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What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

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  • #16
    Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

    Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
    A pharmacological substance is a pharmacological and should be produced by a pharmacological company and distributed by a pharmacy. That is the model that we currently have for dispensing medicinal substances, and even medicinal equipment, walkers, braces, and artificial limbs.

    Do don't see where we have to discard that model that's worked and worked well for so many years, has the needed and agreed upon controls, just because pot is pot, and being used for medicinal purposes.
    You could get a perscription for medicinal liquor during prohibiition, why didn't we keep using that model of disttribution?

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #17
      Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
      Probably the main difference is, it hasn't been approved by the FDA for treatment of any condition.
      Who does the FDA work for, do you suppose? The government or the actually pharmaceutical companies that they are supposed to regulate?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #18
        Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        You could get a perscription for medicinal liquor during prohibiition, why didn't we keep using that model of disttribution?
        Let me guess. Because we came to realization that liquor wasn't medicinal? Kinda like how we are changing from medicinal pot to recreational pot.

        But if the claim is that it's going to be that pot can be a medicinal substance and will be used as a medicinal substance, shouldn't it really come from a pharmaceutical company at pharmaceutical grade and dispensed in a pharmacy?

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #19
          Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

          Originally posted by reality View Post
          Well Its not like I speak for the forum or anything but I do speak for myself: Fuck right off until you can actually READ the information in the op and respond to it cogently. Until you can demonstrate that you have I won't be engaging in any sort of discussion with you.

          I swear to God you are as bad as JET.
          OK. So I read the article. Not exactly sure what is all that earth shattering here. From the article I got that there's a large number of different compounds in the plant, and that when consumed in their entirety, or at least their major components present in the plant, that the consumers got a better high and liked it more.

          Hasn't combination drug therapy been around for quite some time already? So I don't see why this particular combination of compounds should have a different set of laws for production and distribution than any other medicinally used compounds.

          Please explain your thinking that this particular combination of compounds should have a separate production and distribution laws.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #20
            Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

            Well, they should at least follow the same regulations as cigarette companies and the food industry, imo. It wouldn't make sense to have a whole industry to get special treatment over everyone else. Of course, we could go the opposite way and reduce a lot of regulations all around and meet in the middle.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #21
              Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

              Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
              Well, they should at least follow the same regulations as cigarette companies and the food industry, imo. It wouldn't make sense to have a whole industry to get special treatment over everyone else. Of course, we could go the opposite way and reduce a lot of regulations all around and meet in the middle.
              Best of luck with that ever happening...

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #22
                Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                Let me guess. Because we came to realization that liquor wasn't medicinal? Kinda like how we are changing from medicinal pot to recreational pot.

                But if the claim is that it's going to be that pot can be a medicinal substance and will be used as a medicinal substance, shouldn't it really come from a pharmaceutical company at pharmaceutical grade and dispensed in a pharmacy?
                Only if production requires precise measurement and control. A lot of our laws are built around the idea adults are not adults. Many of our "controlled" drugs can simply be bought elsewhere in the world.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #23
                  Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                  Originally posted by reality View Post
                  No it doesn't actually. High grade marijuana has to be grown hydroponically indoors in a seriously controlled environment. If it pollanizes the plant buds and you have to harvest it. If you hold it off from being pollanized it continuously produces THC (or CBD depending on the genetics of the plant. They grow in inverse proportions. CBD is the most medically applicable see "Charlottes Web") making a higher grade product.
                  This requires CONSTANT scrutiny (at least 4 hours of work EVERYDAY and thats for a small operation that is running lacksadasically), work, and water and power. As well as specialized equipment.

                  I can grow 100 potatos in a little man made contraption with nothing but water and sunlight in an area about as tall as the knee and wide as my shoulders. Bit different.

                  ANd the best thing about it being availible for recreational purposes is that that is high enough grade to use for medical purposes and it doesn't take any sort of scientist to refine it down to pretty much pure thc oil or cbd oil etc. Its all very very simple chemistry that anyone who can make cookies can follow. Easy step by step intructions. You can find them on youtube. I'm sure DAN will enjoy that, he finds many instructional videos on youtube by his own attestation in another thread.
                  I grew pot in the ground, many decades ago, using seeds from some Hawaiian bud. I always grew sinse, which is the female, unfertilized plant. Of course I culled the male plants before they could flower out and make pollen. And while it was not as potent as some pot is today, it was plenty potent, 3 tokes and you are high as a kite. I was trying to breed one toke pot, but 3 toke pot is still plenty strong enough. Beats having to smoke an entire joint to catch a buzz.

                  What I found out, which I already was aware of, is that it takes time for pot that was grown in Hawaii and which was acclimated to that soil and climate, to become acclimated to my soil and climate. The more my plants, over the years became adjusted to my environment, the stronger it became in so far as THC levels. And the healthier the plants became. The first year that I grew this strain the plants were a little over 6 feet tall at harvest. By the time I stopped growing, that same strain was hitting 8 feet easily and I was harvesting a pound or more in buds off of each plant. First year, I was lucky to get 1/4 pound per plant.

                  Hydroponics picked up steam later on, when plants were being grown indoors to escape the eyes of the law. And since we had learned more about what is needed to max out thc content, this could be optimized by hydroponic gardening. It has become quite scientific when compared to the late 60s, early 70s. Yet I smoke some of the world's finest weed back then, and if this new stuff is stronger, I would be wary of even smoking it. LOL. I cultivated Cannabis Sativa, not Indica, which I never liked. I liked the uppy, trippy effects of good sativa over the sleepy, brain dead effects of indica. We called indica, in the old days as "lead ass weed". Made you lazy, just content to sit there like a zombie. Sativa made you want to be active, alert, digging on the colors of the world. LOL.

                  I have been accused here, in the past of knowing nothing about weed, growing it. Yet I did it for years, and being raised on a farm, paying attention to the need of plants, I grew some might fine herb. My strain smelled of cedar, and it had a very strong smell as it sit in a baggy. You could smell it through the bag. And if I were young again, I would move to one of those states that it is legal to grow it. It would take me only an hour to get caught up on the new growing techniques.

                  I used to harvest, determining the right time after the plants flowered out and made buds, using a magnifying glass. There is a structure, and I can't recall the proper name of it, that forms a bulb on the top when the thc is maxed out. I would wait until the plant had matured enough to form these bulbs. Instead of breaking the stalk and letting the sun dry the plants, I dried them inside, hanging upside down, from the rafters in my barn. Once the moisture content was good, I cut off the buds, manicured them and kept the bud in quart mason jars.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #24
                    Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    I have said for a long time that I think they should just legalize pot.
                    And I've said the same for a long time. I've also said it has medical applications. Which it does.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #25
                      Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                      Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                      OK. So I read the article. Not exactly sure what is all that earth shattering here. From the article I got that there's a large number of different compounds in the plant, and that when consumed in their entirety, or at least their major components present in the plant, that the consumers got a better high and liked it more.

                      Hasn't combination drug therapy been around for quite some time already? So I don't see why this particular combination of compounds should have a different set of laws for production and distribution than any other medicinally used compounds.

                      Please explain your thinking that this particular combination of compounds should have a separate production and distribution laws.
                      1) You must not have read very well, otherwise you would understand.
                      2) Since you lack reading comprehension let me explain it to you then: When in its natural form it WORKS BETTER at pain and nausea relief and is also more simply and effciently delivered to someone in a great deal of nausea and pain when smoked. Cause if they are throwing up from chemo, aids etc its gonna be pretty hard to keep down pills or brownies and sticking someone with aids or who is weak from chemo with MORE needles just isn't that smart.
                      3) While some of its compounds show medical efficacy in pure form (THC for instance can be injected into tumors to cause cancerous cells to die and healthy cells to stay the same. Its being injected so its something that should come from a lab and be pure as the driven snow) the main usage of medical weed is for nausea and pain relief. As discussed the best way to administer that is smoking it.
                      4) As mentioned THC and CBD grow in the plant in inverse proportions. CBD is able to halt intractable epilepsy for which the normal "cure" is lobotomy. (no shit). Doing so is SIMPLE. You take the plant, grind it up, cook it in oil at a temp of around 350 (you can look up the specific temp online. I don't know it off the top of my head) for a few minutes, strain it, and then administer a little oil in one meal a day. CBD is NOT psychoactive (you don't get ANY sort of head rush etc. ANY. ) and since THC exists in inverse proportion to it the oil itself is no more psychoactive than a cup or two of coffee (just a bit, but nothing that is not considered absolutely normal). This is something simply and easily done in the home without the need to pay a pharma company, a pharmacy, your insurance company etc involved. Just get a note from your doctor saying "she needs CBD" and make it yourself if you like. Though a company COULD certainly make it as well as people ARE lazy.
                      I'm just saying there is not a necessary reason for that. Sufficient? Sure. Necessary? Nope.

                      And get this: If its legal for recreational purposes, you CAN"T stop people from doing this.

                      If you would like to read some more about CBD, how it works, why its not psychoactive, and the people that have FLED to colorado to get their kid CBD strain plants so they don't have to cut off the front of their brains, google "charlottes web" and "CBD and intractable epilepsy".

                      As to "combination drug therapy" there are 400+ compounds that according to the article all work best together. You want to take 400 pills at once? You want to pay the COST for 400 prescriptions?
                      Are you drunk?

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #26
                        Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                        I grew pot in the ground, many decades ago, using seeds from some Hawaiian bud. I always grew sinse, which is the female, unfertilized plant. Of course I culled the male plants before they could flower out and make pollen. And while it was not as potent as some pot is today, it was plenty potent, 3 tokes and you are high as a kite. I was trying to breed one toke pot, but 3 toke pot is still plenty strong enough. Beats having to smoke an entire joint to catch a buzz.

                        What I found out, which I already was aware of, is that it takes time for pot that was grown in Hawaii and which was acclimated to that soil and climate, to become acclimated to my soil and climate. The more my plants, over the years became adjusted to my environment, the stronger it became in so far as THC levels. And the healthier the plants became. The first year that I grew this strain the plants were a little over 6 feet tall at harvest. By the time I stopped growing, that same strain was hitting 8 feet easily and I was harvesting a pound or more in buds off of each plant. First year, I was lucky to get 1/4 pound per plant.

                        Hydroponics picked up steam later on, when plants were being grown indoors to escape the eyes of the law. And since we had learned more about what is needed to max out thc content, this could be optimized by hydroponic gardening. It has become quite scientific when compared to the late 60s, early 70s. Yet I smoke some of the world's finest weed back then, and if this new stuff is stronger, I would be wary of even smoking it. LOL. I cultivated Cannabis Sativa, not Indica, which I never liked. I liked the uppy, trippy effects of good sativa over the sleepy, brain dead effects of indica. We called indica, in the old days as "lead ass weed". Made you lazy, just content to sit there like a zombie. Sativa made you want to be active, alert, digging on the colors of the world. LOL.

                        I have been accused here, in the past of knowing nothing about weed, growing it. Yet I did it for years, and being raised on a farm, paying attention to the need of plants, I grew some might fine herb. My strain smelled of cedar, and it had a very strong smell as it sit in a baggy. You could smell it through the bag. And if I were young again, I would move to one of those states that it is legal to grow it. It would take me only an hour to get caught up on the new growing techniques.

                        I used to harvest, determining the right time after the plants flowered out and made buds, using a magnifying glass. There is a structure, and I can't recall the proper name of it, that forms a bulb on the top when the thc is maxed out. I would wait until the plant had matured enough to form these bulbs. Instead of breaking the stalk and letting the sun dry the plants, I dried them inside, hanging upside down, from the rafters in my barn. Once the moisture content was good, I cut off the buds, manicured them and kept the bud in quart mason jars.
                        Let me tell you, being a current smoker and having tried both good dirt weed and good hydro: There is no comparison.
                        Its the difference between beer and whiskey. Good beer can be decently strong and WILL get you drunk. Whiskey will do so more efficiently every single time. Even bad whiskey.
                        I'm not denying that you got baked. I'm not denying that you got stoned off your gourd. What I'm saying is that the shit we have now is even stronger. And as such people's tolerences are stronger.

                        The structure you're talking about is called a tri-chrome. Its the little bubbles of THC

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                        • #27
                          Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                          Originally posted by reality View Post
                          1) You must not have read very well, otherwise you would understand.
                          2) Since you lack reading comprehension let me explain it to you then: When in its natural form it WORKS BETTER at pain and nausea relief and is also more simply and effciently delivered to someone in a great deal of nausea and pain when smoked. Cause if they are throwing up from chemo, aids etc its gonna be pretty hard to keep down pills or brownies and sticking someone with aids or who is weak from chemo with MORE needles just isn't that smart.
                          3) While some of its compounds show medical efficacy in pure form (THC for instance can be injected into tumors to cause cancerous cells to die and healthy cells to stay the same. Its being injected so its something that should come from a lab and be pure as the driven snow) the main usage of medical weed is for nausea and pain relief. As discussed the best way to administer that is smoking it.
                          4) As mentioned THC and CBD grow in the plant in inverse proportions. CBD is able to halt intractable epilepsy for which the normal "cure" is lobotomy. (no shit). Doing so is SIMPLE. You take the plant, grind it up, cook it in oil at a temp of around 350 (you can look up the specific temp online. I don't know it off the top of my head) for a few minutes, strain it, and then administer a little oil in one meal a day. CBD is NOT psychoactive (you don't get ANY sort of head rush etc. ANY. ) and since THC exists in inverse proportion to it the oil itself is no more psychoactive than a cup or two of coffee (just a bit, but nothing that is not considered absolutely normal). This is something simply and easily done in the home without the need to pay a pharma company, a pharmacy, your insurance company etc involved. Just get a note from your doctor saying "she needs CBD" and make it yourself if you like. Though a company COULD certainly make it as well as people ARE lazy.
                          I'm just saying there is not a necessary reason for that. Sufficient? Sure. Necessary? Nope.
                          That particular article didn't address any of these points. It was limited in scope as to what the compounds in pot were, and that their combination was more effective than any of them taken singly.

                          Originally posted by reality View Post
                          And get this: If its legal for recreational purposes, you CAN"T stop people from doing this.
                          Undisputed. Further, regardless if it's illegal or not, you can't keep people from doing what they want. This is a free market fundamental.

                          Originally posted by reality View Post
                          If you would like to read some more about CBD, how it works, why its not psychoactive, and the people that have FLED to colorado to get their kid CBD strain plants so they don't have to cut off the front of their brains, google "charlottes web" and "CBD and intractable epilepsy".

                          As to "combination drug therapy" there are 400+ compounds that according to the article all work best together. You want to take 400 pills at once? You want to pay the COST for 400 prescriptions?
                          Are you drunk?
                          Realistically it wouldn't be 400 prescriptions. It would be a few prescriptions with the effective and active compounds in them.

                          I think your drive and desire to make pot legal and freely available makes you read far more into articles such this one.

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                          • #28
                            Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                            Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                            That particular article didn't address any of these points. It was limited in scope as to what the compounds in pot were, and that their combination was more effective than any of them taken singly.



                            Undisputed. Further, regardless if it's illegal or not, you can't keep people from doing what they want. This is a free market fundamental.



                            Realistically it wouldn't be 400 prescriptions. It would be a few prescriptions with the effective and active compounds in them.

                            I think your drive and desire to make pot legal and freely available makes you read far more into articles such this one.
                            Holy shit! You might actually have to you know do some digging of your own and be knowledgable on the issue by reading more than one article!!!! O noes!


                            Since its 400+ compounds that ALL act TOGETHER to PERFORM BETTER, it kinda would be. It would be a succession of pills and tonics you'd take instead of eating a brownie or vaping some weed. All that is more money out of the person's pocket for NO REASON. I'm not into spending money so people's FEELINGS are satisfied. That is bullshit. And that is what you suggest. "Well I feel that thats not a good idea, despite being provided with evidence to the contrary" is basically your argument.
                            Like I said: Just like Jet.

                            I think my having vastly more knowledge on the subject than you do, and a commitment to sound fiscal policy and individual liberty, allows me to UNDERSTAND articles such as this one far more than you are able to. That and the fact that you have to be castigated to get you to read the damn article.

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                            • #29
                              Re: What makes medical pot different than other compounds. Entourage Effect

                              http://blog.norml.org/2014/03/17/stu...ease-symptoms/

                              Thought I might add this: INHALED cannabis mitigates parkinsons. INHALED. MITIGATES. PARKINSONS.

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