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Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

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  • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
    Very true. I've merely proposed we back the current strategy -already developed mostly by LA teams of prosecuting attorneys. You continue to respond as if I'm supporting a policy where the US does the heavy lifting. -Or maybe you are merely emphasizing your point or general rule, that one country cannot solve (without help) deep-seated problems in other countries? I'd agree with that.

    Your second point, no obligation to let people into our country "just because their own country is a mess", is a mix of wishful thinking and detachment from the facts of our geography. A certain and large number of people in those countries will attempt to get into the US because 1) they have absolutely nothing to lose by trying, when compared to their options for staying. And 2) they can walk across our border or overstay a temporary work visa after getting bus transportation to a job. In short, it's relatively cheap, easy and their motivation is often a threat to their life.

    -That's why it's going to be very expensive to simply prevent panic immigration by increased enforcement and physical barriers. There is potentially an endless supply of people willing to break our immigration laws moving forward. Ignoring the reasons behind that supply is to give up. Are you willing to provide large sums of money to those arguing for increasing immigration enforcement and more elaborate barriers on our borders, with no end in sight for that increased funding?
    I am not against efforts to help countries to the south with their corruption problems. I don't see it as a solution to our illegal immigration problems. Even if we could help make those countries safer for people, which is questionable at best, we have no idea what effect that would have on the movement of people. In Guatemala the largest source of foreign currency is people sending money home from the US. I think that gives us a pretty good clue as to why Guatemalans want to come here.

    I am a pragmatist for the most part. I like solutions that work best. There are hardly ever perfect solutions, but there are good, better, and best.

    It seems obvious to me that in order to tackle the illegal immigrant problem there are two courses of action that need to be taken. Make it harder to get here, and make it less attractive to come here. That means securing the border and stepping up enforcement against, and penalties for, offenders both illegal employers and the illegal migrants themselves. As you point out there is an unlimited supply of people who want to come here and will break our laws to do it. That's why it is important to make it harder and less attractive for them to do so. There should be no catch and release. People need to know that if they are caught in this country illegally they will do hard time. Sure it will be expensive. Fighting any kind of crime is expensive. Can we not afford to control illegal migration into our country? I think we can't afford not to.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

      I am not against efforts to help countries to the south with their corruption problems. I don't see it as a solution to our illegal immigration problems. Even if we could help make those countries safer for people, which is questionable at best, we have no idea what effect that would have on the movement of people. In Guatemala the largest source of foreign currency is people sending money home from the US. I think that gives us a pretty good clue as to why Guatemalans want to come here.

      I am a pragmatist for the most part. I like solutions that work best. There are hardly ever perfect solutions, but there are good, better, and best.

      It seems obvious to me that in order to tackle the illegal immigrant problem there are two courses of action that need to be taken. Make it harder to get here, and make it less attractive to come here. That means securing the border and stepping up enforcement against, and penalties for, offenders both illegal employers and the illegal migrants themselves. As you point out there is an unlimited supply of people who want to come here and will break our laws to do it. That's why it is important to make it harder and less attractive for them to do so. There should be no catch and release. People need to know that if they are caught in this country illegally they will do hard time. Sure it will be expensive. Fighting any kind of crime is expensive. Can we not afford to control illegal migration into our country? I think we can't afford not to.
      What Jesus want us to do?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

        I am not against efforts to help countries to the south with their corruption problems. I don't see it as a solution to our illegal immigration problems. Even if we could help make those countries safer for people, which is questionable at best, we have no idea what effect that would have on the movement of people. In Guatemala the largest source of foreign currency is people sending money home from the US. I think that gives us a pretty good clue as to why Guatemalans want to come here.

        I am a pragmatist for the most part. I like solutions that work best. There are hardly ever perfect solutions, but there are good, better, and best.

        It seems obvious to me that in order to tackle the illegal immigrant problem there are two courses of action that need to be taken. Make it harder to get here, and make it less attractive to come here. That means securing the border and stepping up enforcement against, and penalties for, offenders both illegal employers and the illegal migrants themselves. As you point out there is an unlimited supply of people who want to come here and will break our laws to do it. That's why it is important to make it harder and less attractive for them to do so. There should be no catch and release. People need to know that if they are caught in this country illegally they will do hard time. Sure it will be expensive. Fighting any kind of crime is expensive. Can we not afford to control illegal migration into our country? I think we can't afford not to.
        When a person is threatened with death (slow or fast, and unnatural) in their home country, your plan to "make it more difficult" with our immigration policy will always fall short. You will be pouring your tax money into what seems like a bottomless hole, with no end in sight.

        My argument allows for walls and better enforcement of immigration law, similar to part of your argument. Unlike yours, my argument also pushes a lower taxpayer cost for immigration policy moving forward. That won't happen unless the "remittance or die" policy in many parts of Latin America improves.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Originally posted by redrover View Post

          What Jesus want us to do?
          Even if Jesus isn't the bleeding heart liberal that some would have us believe, he should be a decent business person. Throwing money down a hole with no measurable objective achieved is bad business, whether it is a private or public sector operation.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
            Even if Jesus isn't the bleeding heart liberal that some would have us believe, he should be a decent business person. Throwing money down a hole with no measurable objective achieved is bad business, whether it is a private or public sector operation.
            Trump has swung from saying that border crossings have gone down 61% since his election to saying that caravans of illegals are coming in. I need my wally. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...1-percent-ele/

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              When a person is threatened with death (slow or fast, and unnatural) in their home country, your plan to "make it more difficult" with our immigration policy will always fall short. You will be pouring your tax money into what seems like a bottomless hole, with no end in sight.

              My argument allows for walls and better enforcement of immigration law, similar to part of your argument. Unlike yours, my argument also pushes a lower taxpayer cost for immigration policy moving forward. That won't happen unless the "remittance or die" policy in many parts of Latin America improves.
              Where is the disagreement here? You agree with the wall and more enforcement measures and I agree with trying to help source countries with their corruption problems.

              You say your plan will result in lower costs to taxpayers but my plan won't? How can that be? They are the same.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Originally posted by Brexx View Post

                Where is the disagreement here? You agree with the wall and more enforcement measures and I agree with trying to help source countries with their corruption problems.

                You say your plan will result in lower costs to taxpayers but my plan won't? How can that be? They are the same.
                Good enuf. For a long list of posts, you gave me the clear impression you would be willing to spend next to nothing on problems in "other countries".

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Originally posted by radcentr View Post

                  Good enuf. For a long list of posts, you gave me the clear impression you would be willing to spend next to nothing on problems in "other countries".
                  ISIS has gone underground in Syria so Trump wants to pull out the military and deploy them on the Mexican border to build a human wall because congress won't give him the money to build his pretty wall with the underground sensors and solar panels.I think the hollowing out of the state department has been a disastrous mistake at a time when relationships with other countries are so important now that we have a president who conducts foreign policy via Tweet while he sits on the potty.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                    ISIS has gone underground in Syria so Trump wants to pull out the military and deploy them on the Mexican border to build a human wall because congress won't give him the money to build his pretty wall with the underground sensors and solar panels.I think the hollowing out of the state department has been a disastrous mistake at a time when relationships with other countries are so important now that we have a president who conducts foreign policy via Tweet while he sits on the potty.
                    I wonder which empire in history was able to keep out the problems of other countries by building a wall. China? How about the strategy of friendlies leading allied states that may or may not have starving masses. If they get out of hand, send in our own troops. Throw out some bait, like citizenship (er, I meant residency) if a foreigner serves in the empire's army. Rome?

                    I'm sure there is a way to spend a lot less on diplomacy and stuff like that. Think of the money we'll save.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                      I wonder which empire in history was able to keep out the problems of other countries by building a wall. China? How about the strategy of friendlies leading allied states that may or may not have starving masses. If they get out of hand, send in our own troops. Throw out some bait, like citizenship (er, I meant residency) if a foreigner serves in the empire's army. Rome?

                      I'm sure there is a way to spend a lot less on diplomacy and stuff like that. Think of the money we'll save.
                      Trump has been riding his horse across the countryside sounding the alarm to arms the Mexicans are coming. The national guard stands with loaded muskets to preserve our freedom.Why don't we just nuke Mexico and get it over with. or Nuke Texas so they won't want to come here.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Originally posted by redrover View Post

                        Trump has been riding his horse across the countryside sounding the alarm to arms the Mexicans are coming. The national guard stands with loaded muskets to preserve our freedom.Why don't we just nuke Mexico and get it over with. or Nuke Texas so they won't want to come here.
                        It will be wonderful. People will be happy to pay extra for all the work currently done by "documentation-other-abled" folks from non-american countries. Think of how our domestic economy will bloom without all this illegal immigration stuff to worry about. Payday loan outlets, blood plasma donation centers, drug rehabilitation clinics, used car lots, pawn shops ...the list goes on and on. All the "bright future" things that made us the world leader. I should get a job writing wonderfully happy press releases for the WH.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • I saw an interesting show yesterday on AMH. ABOUT THE 1943 Zoot suit riots in LA when Us sailors dragged Mexican teens out of theaters and off the streets and beat them with clubs while the police stepped back and let it happen. So forget the national guard. Send in the navy.https://timeline.com/zoot-suit-riots...s-8e5b34775cff

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • It just keeps getting better & better.

                            Now we know for sure that it's great for America to continue importing more "immigrants" "refugees" and whatever else there are out there -- BRING 'EM ON OVER !

                            Grandma needs some compa... wait, what ? No...

                            "Don't paint with too broad a brush" I've been told SO many times.

                            Still

                            We have enough of our own problems, we DO NOT NEED TO IMPORT MORE, NEW AND UNIQUE ONES !!!

                            There is NO justification for it. Any of it.

                            We're doing this to ourselves.

                            It's always interesting to watch how ... nevermind, we'll just watch.

                            ---------------------------------------

                            Third World immigration is making our country more colorful: elder rape.

                            Usually the vibrant cultural diversity that immigrants bring runs more along the lines of child rape, drunk driving and food stamp fraud. But our official government policy of importing the Third World also means we're going to have a lot more elder rape, too.

                            Thank you, Teddy Kennedy! Something for the seniors.

                            ...a few days ago, jury selection began in the trial of illegal alien Victor Aureliano Martinez Ramirez and anchor baby Jose Fernando Villagomez for the rape, torture and murder of 64-year-old Marilyn Pharis.

                            Pharis was attacked in 2015, just a few weeks after Kate Steinle was killed by an illegal in San Francisco -- a wondrous moment in time when Donald Trump wanted to deport illegals, rather than call them "Dreamers" and give them amnesty.

                            Like Steinle's killer, Martinez Ramirez had a lengthy and impressive arrest record in this country, including felony assault with intent to commit sexual assault. A week before his violent home invasion, he was released from jail on drug and weapons charges.

                            We don't know the details of the recent attack because the perps have VIP status, requiring the utmost discretion from our media. But based on what is known, the crime sounds pretty gruesome.

                            Pharis was attacked at 10 in the morning, at home, sleeping in her own bed, after working a night shift at Vandenberg Air Force Base. According to the dry legal charges and hospital report, she was penetrated with a "foreign object" and beaten with a hammer, leaving her with a broken neck and broken eye sockets. Pharis survived, managed to call the police and was taken to a hospital, where she died eight days later.

                            ..here are a few more examples of this multicultural trait we are importing for no good reason.


                            [ There IS one good reason. It's called stupidity. ]

                            Sergio Martinez-Perez was the sort of hardworking undocumented immigrant from Mexico we keep hearing so much about from elected Republicans angling for campaign donations from the Koch brothers. He "played by the rules," working in Omaha, Nebraska, as a roofer. (Roofing is well known to be a job Americans just won't do.) Only 19 years old, Sergio was a "Dreamer." They're "absolutely incredible kids!"

                            One summer night in 2013, Sergio got drunk and broke into the home of 93-year-old Louise Sollowin, savagely beat her, breaking her nose and orbital bones, then ripped off her adult diaper and raped her. Sollowin's daughter had put her mother to bed earlier that night. When she returned at 8:30 the following morning, she found Sergio lying naked and passed out on top of her mother's bloody body. Three days later, Louise Sollowin died.

                            Sergio would already have been on a bullet train to legal status had Marco Rubio's amnesty passed. (Just think of all the Sergios a Trump amnesty will get us!)

                            Mexican illegal immigrant Victor Manuel Batres Martinez raped, sodomized and beat two nuns in their 50s, strangling one to death with her own rosary beads. By the time of his nun-rape in 2002, Martinez had already been arrested multiple times before for kidnapping, robbery and possession of narcotics. Under the rigorous immigration enforcement procedures of the Clinton and Bush administrations, Martinez had been "ordered" deported three times, meaning he signed a note three times promising to leave.

                            In 2013, Antonio Nieto, a certified nursing assistant, was convicted of sexually assaulting patients in a nursing home. The staff didn't believe the first victim, a 59-year-old woman, who was considered a complainer for objecting to the facility's oppressive anti-smoking rules. This allowed two more female patients to be sexually assaulted by Nieto, one 73 years old, and the other 93. (Always believe the smoker!)

                            Nieto needed a Spanish translator at trial. Don't say Third World immigrants aren't creating jobs!

                            In 2008, a rash of rapes of women older than 60 in Texas finally ended when the police arrested Jose Ayala Nunez, a Honduran illegal immigrant, who later pleaded guilty to the assaults.

                            Isn't a wall beginning to sound like a deal at any price?

                            Twenty-four-year-old Parkpoom Seesangrit, an anchor baby, was a student at the American International College in Springfield, Massachusetts, when he was arrested in May 2014 for raping a 69-year-old dementia patient at the nursing home where he worked.

                            When caught by a nurse, he said, "I am sorry. I know it looks bad. I am in trouble." He later claimed he was merely changing the victim's diaper when he slipped and "digitally penetrated her." He admitted to slipping on another occasion when he was taking the same patient to the bathroom.

                            Seesangrit was convicted and sentenced to six to eight years in prison. He needed a Thai interpreter at trial. (Immigration SAVES taxpayers money!)

                            Last month, 23-year-old Ghanaian immigrant Fode Doukoure pleaded guilty to raping a 74-year-old woman.

                            The first time, he merely fondled the wheelchair-bound woman. The second time, he doused her in pepper spray, then held an anesthesia-soaked rag over her mouth, knocking her out for about an hour. When the woman awoke, her hands were bound and her underwear was on backward.

                            (Who wanted Norwegians, anyway?)

                            Doukoure promised Pennsylvania state court judge Christylee Peck to "stay out of trouble and stay away from people who would put trouble in my way." Like 74-year-old hussies in wheelchairs -- that's trouble with a capital T!

                            Melted by his words, Judge Peck sentenced Doukoure to the 16 months he'd already spent in county lockup, awaiting trial, so he was released immediately and is now well on his way to taking Joy Reid's job at MSNBC.




                            http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/20...html#read_more

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                            • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post
                              It just keeps getting better & better.

                              Now we know for sure that it's great for America to continue importing more "immigrants" "refugees" and whatever else there are out there -- BRING 'EM ON OVER !

                              Grandma needs some compa... wait, what ? No...

                              "Don't paint with too broad a brush" I've been told SO many times.

                              Still

                              We have enough of our own problems, we DO NOT NEED TO IMPORT MORE, NEW AND UNIQUE ONES !!!

                              There is NO justification for it. Any of it.

                              We're doing this to ourselves.

                              It's always interesting to watch how ... nevermind, we'll just watch.

                              ---------------------------------------

                              Third World immigration is making our country more colorful: elder rape.

                              Usually the vibrant cultural diversity that immigrants bring runs more along the lines of child rape, drunk driving and food stamp fraud. But our official government policy of importing the Third World also means we're going to have a lot more elder rape, too.

                              Thank you, Teddy Kennedy! Something for the seniors.

                              ...a few days ago, jury selection began in the trial of illegal alien Victor Aureliano Martinez Ramirez and anchor baby Jose Fernando Villagomez for the rape, torture and murder of 64-year-old Marilyn Pharis.

                              Pharis was attacked in 2015, just a few weeks after Kate Steinle was killed by an illegal in San Francisco -- a wondrous moment in time when Donald Trump wanted to deport illegals, rather than call them "Dreamers" and give them amnesty.

                              Like Steinle's killer, Martinez Ramirez had a lengthy and impressive arrest record in this country, including felony assault with intent to commit sexual assault. A week before his violent home invasion, he was released from jail on drug and weapons charges.

                              We don't know the details of the recent attack because the perps have VIP status, requiring the utmost discretion from our media. But based on what is known, the crime sounds pretty gruesome.

                              Pharis was attacked at 10 in the morning, at home, sleeping in her own bed, after working a night shift at Vandenberg Air Force Base. According to the dry legal charges and hospital report, she was penetrated with a "foreign object" and beaten with a hammer, leaving her with a broken neck and broken eye sockets. Pharis survived, managed to call the police and was taken to a hospital, where she died eight days later.

                              ..here are a few more examples of this multicultural trait we are importing for no good reason.


                              [ There IS one good reason. It's called stupidity. ]

                              Sergio Martinez-Perez was the sort of hardworking undocumented immigrant from Mexico we keep hearing so much about from elected Republicans angling for campaign donations from the Koch brothers. He "played by the rules," working in Omaha, Nebraska, as a roofer. (Roofing is well known to be a job Americans just won't do.) Only 19 years old, Sergio was a "Dreamer." They're "absolutely incredible kids!"

                              One summer night in 2013, Sergio got drunk and broke into the home of 93-year-old Louise Sollowin, savagely beat her, breaking her nose and orbital bones, then ripped off her adult diaper and raped her. Sollowin's daughter had put her mother to bed earlier that night. When she returned at 8:30 the following morning, she found Sergio lying naked and passed out on top of her mother's bloody body. Three days later, Louise Sollowin died.

                              Sergio would already have been on a bullet train to legal status had Marco Rubio's amnesty passed. (Just think of all the Sergios a Trump amnesty will get us!)

                              Mexican illegal immigrant Victor Manuel Batres Martinez raped, sodomized and beat two nuns in their 50s, strangling one to death with her own rosary beads. By the time of his nun-rape in 2002, Martinez had already been arrested multiple times before for kidnapping, robbery and possession of narcotics. Under the rigorous immigration enforcement procedures of the Clinton and Bush administrations, Martinez had been "ordered" deported three times, meaning he signed a note three times promising to leave.

                              In 2013, Antonio Nieto, a certified nursing assistant, was convicted of sexually assaulting patients in a nursing home. The staff didn't believe the first victim, a 59-year-old woman, who was considered a complainer for objecting to the facility's oppressive anti-smoking rules. This allowed two more female patients to be sexually assaulted by Nieto, one 73 years old, and the other 93. (Always believe the smoker!)

                              Nieto needed a Spanish translator at trial. Don't say Third World immigrants aren't creating jobs!

                              In 2008, a rash of rapes of women older than 60 in Texas finally ended when the police arrested Jose Ayala Nunez, a Honduran illegal immigrant, who later pleaded guilty to the assaults.

                              Isn't a wall beginning to sound like a deal at any price?

                              Twenty-four-year-old Parkpoom Seesangrit, an anchor baby, was a student at the American International College in Springfield, Massachusetts, when he was arrested in May 2014 for raping a 69-year-old dementia patient at the nursing home where he worked.

                              When caught by a nurse, he said, "I am sorry. I know it looks bad. I am in trouble." He later claimed he was merely changing the victim's diaper when he slipped and "digitally penetrated her." He admitted to slipping on another occasion when he was taking the same patient to the bathroom.

                              Seesangrit was convicted and sentenced to six to eight years in prison. He needed a Thai interpreter at trial. (Immigration SAVES taxpayers money!)

                              Last month, 23-year-old Ghanaian immigrant Fode Doukoure pleaded guilty to raping a 74-year-old woman.

                              The first time, he merely fondled the wheelchair-bound woman. The second time, he doused her in pepper spray, then held an anesthesia-soaked rag over her mouth, knocking her out for about an hour. When the woman awoke, her hands were bound and her underwear was on backward.

                              (Who wanted Norwegians, anyway?)

                              Doukoure promised Pennsylvania state court judge Christylee Peck to "stay out of trouble and stay away from people who would put trouble in my way." Like 74-year-old hussies in wheelchairs -- that's trouble with a capital T!

                              Melted by his words, Judge Peck sentenced Doukoure to the 16 months he'd already spent in county lockup, awaiting trial, so he was released immediately and is now well on his way to taking Joy Reid's job at MSNBC.




                              http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/20...html#read_more
                              Here is a truer picture of immigration at least in my opinion watch http://robertreich.org/post/131585289045

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                              • Originally posted by redrover View Post
                                Here is a truer picture of immigration at least in my opinion watch http://robertreich.org/post/131585289045
                                Yeah, the man talks about "immigration facts" then goes on to tell lies.

                                Near the end of his writing he states:

                                "Don’t listen to the demagogues who want to blame the economic problems of the middle class and poor on new immigrants, whether here legally or illegally. The real problem is the economic game is rigged in favor of a handful at the top, who are doing the rigging."

                                He tells us not to listen to demagogues, as he proves that's who he is !

                                Then of course; "The real problem is the economic game is rigged in favor of a handful at the top, who are doing the rigging."

                                It's the same envy driven nonsense that we get from all political types who want to sell us bad ideas.

                                Unfortunately we see too much of this from the left. Dishonesty used to prove dishonesty, it's just pitiful....

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