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Time to restrict access to assault weapons to prevent a Charlie Hebdo in the US?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Danny View Post

    What about them? They don't kill nearly as many people.

    They kill and or effect more actually. See those threads I mentioned.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #47
      Originally posted by Danny View Post

      The die-hards will always find a way but why make it easier for them with lax gun laws? To satisfy the NRA?
      All those people who took video and pictures from their homes while the terrorists walked through the street shooting the cops with aks and ski masks on? If they had been armed do you know what would have happened? 17 people would not be dead.

      Also: no Danny, to satisfy our Constitution which recognizes my natural right to be armed, amongst other things, so I don't have to worry about shit like this happening to me because I can do something about it.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #48
        Originally posted by Danny View Post

        Because you make it harder for the next terrorist with the added benefit of possibly saving 10,000 additional American lives per year.

        You guys are all acting as if these people either aren't dying or you just don't care about them. It's truly remarkable to me. And again, still no argument as to why with all your guns, you don't have the lowest gun death rate or lowest crime rate.

        Just come out and say "I don't care about the consequences, I just want the least restrictions possible because I like it that way". I mean that's really the reason isn't it?

        Are you on drugs?? There aren't 10,000 firearms homicides per year in the US, let alone rifle homicides. Just come out and say it, you don't care about crime, you don't care about facts, you just want new gun bans because, well, because you want them.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #49
          Originally posted by Danny View Post

          Because you make it harder for the next terrorist with the added benefit of possibly saving 10,000 additional American lives per year.

          You guys are all acting as if these people either aren't dying or you just don't care about them. It's truly remarkable to me. And again, still no argument as to why with all your guns, you don't have the lowest gun death rate or lowest crime rate.

          Just come out and say "I don't care about the consequences, I just want the least restrictions possible because I like it that way". I mean that's really the reason isn't it?

          I've already stated why we have gun deaths -- gang related activity, drug activities, inner city thugs who get pissed off with each other .. it's pretty simple. It's also simple to understand that criminals will continue to possess guns regardless of the level of restrictions. Is also very simple to understand that there are thousands of gun related laws in the United States that aren't fully being enforced .. it's also simple to understand that you permit emotion to drive you to make baseless and uniformed decisions.

          What a crock of shit that you'd want gun control legislation (which already exists) enacted in a county you don't even live .. why? because terrorist used automatic weapons in an attack.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #50
            Originally posted by Danny View Post

            Because you make it harder for the next terrorist with the added benefit of possibly saving 10,000 additional American lives per year
            Since you have been shown the actual figures several times, I can't help but think you are deliberately telling a story here you know is false.

            Rifles - the guns you want to ban in your opening post - are used in fewer than 500 homicides a year. Far fewer.

            Your 10,000 number is an outright fabrication. Had you a shred of honor, integrity, or even human decency, I'd suggest you be ashamed.

            Not that you are capable of reading or absorbing information that conflicts with your extremist views, but here is some actual data, which refutes your fabrication:

            http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8

            Time to go back to civics kindergarten, Danny. You've once again been conclusively shown up as utterly ignorant.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #51
              Originally posted by Danny View Post
              You guys are all acting as if these people either aren't dying or you just don't care about them. It's truly remarkable to me. And again, still no argument as to why with all your guns, you don't have the lowest gun death rate or lowest crime rate.
              It is in our history , demographics and economics. It also has to do with the reality of the situation not the politics of it.
              More then half of people murdered are murdered by someone they know.
              About 23% of murders are associated with other felonies the vast remainder are crimes of passion or premeditated murder of specific individuals.

              If you are black in the U.S. you are. Over 5 times as likely to be murdered than is a white person. Murderers are also five time more likely to be black. The cruel fact of it is most folk don't care about crime that isn't happening to themselves if it is happening to those "oher people" it is oddly tolderable.

              Most people are not really afraid of being killed by their friends, cowocoworkers, and loved ones even though odds are that is who is going to murder you. People tend to kill those they know and those they can easily reach as is true for the majority of crime.

              Most people really don't have a preference to a man killing his wife, neighbor, or coworker with a gun, a knife, or bare hands it's all murder.

              As an aside barhands are used more often to kill than are anything vaguely like an "assault weapon". Someone should put restrictions on murder...

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #52
                Slavery is in your history but you managed to change that so I don't buy the argument that historical reasons are keeping the gun culture alive in the US.
                The gun lobby has done a great job of convincing you all that guns are needed and you're all buying into it while they make money by the fistful selling you all more and more guns.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #53
                  Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                  Slavery is in your history but you managed to change that so I don't buy the argument that historical reasons are keeping the gun culture alive in the US.
                  The gun lobby has done a great job of convincing you all that guns are needed and you're all buying into it while they make money by the fistful selling you all more and more guns.

                  You should come here for a visit. I will be glad to house and feed you while you are here, I will even provide you with a vehicle to visit surrounding areas. I think you have a poor picture of life in this country.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                    Slavery is in your history but you managed to change that so I don't buy the argument that historical reasons are keeping the gun culture alive in the US.
                    The gun lobby has done a great job of convincing you all that guns are needed and you're all buying into it while they make money by the fistful selling you all more and more guns.
                    No one has gotten rich over the tiny amount of sales I've been part of. "The Gun Lobby" is also many of my neigbors and family members.

                    You don't think systemic oppression(both real and imagined), multi-generational poverty and ignorance that fosters also cotributes to crime?

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #55
                      I'm saying the gun companies themselves who make billions from selling guns in the US has sold you all a lie.
                      If you think they don't have any affiliation to the gun lobby I think you're deluding yourself.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                        Slavery is in your history but you managed to change that so I don't buy the argument that historical reasons are keeping the gun culture alive in the US.
                        The gun lobby has done a great job of convincing you all that guns are needed and you're all buying into it while they make money by the fistful selling you all more and more guns.
                        See, I'l give you that Slavery was wrong and we did, indeed, "do something" to change it. But I don't think that statement (even disregarding your obvious ire at the gun manufacturers) is the retort you intended it to be to JD's comment. Let's review what he said, first:
                        1. It is in our history , demographics and economics. It also has to do with the reality of the situation not the politics of it.
                          This was only one statement but it was the entirety of your response. But as the TV crooners say, "BUT WAIT, There's MORE:"
                        2. More then half of people murdered are murdered by someone they know.
                          About 23% of murders are associated with other felonies the vast remainder are crimes of passion or premeditated murder of specific individuals.

                          If you are black in the U.S. you are. Over 5 times as likely to be murdered than is a white person. Murderers are also five time more likely to be black. The cruel fact of it is most folk don't care about crime that isn't happening to themselves if it is happening to those "oher people" it is oddly tolderable.

                          Most people are not really afraid of being killed by their friends, cowocoworkers, and loved ones even though odds are that is who is going to murder you. People tend to kill those they know and those they can easily reach as is true for the majority of crime.
                          This is the more important part of JD's response and you just let it slide without response. What he's saying is, guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people (which, I'm certain, doesn't fit your argument so you probably really do want to ignore it, but you can't)... This has been the foundational argument to what you call "the gun lobby" (which, as JD also points out, is primarily most of the citizens in the United States: Friends, neighbors, co-workers, family... it is not just the monolithic "industry" you want us to believe it is.
                        3. Most people really don't have a preference to a man killing his wife, neighbor, or coworker with a gun, a knife, or bare hands it's all murder.

                          As an aside barhands are used more often to kill than are anything vaguely like an "assault weapon". Someone should put restrictions on murder...
                          Again, you ignore an important part: ALL you want to do is restrict guns, but those are not the weapon of choice in most murders. Further, if you restrict them, the criminals who use them to commit crimes will laugh at your stupidity: Only the law-abiding citizens (whom you might also in this instance call "victims") will willingly surrender to those kinds of restrictions, leaving the guns only in the hands of the criminals.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                          I'm saying the gun companies themselves who make billions from selling guns in the US has sold you all a lie.
                          If you think they don't have any affiliation to the gun lobby I think you're deluding yourself.

                          The vast majority of the "gun lobby" is comprised of individual American citizens acting together through groups like the NRA, NAGR, and the like. As much as it upsets you guys, we get to make our own laws in our own country.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                            I'm saying the gun companies themselves who make billions from selling guns in the US has sold you all a lie.
                            If you think they don't have any affiliation to the gun lobby I think you're deluding yourself.
                            Only true if you believe the propaganda. The "gun lobby" and manufacturers are not always on the same side of issues.

                            I grew up in a home with guns, I actually pointed a gun at an idiot holding a knife to my brothers throat. I never rushed out and bought an arsenal out of fear.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MattInFla View Post

                              Your 10,000 number is an outright fabrication.
                              From your link the average number of firearm deaths in the US per year is...wait for it...9262. I don't mean to be an ass but can you read?

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • #60
                                I know you guys hate Media Matters but you need get out of your bubble from time to time. This article is a carbon copy of all of your arguments which are then refuted with proof.

                                http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/01...charlie/202091 Reporter Emily Miller has claimed during recent appearances on Fox News that the United States has not been subject to terrorist shootings like the one at the office of French satire newspaper Charlie Hebdo because private gun ownership in the United States dissuades terrorists from launching attacks.
                                Miller, the chief investigative reporter for Washington, D.C.'s Fox affiliate WTTG, also pushed false information about gun violence, including the claim that "gun-free zones" attract mass killers and that civilians with concealed weapons have stopped mass shootings.
                                During the January 11 edition of Fox & Friends Sunday, Miller (the former senior opinion editor of the conservative Washington Times who also contributes columns to FoxNews.com) claimed the reason "terrorists don't come here is because of civilian's ownership" of firearms. Miller continued with the confounding argument that terrorists use bombs but not guns in the United States because of civilian gun ownership.
                                During a January 12 appearance on Fox & Friends, Miller added, "The Second Amendment is what keeps us safer from terrorist attacks because foreigners know we have guns." (Al Qaeda has actually encouraged its followers to exploit loose gun laws in the United States to get weapons without a background check.)
                                Miller offered a number of untrue claims about gun violence built upon her false premise that there is no civilian gun ownership in France during her Fox appearances.
                                Miller Denies The Well Established Link Between Gun Ownership And Gun Death

                                On January 11, Miller said, "It's factually incorrect to say civilian ownership of guns is going to lead to more deaths, in fact it probably would have stopped that crime or at least slowed down the number of journalists that were slaughtered in Paris."
                                According to research from the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, "Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the U.S., where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide." Recent research conducted at Stanford University found an association between permissive laws allowing the carrying of concealed guns in public and violent crime.
                                Miller Falsely Claims Multiple Mass Shootings In The United States Have Been Stopped By Civilians With Concealed Carry Permits

                                Miller also suggested that in addition to stopping everyday crime there have been "multiple" instances where civilians with concealed guns have stopped public mass shootings in the United States. In fact, according to a 2012 investigation by Mother Jones, no public mass shootings have been stopped by civilian concealed carry holders, although pro-gun activists have often distorted the facts of several cases to try to create the opposite impression.
                                Miller Baselessly Claims The Terrorists Picked The Charlie Hebdo Offices Because It Was A "Gun-Free Zone"

                                During her January 12 appearance, Miller theorized that the terrorists responsible for the Charlie Hebdo attack choose France because the country is "basically a gun-free zone" and that such areas "lure evil, crazy people like terrorists."
                                This claim is baseless, as all evidence points to the terrorists targeting the Charlie Hebdo offices because of the terrorists' extremist ideology, not because of the rules about where guns can be carried. It is also unclear whether there was a gun in the newspaper offices, as one of the victims was being guarded by "an officer from the Interior Ministry's special unit for threatened personalities." In any case, there is no evidence to support the claim "gun-free zones" attract mass shooters. An investigation by Mother Jones magazine of 62 mass shootings in the United States found "not a single case includes evidence that the killer chose to target a place because it banned guns."
                                While pushing falsehoods about "gun-free zones," Miller argued that a policeman killed in the Charlie Hebdo attack, whose death was captured by a horrific bystander video, could have been saved by someone like her who owns a gun:
                                MILLER: A terrorist knows that if he goes in places that are not gun-free zones people can shoot back. Like the guy, the camera phone, at this horrible crime when this policeman in Paris was shot in the head begging for mercy, the person who was taking that video, if they had been a concealed carry holder or like me, a gun owner, they could have the shot man, maybe put him on defense. But instead they just watched and took a video.
                                Miller is a frequent source of misinformation on the topic of gun violence. In May 2014, Miller falsely claimed that at an event Hillary Clinton said, "Nobody should have guns," and, "There's too many guns." During her remarks Clinton had actually said of support for gun regulation, "I think you can say that and still support the right of people to own guns."



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