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Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

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  • #61
    Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

    Originally posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
    I never said PTSD should automatically result in addition to such a list. I said it could and should depending if the facts in each case warrant it and IMO it did here given his conduct. I also mentioned his alcohol and substance abuse problem as another factor. I also don't think everyone with that medical history should get added but it can and should be grounds if it's active and severe enough and in this case it also was IMO.

    As to "outsiders" PTSD is a medical diagnosis. That any military laymen would assume they have any special insight that overrides medical diagnoses is reckless IMO. PTSD affects people in both military and civilian life depending on the person's trauma that led to it. IMO medical experts are the ones qualified to treat and judge it including fitness to possess firearms on a case by case basis.
    Not only that but PTSD is not only a medical condition involving the military. The military only brought it to light. Rape many rape victims (33% of female victims and 50% of male victims) suffer from PTSD. There are any number of other causes for it so it's not like military members have a patent on the term.

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    • #62
      Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

      Originally posted by ericams2786 View Post
      Ron Paul Clarifies Controversial Tweet - Yahoo! News

      "After receiving some criticism on Twitter, Paul, 77, later clarified his comment on Facebook, posing Kyle's death as an unintended consequence of "unconstitutional and unnecessary wars." On Monday evening, Paul posted the following note:

      As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend's violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle's family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. -REP"


      Now, admittedly I don't know much about this incident as I don't watch cable news and really had no knowledge of this incident before the tweet came out, but I don't think Paul was saying that this man himself "lived by the gun and therefore died by the gun". I think he was talking in a more philosophical sense about the United States "living by the sword, dying by the sword" - that is - "live by aggressive war and interventionism, die by unintended consequences". Granted, the initial comment was not clear on that and certainly it was insensitive and ill-timed, but looking at Paul's 30+ voting history and rhetorical history, I'm pretty sure what he meant by "live by the sword die by the sword" had nothing to do with guns or the need to take 2nd Amendment rights away from those with PTSD. Nothing in his record or his rhetoric has EVER called for more government as the solution to a problem, nor has he ever advocated taking away 2nd Amendment rights from ANYONE, including people with PTSD. Again, in my opinion (and opinion only as I cannot possibly know for certain), I think his statement was talking about US foreign policy, not this individual himself or people with guns or people with PTSD.
      Well, that's nice and all and we would definitely have less of an issue with these types of things if we weren't involving ourselves where we shouldn't, it would still happen if we were in a war that was justified. It was still a pretty stupid thing to say but I still think he's better than almost any other politician out there. What's worse? Saying something stupid and insensitive or sending people to die for dubious reason leaving broken families back home?

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      • #63
        Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

        Originally posted by Disillusioned_1 View Post
        The one-liner aspect of twitter continues to magnify all of the bad aspects of digital communication. I don't know that I'll ever get the purpose of twitter other than as a similar comment space like facebook's "status update". In fact, I don't see why facebook with a little programming couldn't basically displace twitter with some moderate changes to their "status update" code.
        Pfft...I don't know why politicians even mess with it. It just ends up causing all kinds of problems. It should be something left for vapid followers of celebrities.

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        • #64
          Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

          Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
          ‘He who lives by the sword dies by the sword’


          As much as I admired Ron Paul for his fiscal sensibilities it was EXACTLY this kind of garbage that kept on driving me away from him.

          Ron Paul can kiss my ass.
          Originally posted by ericams2786 View Post
          Ron Paul Clarifies Controversial Tweet - Yahoo! News

          "After receiving some criticism on Twitter, Paul, 77, later clarified his comment on Facebook, posing Kyle's death as an unintended consequence of "unconstitutional and unnecessary wars." On Monday evening, Paul posted the following note:

          As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend's violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle's family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. -REP"


          Now, admittedly I don't know much about this incident as I don't watch cable news and really had no knowledge of this incident before the tweet came out, but I don't think Paul was saying that this man himself "lived by the gun and therefore died by the gun". I think he was talking in a more philosophical sense about the United States "living by the sword, dying by the sword" - that is - "live by aggressive war and interventionism, die by unintended consequences". Granted, the initial comment was not clear on that and certainly it was insensitive and ill-timed, but looking at Paul's 30+ voting history and rhetorical history, I'm pretty sure what he meant by "live by the sword die by the sword" had nothing to do with guns or the need to take 2nd Amendment rights away from those with PTSD. Nothing in his record or his rhetoric has EVER called for more government as the solution to a problem, nor has he ever advocated taking away 2nd Amendment rights from ANYONE, including people with PTSD. Again, in my opinion (and opinion only as I cannot possibly know for certain), I think his statement was talking about US foreign policy, not this individual himself or people with guns or people with PTSD.
          So Lutherf, after hearing Dr. Paul's clarification of his statement, do you still consider this an example of the garbage that drove you away from him?

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          • #65
            Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

            Originally posted by Disillusioned_1 View Post
            So Lutherf, after hearing Dr. Paul's clarification of his statement, do you still consider this an example of the garbage that drove you away from him?
            I'll give him full credit for his explanation but yeah, I still hold it against him. An incident like the Kyle shooting is no time to be pushing your political agenda.

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            • #66
              Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

              Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
              If you read his book, you would know how absurd your comment is.
              Well don't leave us in suspense. What part of his book rebukes my statement?

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              • #67
                Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

                Read it, and see if you can figure it out

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                • #68
                  Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

                  Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
                  Read it, and see if you can figure it out
                  Right, and after I support your claims, I'll come over and wash your car for free, too.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Ron Paul on Chris Kyle

                    Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
                    I'll give him full credit for his explanation but yeah, I still hold it against him. An incident like the Kyle shooting is no time to be pushing your political agenda.
                    I'm not so sure he really has much of a political agenda, given the guy isn't in office and isn't running for one. However, even as a huge supporter of Dr. Paul I will admit that the tweet was ill-advised and insensitive. Given how he is though, I doubt, as I said before, that he would say "hey the guy had a gun he deserved to die by it". It was pretty obvious to anyone who has read his books, listened to his speeches, etc. that he was talking about blowback from interventionism and unintended consequences of war - of which the increasing number of veteran suicides and PTSD cases would certainly fall into. But I see where you are coming from.

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