Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

    Originally posted by ThorHammer View Post
    For clarification, there are plenty of non-Republicans who think gun control shouldn't be on the table. But, hey, they must be childish too because they disagree with you.


    For the record, and off topic, Iraq did have WMDs. I saw some with my own eyes, along with other weapons they weren't supposed to have. Certainly not in the amounts we were told they had but they were there, nonetheless.
    Thor,

    Not discussing solutions to a problem is childish...

    Why not have gun control even on the table when discussing gun crime... Is using ignorance a winning strategy? So when I say fingers in ears and running around going lalalalal. I am referrring it to a child. This should be about benefit cost... What is cost of restricting access to certain types of weapons, magazine sizes, increasing Mental Health budget, armed police.... Do we think it would be effective...

    These are the kind of questions that should be asked... Then provide solutions...

    Otherwise someone better goto Newtown and gather up all those parents with there unopen christmas presents and tell them we were going to try but it seemed a bit hard, so we gave up.... But look at the bright side everyone gets to keep all the guns they want without question EVER... Because discussing it will mean the 'Bad Citizens win over the Good Citizens'...

    On WMD, Iraq had no WMD: the final verdict | World news | The Guardian and that is the record... WMDs were a b*llshit reason cooked up to invade a country because a guy wanted to show his father that he can finish a job(that is the best reason we can think of inventing so much evidence)...

    ?


    • #32
      Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

      Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
      Thor,

      Not discussing solutions to a problem is childish...

      Why not have gun control even on the table when discussing gun crime... Is using ignorance a winning strategy? So when I say fingers in ears and running around going lalalalal. I am referrring it to a child. This should be about benefit cost... What is cost of restricting access to certain types of weapons, magazine sizes, increasing Mental Health budget, armed police.... Do we think it would be effective...

      These are the kind of questions that should be asked... Then provide solutions...
      Right, and many are saying additional gun control isn't a solution and are perfectly willing to discuss other solutions. The problem, Ted, is that you think gun control is the only solution. That, of course, is fine. However, it isn't childish to disagree.

      Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
      Otherwise someone better goto Newtown and gather up all those parents with there unopen christmas presents and tell them we were going to try but it seemed a bit hard, so we gave up.... But look at the bright side everyone gets to keep all the guns they want without question EVER... Because discussing it will mean the 'Bad Citizens win over the Good Citizens'...
      See? See what you're doing? Many of us think that gun control isn't a solution and are perfectly willing to discuss other solutions, yet you think that in order to not be "childish" we have to at least "try" at gun control. That is some fucked up logic. You don't want a discussion, you want compliance.

      Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
      On WMD, Iraq had no WMD: the final verdict | World news | The Guardian and that is the record... WMDs were a b*llshit reason cooked up to invade a country because a guy wanted to show his father that he can finish a job(that is the best reason we can think of inventing so much evidence)...
      That is the record, but it isn't the truth. Yes, we didn't find the quantities we were told we'd find nor did we find an active research or production program, but that doesn't make the sarin and mustard gas munitions we did find any less real. Again, I personally saw sarin munitions that were in working order.

      Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

      That is the last I will post on WMDs

      ?


      • #33
        Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

        Originally posted by ThorHammer View Post
        Right, and many are saying additional gun control isn't a solution and are perfectly willing to discuss other solutions. The problem, Ted, is that you think gun control is the only solution. That, of course, is fine. However, it isn't childish to disagree.



        See? See what you're doing? Many of us think that gun control isn't a solution and are perfectly willing to discuss other solutions, yet you think that in order to not be "childish" we have to at least "try" at gun control. That is some fucked up logic. You don't want a discussion, you want compliance.



        That is the record, but it isn't the truth. Yes, we didn't find the quantities we were told we'd find nor did we find an active research or production program, but that doesn't make the sarin and mustard gas munitions we did find any less real. Again, I personally saw sarin munitions that were in working order.

        Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

        That is the last I will post on WMDs
        No didn't say gun control is the only solution. I do believe like David Gregory said to the NRA's Wayne LaPierre that should all solutions be on the table. That includes mental health issues, violence in movies and games... I am open to all...

        Wayne LaPierre refused to even discuss having gun control as an option. Watch it:


        Are you open to discussing all the options?

        On WMD, agreed different discussion for different thread.

        ?


        • #34
          Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

          Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
          Thor,

          Not discussing solutions to a problem is childish...

          Why not have gun control even on the table when discussing gun crime... Is using ignorance a winning strategy? So when I say fingers in ears and running around going lalalalal. I am referrring it to a child. This should be about benefit cost... What is cost of restricting access to certain types of weapons, magazine sizes, increasing Mental Health budget, armed police.... Do we think it would be effective...

          These are the kind of questions that should be asked... Then provide solutions...

          Otherwise someone better goto Newtown and gather up all those parents with there unopen christmas presents and tell them we were going to try but it seemed a bit hard, so we gave up.... But look at the bright side everyone gets to keep all the guns they want without question EVER... Because discussing it will mean the 'Bad Citizens win over the Good Citizens'...

          On WMD, Iraq had no WMD: the final verdict | World news | The Guardian and that is the record... WMDs were a b*llshit reason cooked up to invade a country because a guy wanted to show his father that he can finish a job(that is the best reason we can think of inventing so much evidence)...
          We tried the "assault weapons" ban and the magazine ban. Nobody has demonstrated that it had any effect on crime.

          So does it not seem logical to reject a "solution" that didn't work? How is that not "adult"?

          ?


          • #35
            Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

            Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
            We tried the "assault weapons" ban and the magazine ban. Nobody has demonstrated that it had any effect on crime.

            So does it not seem logical to reject a "solution" that didn't work? How is that not "adult"?
            We can always tell when the left wing nuts start to lose an argument. They come out trying to belittle a good argument. When nothing else is there, do a little insulting of conservative ideas.

            ?


            • #36
              Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

              Originally posted by CharlesD View Post
              We can always tell when the left wing nuts start to lose an argument. They come out trying to belittle a good argument. When nothing else is there, do a little insulting of conservative ideas.
              Although many with whom I'm well acquainted have been doing that for years, it is nonetheless quite Alinsky-esque.

              ?


              • #37
                Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
                I am not complaining about is the constant lies from the right. It is just constant....
                The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.
                ― Stephen Hawking

                I am saying Democrats are up for any sainthood but some of the stuff from the right is just batsh*t crazy. US gun laws have to be investigated by adults this time... US ownership is close to 10 times of the UK and they have 31,000 deaths a year... And before any kind of investigation begins the usual line of Obama is a commie, muslim, ultra socialist,....

                As to Bush, he unfortunally ignored warnings for 911, invaded the wrong country, outsourced an unwinnable war, overheated the economy, oversaw a massive collapse in economy, brought a surplus to a record deficiet.... On almost every parameter he failed... Look the Obama campaign slogan for Romney was 'here comes Bush III...'

                As for the Drones... I am not the greatest fan of drones but they are more effective than out right war....
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]13904[/ATTACH]

                By the way Obama has increased the drone use but he has used safer than his predessor..
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]13905[/ATTACH]

                Obama uses drones as a tool. While drone strikes have been going down, alot of the reasons for that is because they have run out of targets...

                Eircam: your "almost 200 innocent children each month die" comment is wrong. I expect better from you... This kind of comments drives me nuts... I research what I post and try to be acturate....
                1. There is plenty that is batshit insane on the Left...you just don't see it because you ignore it. The Rightcertainly is not immune, however modern conservatism is much more Progressive than you might care to admit, especially the "religious nuts". Both Parties are full of authoritarians, no matter how much you wish to spin it.

                2. Obama has continued damn near every Bush policy - from fighting the Iraq War for almost 3 years ("ending" it on Bush's agreed upon timeline - and we still have thousands of contractors there), to resigning the hated Patriot Act, to drone bombing far more people than Bush did (which is war however you want to spin it - let China drone bomb the US and see how quickly the American people call it war), to spending WAY too much money, to continuing the Bush era tax cuts, and then expanding indefinite detention. Defend Obama all you want, but he is no better than Bush and his record makes that clear. You are defending Bush's policies by defending Obama, there's just no way around it.

                3. I don't care if Obama uses drones as a tool or not. He is killing FAR FAR more innocent people than he is actual terrorists. I don't care frankly if the number is "only 10" or "only 50" per month or whether it is closer to 100-200 per month, the man is killing innocent children and women in these countries, illegally (without a declaration of war - just like Bush), and quite frankly, the death of innocent children is just as bad in Pakistan or Yemen as it is in Connecticut, again spin it however you want.

                4. My number was certainly inflated and I apologize for that, but let's be honest, the number of dead children over there is still appalling - and still sowing just as much hatred as "neo-con" policy has for a decade now. I definitely should have updated my research on that before posting, but the number is significant. A dead child is a dead child, whether it be at a middle school or in a village in Yemen somewhere. And I'm sure the parents of those dead children over there don't exactly like us afterwards - sowing more hate - leading to more terrorism - and ultimately more war that we cannot afford. We just don't have the money. Plus it's just wrong. Obama is just as much an imperialist as Bush. I stand by my original statement - if Obama is so worried about the safety of children, he should halt his drone program.

                ?


                • #38
                  Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                  General information from the Mayors Against Illegal Guns

                  MAIG certainly wouldn't want to use crime statistics to make its case. Maryland's murder rate is third highest among the states, 75 percent higher than Virginia's, 47 percent higher than Pennsylvania's, 46 percent higher than North Carolina's and 67 percent higher than West Virginia's. No rational person is going to believe that "weak" gun laws in those other states cause Maryland's crime problem, when they don't cause the same or worse within their own borders.

                  As it turns out, there is no correlation between a state's crime rate and whether it has any of the 10 state﷓level gun laws the group advocates. In fact, murder rates average 70 percent higher in major U.S. cities where seven or more of the 10 MAIG supported laws apply, than in cities where none of those laws are in force. And while BATFE considers firearm trafficking most likely to be indicated when a gun ends up in a criminal's hands within two years of its original sale, firearms traced by BATFE are 11 years old, on average.

                  Only briefly noted by MAIG is that most traced guns (70 percent nationally) were originally sold in the same state where they're eventually traced, and that those originally sold in other states generally come from neighboring states, regardless of their laws. (For example, restrictive California is the largest source of guns traced to out-of-state sources by agencies in Oregon, Nevada and Arizona.) Finally, guns sold in the 10 states that MAIG says are most responsible for interstate gun trafficking, are actually only one third as likely to end up being traced from other states.

                  ?


                  • #39
                    Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                    Originally posted by ericams2786 View Post
                    1. There is plenty that is batshit insane on the Left...you just don't see it because you ignore it. The Rightcertainly is not immune, however modern conservatism is much more Progressive than you might care to admit, especially the "religious nuts". Both Parties are full of authoritarians, no matter how much you wish to spin it.

                    2. Obama has continued damn near every Bush policy - from fighting the Iraq War for almost 3 years ("ending" it on Bush's agreed upon timeline - and we still have thousands of contractors there), to resigning the hated Patriot Act, to drone bombing far more people than Bush did (which is war however you want to spin it - let China drone bomb the US and see how quickly the American people call it war), to spending WAY too much money, to continuing the Bush era tax cuts, and then expanding indefinite detention. Defend Obama all you want, but he is no better than Bush and his record makes that clear. You are defending Bush's policies by defending Obama, there's just no way around it.

                    3. I don't care if Obama uses drones as a tool or not. He is killing FAR FAR more innocent people than he is actual terrorists. I don't care frankly if the number is "only 10" or "only 50" per month or whether it is closer to 100-200 per month, the man is killing innocent children and women in these countries, illegally (without a declaration of war - just like Bush), and quite frankly, the death of innocent children is just as bad in Pakistan or Yemen as it is in Connecticut, again spin it however you want.

                    4. My number was certainly inflated and I apologize for that, but let's be honest, the number of dead children over there is still appalling - and still sowing just as much hatred as "neo-con" policy has for a decade now. I definitely should have updated my research on that before posting, but the number is significant. A dead child is a dead child, whether it be at a middle school or in a village in Yemen somewhere. And I'm sure the parents of those dead children over there don't exactly like us afterwards - sowing more hate - leading to more terrorism - and ultimately more war that we cannot afford. We just don't have the money. Plus it's just wrong. Obama is just as much an imperialist as Bush. I stand by my original statement - if Obama is so worried about the safety of children, he should halt his drone program.
                    I have a problem with the way you and others use the term "imperialist" with the US. Not a big issue really, but it is misused so much as to need some discussion. We have not engaged in imperialism in almost a century.

                    imperialism
                    [im-peer-ee-uh-liz-uh m] noun

                    1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.

                    2. advocacy of imperial interests.

                    3. an imperial system of government.

                    4. imperial government.

                    ?


                    • #40
                      Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                      1 and 2 apply quite well to how the US operates.

                      ?


                      • #41
                        Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                        Originally posted by CharlesD View Post
                        I have a problem with the way you and others use the term "imperialist" with the US. Not a big issue really, but it is misused so much as to need some discussion. We have not engaged in imperialism in almost a century.

                        imperialism
                        [im-peer-ee-uh-liz-uh m] noun

                        1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.

                        2. advocacy of imperial interests.

                        3. an imperial system of government.

                        4. imperial government.
                        Myself, I prefer to use the term "interventionist", but when you look at it from the perspective of the totality of our policies overseas, it is imperialist. Not in the traditional sense mind you - but imperialist from the stand point of being the premier power, through military force, securing resources for our consumption, etc. American imperialism largely came from the Progressives of the early 20th century - the "Wilsonian foreign policy" if you will of spreading Democracy and civilizing others at the point of a gun. The modern neo-conservative/ Progressive foreign policy of "American Exceptionalism" and spreading Democracy through war is the pretty much the same thing. Granted, in 1920, it was much more imperialist in the literal sense, but our policies have largely the same effect on others - minus direct rule.

                        ?


                        • #42
                          Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                          Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                          1 and 2 apply quite well to how the US operates.
                          The more I read your posts and responses the more I realize you are not very informed.

                          ?


                          • #43
                            Re: That Right Wing Conservative Obama To Go After Guns

                            Originally posted by CharlesD View Post
                            The more I read your posts and responses the more I realize you are not very informed.
                            Nice try... I may not agree with the Citizen on everything but I will not say he is uninformed... Unlike yourself he is not only informed but uses actual links to support his arguements...

                            ?

                            Working...
                            X