handful of seriously skilled computer hackers (none of whom knew each other) will die mysterious deaths that will not be reported in any media. They will slip quietly from existence, never to be heard from again.

        BUT ... like I say, PURELY hypothetical

        OR IS it?

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

          Originally posted by goober View Post
          In my universe...by 1996 it was clear that Clinton had lead the nation out of the deep economic devastation of the Reagan-Bush years. Clinton's balanced policies created 4 years of surplus , The GOP regained control in 2001, turned the Clinton surpluses into record deficits, and plunged the nation into deep recession.
          At least that's what happened in my universe.


          That was good.

          tell me another one...

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

            Originally posted by Unique POV View Post
            No. Only middle aged white men believe that trickle down economics work.
            That's not true; every Keynsian does too through a mechanism called a "Central Bank".

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

              The difference between Obama and Romney..
              Your car gets a flat and you call your friend for help.
              Romney: He says he's on his way because it's what he thinks you want to hear but he never shows up.
              Obama: He says he isn't coming so you call another friend.

              I'd rather hear something I don't like on a consistent basis than be patronized.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                Originally posted by pramjockey View Post
                And once again the American people surprise those who would mean to oppress them. Fear, hatred of women, racism, and anger were failing strategies of a dying political party that moves even further to the fringe in an attempt to woo the last bastions of those who made it once powerful, but who are now dying off. This strategy, of alienating immigrants, the educated, and those of moderate means in favor of religious fundamentalists (one wonders when the Taliban will be actively recruited to the GOP ranks) will ultimately be the failing of the Republican Party, and what was once the Whigs will transform again from the Republicans into something else. Hopefully it will be something with a sense of sanity, intelligence, and moderation in its thinking, because that is what the country needs - not more extremism and hatred.

                Congratulations to Mr. Obama, to states like New Hampshire, which not only went Blue, but now has an all-female Congressional delegation and Governor. That speaks well to the rejection of Republican fear- and hate-mongering, and the trivialization of issues like rape. Perhaps the conservatives will wake up and redirect themselves to something more productive for America, but somehow I doubt it. This isn't a football game where the winner takes all and the loser gets nothing. We're all in this together, trying to get ahead together. When your fellow Americans aren't getting ahead, it's not time to enact policies to make sure you pound the last nail in the coffin. And, if you call yourself an American, you sure as hell don't do things to prevent other Americans from voting.

                America now sits with huge decisions to make. Some are going to push very hard against compromise and cooperation, all in the name of politics. I say that these are the worst kinds of traitors. Being in a minority position doesn't mean that you get to dictate every decision. It means that you have to learn to pick a few battles, but ultimately compromise for the good of the nation, because that is what it is all about.
                Don't you mean 'the good of select groups'?

                I don't think anyone running on what's 'good for the nation' is electable based on last night.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                  Originally posted by darth omar View Post
                  Don't you mean 'the good of select groups'?

                  I don't think anyone running on what's 'good for the nation' is electable based on last night.
                  Careful. You just might be a racist.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                    Originally posted by John Drake View Post
                    That's one interpretation, I suppose. However, it's been something of a minority opinion since the Civil War, and we've become the most powerful and prosperous nation to ever exist largely while not following it. My opinion of it is that you are confusing a Confedaration, which is actually an oligarchy where the components are nation-states, with a Nation. A Nation has a dominant ethnicity which all the citizens identify with. I dunno about you but I couldn't give a flying fandango about being a loyal Marylander or Massachutsean (well, what DO they call them?), while I AM a proud citizen of the USA.

                    We are a democratically BASED republic in any case, which will seem one then the other as times and circumstance warrant.

                    Mind, even the business of being a Republic isn't strictly true. You don't (or at least aren't supposed to) just elect a guy and then never think of him until the next election. You can still write letters, organise others, etc etc. Those all sound like democratic functions to me. (Then again, conservatives seem to think Republics are all oligarchies, and isn't it strange how they're always themselves in one or another of the ruling cliques.)

                    And PLEASE try some other argument than saying "it shouldn't be interpreted, it should be seen as is" because that itself, that is "seeing it as it is" is the very DEFINITION of interpretation.

                    Finally, just so I shouldn't be seen as derailing the thread. I contend that there IS no arbitrary or point at which a nation becomes 'too big'. We are "one nation" not many, just so long as all the people in it see the President as being THEIR President, no matter how divisive the campaign may have been. We were DESIGNED to be "scalable" as the saying goes, and I think that applies even if we expand to other planets.
                    Originally we were not "democratically" anything. Look at the Senate for instance, the Senators were chosen by State legislatures, not the People directly. The 17th Amendment of course changed that. Before the Constitution we were in fact a confederation and even during and after the ratification of the Constitution, pretty much everyone except for a few big government guys like Hamilton thought of themselves as citizens of their States, not as "Americans". We prospered following the Constitution before the Civil War, we certainly could have afterward. You are right though, the Civil War changed the idea of Soveriegn states in a VOLUNTARY union (which it was - and was acknowledged by pretty much every Founding Father, including Hamilton at the time of Ratification) to that of a "nation" of States subservient to the "nation government" in a Union held together by gun point - a scenario that even Hamilton himself said was not possible.

                    The nationalization of all these "issues" we have in today's political world could largely be solved if the Feds would stay out of it and the State governments could determine what to do. It'd also solve the demographic issues the GOP have.

                    (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

                    Originally posted by goober View Post
                    When I was canvassing in a battleground state, I saw no equivalent effort from Romney or the GOP.
                    I'm sure there was an effort, but it was considerably smaller and not as well organized.
                    I think this was probably true in every battleground state, Romney depended on enthusiasm, Obama depended on organization.
                    And that tells a bigger story, Romney's economic plan depended on enthusiasm to move the economy, Obama depends on an organized effort to recover the economy.
                    An organized effort is slow and cumbersome, but enthusiasm is vaporware, it just doesn't do the job.
                    Romney depended on enthusiasm in New Hampshire, Virginia, Florida, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Iowa and Ohio, Obama depended on people going door to door, leaving door hangers, talking to voters, identifying Obama voters, making sure Obama voters had rides to the polls, making sure Obama voters understood that the country was depending on them to do their part. If you look at the numbers, you will see that there were large numbers of people who didn't vote, in those numbers there were enough Romney voters to give him every swing state, but it was the Obama people, visiting the sometime voters, that got the vote out, we visited people who would most likely vote for Obama, but there was a real question about whether they would vote, so we reached out and touched them, because that increases the number that votes.
                    That same grass roots outreach delivered Senate seats and house seats, not enough to reclaim the House, but the effort was concentrated in swing states, and Democrats did very well in Swing states, because we got Democrats to the polls.
                    This is two elections that the Democrats have taken with a superior ground game, prior to that Bush took two elections with a superior ground game.
                    The big lesson is that the electorate is split evenly, and the best ground game has won 3 of the last 4 elections, 2008 wasn't close enough for ground game to matter, but it made slight Obama advantage into a huge advantage in 2008.
                    LOL you said Romney depended on enthusiasm.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                      Sometimes this nation of ours is just so cool it's breathtaking:



                      Who would have thought this was possible?

                      Amazing place, America.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                        Originally posted by jpn View Post
                        Sometimes this nation of ours is just so cool it's breathtaking:



                        Who would have thought this was possible?

                        Amazing place, America.
                        Wow who'd a thunk'd it. Obama wins and hugs his wife in a joyous embrace. Only in America folks, only in a America. America the Beautiful...

                        Only here my good Countrymen, only here, do spouses embrace upon a victory. Only here...

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                          In the midst of all the celebration, business, markets and investors are far from joyous.

                          Stocks Skid 2%; Dow Dives 300, S&P Below 1400 - Yahoo! Finance

                          Markets Plummet After Obama Victory: What It Means for Investors | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

                          I'm sure that we all kinda figured that this would be the reaction. I wonder how many jobs will be lost due to this 'victory'.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                            Originally posted by ericams2786 View Post



                            LOL you said Romney depended on enthusiasm.
                            I know, but that was his election plan, he never had the organization in place(he had nothing to compare with even Ron Paul's organization, let alone Obama's), he just counted on Republicans being so enthusiastic over the chance to vote for him that they'd have huge turnout. And that was his economic plan, that if he was elected, business would be so thrilled by his sheer awesomeness that they would immediately begin hiring hundreds of thousands of workers to gear up for the prosperity that hiring hundreds of thousands of workers would bring, and he really wouldn't have to do anything.
                            The good news is that by Romney depending on "enthusiasm" to get elected, we don't have to see what depending on "enthusiasm" as an economic plan would do.

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                            • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                              Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                              In the midst of all the celebration, business, markets and investors are far from joyous.

                              Stocks Skid 2%; Dow Dives 300, S&P Below 1400 - Yahoo! Finance

                              Markets Plummet After Obama Victory: What It Means for Investors | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

                              I'm sure that we all kinda figured that this would be the reaction. I wonder how many jobs will be lost due to this 'victory'.

                              Do you really believe that one day in the stock market means anything?

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                              • Re: Election Day 2012 - Results Discussion Thread

                                Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                                In the midst of all the celebration, business, markets and investors are far from joyous.

                                Stocks Skid 2%; Dow Dives 300, S&P Below 1400 - Yahoo! Finance

                                Markets Plummet After Obama Victory: What It Means for Investors | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

                                I'm sure that we all kinda figured that this would be the reaction. I wonder how many jobs will be lost due to this 'victory'.
                                Untold thousands...

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