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Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

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  • Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

    We talk a lot about the immigration, how much of our tax money is spent on dealing with the process, and so on. But have you ever thought about the actual scope of the problem?
    Just think about it. Since the Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals came into effect in 2012, 52 000 children have crossed the border within this program. It means their arrival was documented. But does anyone know how many kids just sneaked in?
    Still, we are a rich country; we can afford to spend $6.3 trillion to legalize one generation of immigrants. Our budget is capable of providing them with health care and social insurance. It is definitely necessary to provide them with education - $12300 a year for each kid. We have enough resources to finance more fire-fighter brigades, ambulances, police departments and so on (the services that you need to widen if the population grows). But that all is just money renewable resource.
    How about other sides of the mass immigration from Central America? Many of these kids are gang members, so they would contribute to the drug traffic growth, and not because they are so bad, but because they need to earn money and that is something they know.
    Then, how about a health check for the kids? Who does it? How thoroughly? The kids are often sick with different types of flu, they have hepatitis and tuberculosis. Are we ready to deal with the diseases at this scale?
    Then, they soon will grow up, and grow up fast. Are they going to integrate with the American culture? Are they eager to learn English, to study and become active citizens? I dont know. But what I know for sure, in the Catholic culture of Latin America the kids and the family are worshiped a lot, so very soon the immigrant would just simply multiply. While WASP Americans wait to start a family until their 30s, perform abortions, and so on.
    I guess this all creates a certain picture: this immigration flood might cost us the future.

  • #2
    Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

    Originally posted by Tameamea View Post
    We talk a lot about the immigration, how much of our tax money is spent on dealing with the process, and so on. But have you ever thought about the actual scope of the problem?
    Just think about it. Since the Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals came into effect in 2012, 52 000 children have crossed the border within this program. It means their arrival was documented. But does anyone know how many kids just sneaked in?
    Still, we are a rich country; we can afford to spend $6.3 trillion to legalize one generation of immigrants. Our budget is capable of providing them with health care and social insurance. It is definitely necessary to provide them with education - $12300 a year for each kid. We have enough resources to finance more fire-fighter brigades, ambulances, police departments and so on (the services that you need to widen if the population grows). But that all is just money renewable resource.
    How about other sides of the mass immigration from Central America? Many of these kids are gang members, so they would contribute to the drug traffic growth, and not because they are so bad, but because they need to earn money and that is something they know.
    Then, how about a health check for the kids? Who does it? How thoroughly? The kids are often sick with different types of flu, they have hepatitis and tuberculosis. Are we ready to deal with the diseases at this scale?
    Then, they soon will grow up, and grow up fast. Are they going to integrate with the American culture? Are they eager to learn English, to study and become active citizens? I dont know. But what I know for sure, in the Catholic culture of Latin America the kids and the family are worshiped a lot, so very soon the immigrant would just simply multiply. While WASP Americans wait to start a family until their 30s, perform abortions, and so on.
    I guess this all creates a certain picture: this immigration flood might cost us the future.
    Well, the America created by Europeans, the English will probably follow what the Spaniards and portugese created in south American, central America and mexico. That is what a future united states will probably look like.

    This influx of illegals since Reagan who legalized millions of them, has been planned, have no doubt about that. And the People, the average folks had nothing to do with it, but they kept voting for the same people who allowed it to happen.

    The question is, who really benefits from this? If you follow the path that leads to who makes money from it, or profits, you will find the culprits. Since American wages are repressed by this influx, it isn't working people who benefit. So, who does that leave?

    What it is, is a recipe for disaster, but the disaster will be experienced by average americans. You can thank the dems and the repubs for this, for they have been at the controls, and both of them allowed this to happen. So be sure you vote for one or the other in the next election. So that this will continue on. And most people will do just that. I call it the American political delusion, and the People are getting exactly the gov't that they truly deserve. It is all about personal responsibility, and most American voters are highly irresponsible. Or ignorant, no, its both. And it meets Einstein's apt definition of insanity. You keep repeating the same actions, while somehow expecting different results. I am afraid political tribalism is the most destructive thing that a free republic can ever have. It's suicidal.

    ?


    • #3
      Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
      Well, the America created by Europeans, the English will probably follow what the Spaniards and portugese created in south American, central America and mexico. That is what a future united states will probably look like.

      This influx of illegals since Reagan who legalized millions of them, has been planned, have no doubt about that. And the People, the average folks had nothing to do with it, but they kept voting for the same people who allowed it to happen.

      The question is, who really benefits from this? If you follow the path that leads to who makes money from it, or profits, you will find the culprits. Since American wages are repressed by this influx, it isn't working people who benefit. So, who does that leave?

      What it is, is a recipe for disaster, but the disaster will be experienced by average americans. You can thank the dems and the repubs for this, for they have been at the controls, and both of them allowed this to happen. So be sure you vote for one or the other in the next election. So that this will continue on. And most people will do just that. I call it the American political delusion, and the People are getting exactly the gov't that they truly deserve. It is all about personal responsibility, and most American voters are highly irresponsible. Or ignorant, no, its both. And it meets Einstein's apt definition of insanity. You keep repeating the same actions, while somehow expecting different results. I am afraid political tribalism is the most destructive thing that a free republic can ever have. It's suicidal.
      First, I don't actually mind immigration - if it's legal, and if the result is a richer culture while the level of life stays the same or goes up. So, in the ideal world immigration is an advantage.
      Second, completely agree. Such processes are always directed for a certain purpose. Too bad most of us don't understand this, don't see a bigger picture and don't even try to...

      ?


      • #4
        Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
        Well, the America created by Europeans, the English will probably follow what the Spaniards and portugese created in south American, central America and mexico. That is what a future united states will probably look like.

        This influx of illegals since Reagan who legalized millions of them, has been planned, have no doubt about that. And the People, the average folks had nothing to do with it, but they kept voting for the same people who allowed it to happen.

        The question is, who really benefits from this? If you follow the path that leads to who makes money from it, or profits, you will find the culprits. Since American wages are repressed by this influx, it isn't working people who benefit. So, who does that leave?

        What it is, is a recipe for disaster, but the disaster will be experienced by average americans. You can thank the dems and the repubs for this, for they have been at the controls, and both of them allowed this to happen. So be sure you vote for one or the other in the next election. So that this will continue on. And most people will do just that. I call it the American political delusion, and the People are getting exactly the gov't that they truly deserve. It is all about personal responsibility, and most American voters are highly irresponsible. Or ignorant, no, its both. And it meets Einstein's apt definition of insanity. You keep repeating the same actions, while somehow expecting different results. I am afraid political tribalism is the most destructive thing that a free republic can ever have. It's suicidal.
        You will notice which political party is pushing hard to get amnesty for illegal immigrants. Yeah, the party of the little guy.

        ?


        • #5
          Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

          If we are talking about Immigration talk about Immigration if it's illegal aliens invading the country itks illegal aliens invading the country (not immigration).

          Blue Doggy is right to place some of the blame on Reagan policies but it goes back further to immigration reform in 68 and that bloated tiick Ted Kennedy. There has been no shortage of rich elites willing to undermine the position of the common man to boost theselves and their fellow rich men. The voters in the U.S. have let the team D vs team R game inhibit what little thought is in play and the media continues to foster propaganda for the elites that want the working classes underminded and deeper under their collective rich thumbs.

          ?


          • #6
            Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

            Originally posted by Tameamea View Post
            We talk a lot about the immigration, how much of our tax money is spent on dealing with the process, and so on. But have you ever thought about the actual scope of the problem?
            Just think about it. Since the Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals came into effect in 2012, 52 000 children have crossed the border within this program. It means their arrival was documented. But does anyone know how many kids just sneaked in?
            Still, we are a rich country; we can afford to spend $6.3 trillion to legalize one generation of immigrants. Our budget is capable of providing them with health care and social insurance. It is definitely necessary to provide them with education - $12300 a year for each kid. We have enough resources to finance more fire-fighter brigades, ambulances, police departments and so on (the services that you need to widen if the population grows). But that all is just money – renewable resource.
            How about other sides of the mass immigration from Central America? Many of these kids are gang members, so they would contribute to the drug traffic growth, and not because they are so bad, but because they need to earn money and that is something they know.
            Then, how about a health check for the kids? Who does it? How thoroughly? The kids are often sick with different types of flu, they have hepatitis and tuberculosis. Are we ready to deal with the diseases at this scale?
            Then, they soon will grow up, and grow up fast. Are they going to integrate with the American culture? Are they eager to learn English, to study and become active citizens? I don’t know. But what I know for sure, in the Catholic culture of Latin America the kids and the family are worshiped a lot, so very soon the immigrant would just simply multiply. While WASP Americans wait to start a family until their 30s, perform abortions, and so on.
            I guess this all creates a certain picture: this immigration flood might cost us the future.
            I think it was Ben Stein of all people that said "Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen" then goes on to say "Many of those who refuse, or are unable, to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens."

            When you think about it he did not say much that was wrong but it gives us a good indication of how wrong we have handled immigration to date. Politically immigration is a double victory for our friends on the left. It appeals to emotion over fiscal reality and it tends to ensure future political support in the process. I've often said this put Republicans in the worst position. The more harsh their statements look about handling this issue the more Democrats can grill them for it.

            The only way to fix immigration is to fix all of the parts that are broken. But that is even a paradox of sorts as we are talking about a solution that means enforcement of existing laws. If we do not enforce all of the laws we have on the books now there is no real expectation that we will follow future laws. At the same time what we have on the books now has some issues compounded by other issues. Namely the war on drugs.

            But that said until we start to secure this nation, until we start to enforce the laws we already have, and until we stop appealing to the emotional response from a voting group all we will do is incur future fiscal costs. Since we spend beyond means without regard to economics just about every single year going back decades now being a "rich nation" just means taking more from those to give to someone else. The last thing we need is higher taxes or more ways to tax just to funnel that money into programs like what you have mentioned. All of which have some sort of consequence.

            ?


            • #7
              Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

              And, currently, who is the main man when it comes to enforcing immigration laws?

              ?


              • #8
                IRS Confirms Illegal Immigrants Entitled to Back Tax Refunds Under Executive Amnesty

                IRS Commissioner John Koskinen told Congress on Wednesday thateven illegal immigrants who didnt pay taxes will be able to claim back-refunds once they get Social Security numbers under President Obamas temporary deportation amnesty...Mr. Koskinen, testifying to the House oversight committee, said the White House never asked him or anyone else at the IRS about the potential tax effects of his amnesty policy. I havent talked to the White House about this at all, he said...He also clarified his testimony to the Senate last week, where he acknowledged illegal immigrants who had paid taxes using substitute Social Security numbers but who gain real Social Security numbers when they are approved for the amnesty can apply for back-refunds of the Earned Income Tax Credit. On Wednesday, he said even illegal immigrants who didnt pay taxes will be able to apply for back-credits once they get Social Security numbers. The EITC is a refundable tax credit, which means those who dont have any tax liability can still get money back from the government.
                http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...-past-n1956697

                ?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                  IRS Confirms Illegal Immigrants Entitled to Back Tax Refunds Under Executive Amnesty




                  http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybens...-past-n1956697

                  Quite a bit of those earned income credits will be sent back to mexico. Won't even be spent in this nation.

                  Both the republicans and the democrats are to blame for the illegal immigration problems, the money it cost taxpayers, plus the money we borrow to finance this insanity, which is debt on our grandkids. So, since republicans and democrat voters will continue to vote these two parties back in, either the voters are stupid idiots, or they don't mind our open door immigration policies.

                  So, if you vote republican or democrat, but gripe about this, something isn't clicking into place in the brain. NOW, the question is, what would cause this?

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post


                    Quite a bit of those earned income credits will be sent back to mexico. Won't even be spent in this nation.

                    Both the republicans and the democrats are to blame for the illegal immigration problems, the money it cost taxpayers, plus the money we borrow to finance this insanity, which is debt on our grandkids. So, since republicans and democrat voters will continue to vote these two parties back in, either the voters are stupid idiots, or they don't mind our open door immigration policies.

                    So, if you vote republican or democrat, but gripe about this, something isn't clicking into place in the brain. NOW, the question is, what would cause this?

                    The Republican House voted to stop Obama's illegal amnesty program. The Democrats in the Senate have filibustered any attempt to bring the measure to the floor of the Senate.

                    ?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post


                      The Republican House voted to stop Obama's illegal amnesty program. The Democrats in the Senate have filibustered any attempt to bring the measure to the floor of the Senate.
                      Yes the democrats have. I have little confidence in either party on this issue, especially when they put everything off till after an election.

                      I seriously can not believe this is happening to this country, or that any politician tries to support it. Over, and over again, politicians have been removed because of this issue in the last 6 years, but they keep pushing it.

                      It is bad enough they are willing to avert their eyes from the problem and ignore it, but when they allow illegals to acquire 25,000 bucks per, we had all better wake up. That is the taxpayers treasure, not politicians treasure to give away.

                      I will not vote for any politician that supports these types of plans for illegals; not until my fellow Americans are back to work to the tune of under 5%, and using the REAL unemployment number. This means that; Jeb Bush will not get my vote, nor Chris Christie, Hilly, nor Joe Biden. So if this is a big issue to all of you, then we better start beating the trees to find someone who stands for us.

                      I/WE can get arrested for not having a hunting license, fishing license, drivers license, no auto insurance in most states, not paying taxes, for altering a pond on our property, etc, etc. And yet, they do not get arrested for any of the above; and YOU pay the freight here! Isn't there something wrong with that picture?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imawhosure View Post

                        Yes the democrats have. I have little confidence in either party on this issue, especially when they put everything off till after an election.

                        I seriously can not believe this is happening to this country, or that any politician tries to support it. Over, and over again, politicians have been removed because of this issue in the last 6 years, but they keep pushing it.

                        It is bad enough they are willing to avert their eyes from the problem and ignore it, but when they allow illegals to acquire 25,000 bucks per, we had all better wake up. That is the taxpayers treasure, not politicians treasure to give away.

                        I will not vote for any politician that supports these types of plans for illegals; not until my fellow Americans are back to work to the tune of under 5%, and using the REAL unemployment number. This means that; Jeb Bush will not get my vote, nor Chris Christie, Hilly, nor Joe Biden. So if this is a big issue to all of you, then we better start beating the trees to find someone who stands for us.

                        I/WE can get arrested for not having a hunting license, fishing license, drivers license, no auto insurance in most states, not paying taxes, for altering a pond on our property, etc, etc. And yet, they do not get arrested for any of the above; and YOU pay the freight here! Isn't there something wrong with that picture?
                        Yes, It's a pretty bad picture. As soon as the taxes are paid, and it get's in the hands of the politician's, they believe that it is now their's to do with it what they want. People/citizens/taxpayers, need to start catching a clue that the politicians are not acting as a tool for contributors as they are meant to be, but more like organized crime, claiming the monies they've collected as their own. At least Organized crime is recognized for what it is. Our gov't is not.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tameamea View Post
                          We talk a lot about the immigration, how much of our tax money is spent on dealing with the process, and so on. But have you ever thought about the actual scope of the problem?
                          Just think about it. Since the Deferred Action of Childhood Arrivals came into effect in 2012, 52 000 children have crossed the border within this program. It means their arrival was documented. But does anyone know how many kids just sneaked in?
                          Still, we are a rich country; we can afford to spend $6.3 trillion to legalize one generation of immigrants. Our budget is capable of providing them with health care and social insurance. It is definitely necessary to provide them with education - $12300 a year for each kid. We have enough resources to finance more fire-fighter brigades, ambulances, police departments and so on (the services that you need to widen if the population grows). But that all is just money – renewable resource.
                          How about other sides of the mass immigration from Central America? Many of these kids are gang members, so they would contribute to the drug traffic growth, and not because they are so bad, but because they need to earn money and that is something they know.
                          Then, how about a health check for the kids? Who does it? How thoroughly? The kids are often sick with different types of flu, they have hepatitis and tuberculosis. Are we ready to deal with the diseases at this scale?
                          Then, they soon will grow up, and grow up fast. Are they going to integrate with the American culture? Are they eager to learn English, to study and become active citizens? I don’t know. But what I know for sure, in the Catholic culture of Latin America the kids and the family are worshiped a lot, so very soon the immigrant would just simply multiply. While WASP Americans wait to start a family until their 30s, perform abortions, and so on.
                          I guess this all creates a certain picture: this immigration flood might cost us the future.
                          Both parties have allowed this to happen. They have allowed it to happen because this is what the elites who finance campaigns want. It makes no difference if it hurts average americans, for average americans are no longer represented by either party in DC.

                          The repubs are only playing theater, fooling their average American constituents into thinking that they would really do something to stop it. They could have stopped it cold after Reagan granted amnesty the first time. By making it a crime punishable by big fines and prison time for any employer that would hire an illegal. But they didn't, for their business constituents wanted cheap labor, and it made no difference if it was against the law or not. For even if they were caught, a few bucks would get them out of it, and that became just a cost of doing business, and employing illegals was still cheaper, even if we catch a few, just to make regular americans believe our rulers were doing their jobs, in upholding our laws. Again, pure theater. The dems like all of the influx for they think once amnesty is granted again, these people will vote for them. The repubs were willing to take that chance for they were representing the short term, profit driven interests of their business constiutents.


                          The only way our vast problems will ever be fixed is by voting 3rd party, as long as that party is not bought out by the oligarchs. Chance are, they will certainly try, unless we get honest, ethical men in those 3rd parties. But we will not do that, for the herd is too stupid, and so it will only get worse for average people as time goes on. Basically, the middle class is toast, for the globalists cannot afford them. A middle class is not a part of their paradigm. Chinese level workers are. The illegals serve this need.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                            Re: Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?



                            Well, the America created by Europeans, the English will probably follow what the Spaniards and portugese created in south American, central America and mexico. That is what a future united states will probably look like.

                            This influx of illegals since Reagan who legalized millions of them, has been planned, have no doubt about that. And the People, the average folks had nothing to do with it, but they kept voting for the same people who allowed it to happen.

                            The question is, who really benefits from this? If you follow the path that leads to who makes money from it, or profits, you will find the culprits. Since American wages are repressed by this influx, it isn't working people who benefit. So, who does that leave?

                            What it is, is a recipe for disaster, but the disaster will be experienced by average americans. You can thank the dems and the repubs for this, for they have been at the controls, and both of them allowed this to happen. So be sure you vote for one or the other in the next election. So that this will continue on. And most people will do just that. I call it the American political delusion, and the People are getting exactly the gov't that they truly deserve. It is all about personal responsibility, and most American voters are highly irresponsible. Or ignorant, no, its both. And it meets Einstein's apt definition of insanity. You keep repeating the same actions, while somehow expecting different results. I am afraid political tribalism is the most destructive thing that a free republic can ever have. It's suicidal.
                            No, the American people are not getting what they deserve! We deserve much better. As individuals our choices are limited. Individually it's impossible to fight against a gov't that has been overrun by imperialists. What we need is a leader of integrity with the ability to bring the individuals together so we can accomplish what only a mass can accomplish. Individually, the best we can do is vote, and where is the option to vote for such a leader?

                            I myself, believe the only logical solution is to secure All boarders. Kick out every person that has come to, or stayed in this country illegally, as they knew they were committing an illegal act. The only reasonable show of compassion for children already here would be, to allow the children to stay if their parents choose to leave them behind. That alone is a large show of compassion as the cost for that alone is taking quite a financial tole on the American people. But as the boarders are secured, the American people will not have to suffer more financial burden in the future. The process for anyone entering the country will be the same for ALL, from every country. Continue the immigration to America, but with extensive vetting and sponsorship by an American citizen, which could be in the way of a secured job. And no, it will not seem fair to many who can't gain entry by no fault of their own, but no immigration law will seem fair to ALL. The current system is not fair either, to many that desperately want to come here, but can't. In addition the current system is not fair to the American citizens. At least with my proposal of immigration law, it will be fair to American citizens and a better country for new immigrants to enter. Really there is no other sensible option, that won't take down the fiber of the US.
                            Last edited by msc; 02-22-2015, 07:30 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post


                              Quite a bit of those earned income credits will be sent back to mexico. Won't even be spent in this nation.

                              Both the republicans and the democrats are to blame for the illegal immigration problems, the money it cost taxpayers, plus the money we borrow to finance this insanity, which is debt on our grandkids. So, since republicans and democrat voters will continue to vote these two parties back in, either the voters are stupid idiots, or they don't mind our open door immigration policies.

                              So, if you vote republican or democrat, but gripe about this, something isn't clicking into place in the brain. NOW, the question is, what would cause this?
                              BD, Enough of complaining about voters being responsible because they vote Dem. or Repub. Easy to say what should not be done, but that resolves nothing. Give some other options! What would you propose individuals, should do in order to be exempt from your accusation of stupidity.

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