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Immigration: have you ever thought about the actual cost?

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  • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

    Yeah, the man talks about "immigration facts" then goes on to tell lies.

    Near the end of his writing he states:

    "Dont listen to the demagogues who want to blame the economic problems of the middle class and poor on new immigrants, whether here legally or illegally. The real problem is the economic game is rigged in favor of a handful at the top, who are doing the rigging."

    He tells us not to listen to demagogues, as he proves that's who he is !

    Then of course; "The real problem is the economic game is rigged in favor of a handful at the top, who are doing the rigging."

    It's the same envy driven nonsense that we get from all political types who want to sell us bad ideas.

    Unfortunately we see too much of this from the left. Dishonesty used to prove dishonesty, it's just pitiful....
    Why don't you produce some of your own demographics to show that we don't need immigrants. Something with some numbers in it. like this one. https://cis.org/Immigration-Aging-Society

    ?


    • Originally posted by redrover View Post
      Why don't you produce some of your own demographics to show that we don't need immigrants. Something with some numbers in it. like this one. https://cis.org/Immigration-Aging-Society
      I wonder if it mentions somewhere in this long article about how we're killing our own - we murder many innocent Americans every year with abortion.

      It's not unfair or irrational to consider that if we weren't doing this to the extent that we do, maybe we wouldn't think we needed to import so many "immigrants" as a fix for our Suicidal Tendencies.

      But yes, much of our population is aging and not being replaced by normal methods - which is mostly a cultural and economic issue..plus the fact that - instead of like some fish who eat their young, we just KILL them ! So we can feel good about ourselves, sick no ?

      I wonder if the numbers of those we murder to suit this idea that murder is "a womans right," might closely match the numbers of legal and illegal immigrants we allow into America... something to consider.

      ?


      • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

        I wonder if it mentions somewhere in this long article about how we're killing our own - we murder many innocent Americans every year with abortion.

        It's not unfair or irrational to consider that if we weren't doing this to the extent that we do, maybe we wouldn't think we needed to import so many "immigrants" as a fix for our Suicidal Tendencies.

        But yes, much of our population is aging and not being replaced by normal methods - which is mostly a cultural and economic issue..plus the fact that - instead of like some fish who eat their young, we just KILL them ! So we can feel good about ourselves, sick no ?

        I wonder if the numbers of those we murder to suit this idea that murder is "a womans right," might closely match the numbers of legal and illegal immigrants we allow into America... something to consider.
        If I had been faced with the prospect of bringing a child into Trump America I'd have to give it a lot of thought. Why anyone would want to immigrate here any more than I can understand why anyone would want to immigrate to Germany in 1938.

        ?


        • Originally posted by redrover View Post

          If I had been faced with the prospect of bringing a child into Trump America I'd have to give it a lot of thought. Why anyone would want to immigrate here any more than I can understand why anyone would want to immigrate to Germany in 1938.
          This would be great news for America if all in the world thought that way... My hope is that all non-Americans adopt the "rover-doctrine" LOL

          ?


          • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

            This would be great news for America if all in the world thought that way... My hope is that all non-Americans adopt the "rover-doctrine" LOL
            The sad fact is we need immigrants as much if not more than they need us. Even the Irish have removed the ban on abortion. You always used to be able to count on the Irish Catholics to have at least five kids.https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/2...-abortion-ban/

            ?


            • Originally posted by redrover View Post
              The sad fact is we need immigrants as much if not more than they need us. Even the Irish have removed the ban on abortion. You always used to be able to count on the Irish Catholics to have at least five kids.https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/2...-abortion-ban/
              No, we actually don't "need" immigrants.

              That's part of the rover doctrine, and it's false.

              ?


              • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                No, we actually don't "need" immigrants.

                That's part of the rover doctrine, and it's false.
                Are you afraid that your kids couldn't win in open competition with immigrants? what is your counter argument against the demographic trends? Here is another article that comes at the issue from a little different angle.https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/i...ore-than-ever/

                ?


                • Originally posted by redrover View Post
                  Are you afraid that your kids couldn't win in open competition with immigrants? what is your counter argument against the demographic trends? Here is another article that comes at the issue from a little different angle.https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/i...ore-than-ever/
                  So I take it you disagree with those who say all countries should be shrinking their populations, not growing them - "for the sake of the planet".

                  ?


                  • Originally posted by redrover View Post
                    Are you afraid that your kids couldn't win in open competition with immigrants?
                    Why would you ask such a question ?

                    You don't have to answer that LOL

                    Originally posted by redrover View Post
                    what is your counter argument against the demographic trends? Here is another article that comes at the issue from a little different angle.https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/i...ore-than-ever/
                    It's an interesting article talking about Americas "stuckness." But it makes no honest argument showing any real need to keep shipping more people in.

                    We don't need more welfare recipients and criminals to satisfy any demographic trends. If we want to help our lack of population replacement by procreation, we FIRST need to stop discouraging and/or penalizing people to do so and rethink our culture.

                    "We need to attack the prevalent culture and call it out for its lies."..."The bottom line is no matter what sort of legal immigration policy we adopt, what wall we build, or how many people we deport unless the U.S. starts making more Americans our country is headed for a world of hurt."


                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Given that shrinking populations are bad -- except for the people-hating ecofreaks who are more concerned about animals than humans -- how do we fix the problem without importing millions of people who dont share American ideals like individual liberty, personal responsibility, and tolerance?

                    The best solution is for Americans to start having more babies. Unfortunately, the leftist war on civilized culture has corrupted American culture to the point that people view babies as a burden, or slightly better as a fashion accessory, not as a blessing.

                    A few of the reasons that the average American has fewer children:


                    1. Children are portrayed in culture as burdens

                    2. People are told by the culture to be selfish

                    3. The culture says that sex isnt about procreation at all its all about personal pleasure

                    4. The purpose of marriage is to make the spouses happier not to replenish the human race

                    5. Government programs have reduced the need for children to take care of us in our old age

                    6. The vast wealth of the U.S. means that children are rarely needed to work in the family business

                    7. Children exist for the good of the parents.

                    8. A successful woman is like a man

                    Most modern entertainment stresses what a pain children are. They keep you up at night, they cost a fortune, they make trouble, etc. Basically, a totally untrue portrayal of what life with children is like. Its rare that anything in the culture, other than content generated by explicitly religious sources, shows what a blessing children are. The reality is that when a child is born into a family that family is suddenly filled with love. There is nothing as rewarding as raising a child but for young people coming from small families all they see in the culture are the problems; no wonder theyre not keen on settling down and having their own children.

                    The culture tells us we need that new car or that fancy vacation. But since children do cost money they are viewed by the culture as impediments to parents meeting their needs. The reality is that couples who intentionally avoid having children -- not people who either never find the right one or who cant have children -- are selfish takers who spend their money on themselves instead of investing in Americas future. Couples who raise their children invest a huge amount of money producing the future Americans who will pay the Social Security for and take care of those couples who just said no to children. But if marriage is all about the couple being happy, which is the message modern culture sends, then its fine to not waste money on kids.

                    Historically, sex has had two components; a way to show love and a way to produce children. By declaring that producing children isnt important, much of the incentive for men to settle down and support the next generation of children goes away. If men can get all the sex they want without any commitment many men will go for it.

                    While the idea behind programs like Medicare and Social Security are good, they effectively transfer the responsibility for the elderly from the family to society as a whole. Hence a family with no children who spent all their money on themselves will be supported in their old age by the taxes of the children who were paid for by others. In our world, the huge advantage of having kids to look after us in our old age is significantly mitigated by government policy.

                    Similarly, since unskilled kids are rarely useful in the family business another historical incentive that would offset the cost of children has been removed.

                    To the extent that the culture does view having children as something less than an unmitigated burden it does so by saying what the children do for the parents. How often does the culture swoon over having two kids, a boy for dad and a girl for mom? But in doing so the culture tells us we have no responsibility for the future and that if our children dont make our lives better weve been cheated. Is it any wonder that violence against children is on the rise? Clearly, if children are fashion accessories designed to enhance the lives of their parents, many will eschew such a risky and significant expense and just buy a fancy car instead.

                    While many worry about losing America due to the massive influx of immigrants, legal and illegal, who dont share our American values the reality is that unless Americans make more Americans the dissolution of our constitutional republic is inevitable.

                    We need to attack the prevalent culture and call it out for its lies. We need to let people know that there is no greater blessing than a child nor any profession which is superior to being a mother. We dont need to discriminate against women in the workplace we simply need to tell women that their natural desire to have and raise kids, ticking biological clock anyone, is a sign of greatness not a badge of shame.

                    We also need to modify how we deal with the elderly. ObamaCare, for example, taxed all the children of the families who invested in children to reduce the medical costs of couples who didnt invest in children. Social Security, as currently structured, is a huge tax on the children of others for those couples who didnt have children. Now this doesnt mean that we have to end a government safety net but perhaps we need to make the child deduction on taxes much higher. Similarly we can convert Social Security into a defined contribution program so that the childless arent stealing from those who have invested in children.

                    The bottom line is no matter what sort of legal immigration policy we adopt, what wall we build, or how many people we deport unless the U.S. starts making more Americans our country is headed for a world of hurt.



                    https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...essential.html

                    ?


                    • Originally posted by Captain Trips View Post

                      Why would you ask such a question ?

                      You don't have to answer that LOL



                      It's an interesting article talking about Americas "stuckness." But it makes no honest argument showing any real need to keep shipping more people in.

                      We don't need more welfare recipients and criminals to satisfy any demographic trends. If we want to help our lack of population replacement by procreation, we FIRST need to stop discouraging and/or penalizing people to do so and rethink our culture.

                      "We need to attack the prevalent culture and call it out for its lies."..."The bottom line is no matter what sort of legal immigration policy we adopt, what wall we build, or how many people we deport unless the U.S. starts making more Americans our country is headed for a world of hurt."


                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Given that shrinking populations are bad -- except for the people-hating ecofreaks who are more concerned about animals than humans -- how do we fix the problem without importing millions of people who dont share American ideals like individual liberty, personal responsibility, and tolerance?

                      The best solution is for Americans to start having more babies. Unfortunately, the leftist war on civilized culture has corrupted American culture to the point that people view babies as a burden, or slightly better as a fashion accessory, not as a blessing.

                      A few of the reasons that the average American has fewer children:


                      1. Children are portrayed in culture as burdens

                      2. People are told by the culture to be selfish

                      3. The culture says that sex isnt about procreation at all its all about personal pleasure

                      4. The purpose of marriage is to make the spouses happier not to replenish the human race

                      5. Government programs have reduced the need for children to take care of us in our old age

                      6. The vast wealth of the U.S. means that children are rarely needed to work in the family business

                      7. Children exist for the good of the parents.

                      8. A successful woman is like a man

                      Most modern entertainment stresses what a pain children are. They keep you up at night, they cost a fortune, they make trouble, etc. Basically, a totally untrue portrayal of what life with children is like. Its rare that anything in the culture, other than content generated by explicitly religious sources, shows what a blessing children are. The reality is that when a child is born into a family that family is suddenly filled with love. There is nothing as rewarding as raising a child but for young people coming from small families all they see in the culture are the problems; no wonder theyre not keen on settling down and having their own children.

                      The culture tells us we need that new car or that fancy vacation. But since children do cost money they are viewed by the culture as impediments to parents meeting their needs. The reality is that couples who intentionally avoid having children -- not people who either never find the right one or who cant have children -- are selfish takers who spend their money on themselves instead of investing in Americas future. Couples who raise their children invest a huge amount of money producing the future Americans who will pay the Social Security for and take care of those couples who just said no to children. But if marriage is all about the couple being happy, which is the message modern culture sends, then its fine to not waste money on kids.

                      Historically, sex has had two components; a way to show love and a way to produce children. By declaring that producing children isnt important, much of the incentive for men to settle down and support the next generation of children goes away. If men can get all the sex they want without any commitment many men will go for it.

                      While the idea behind programs like Medicare and Social Security are good, they effectively transfer the responsibility for the elderly from the family to society as a whole. Hence a family with no children who spent all their money on themselves will be supported in their old age by the taxes of the children who were paid for by others. In our world, the huge advantage of having kids to look after us in our old age is significantly mitigated by government policy.

                      Similarly, since unskilled kids are rarely useful in the family business another historical incentive that would offset the cost of children has been removed.

                      To the extent that the culture does view having children as something less than an unmitigated burden it does so by saying what the children do for the parents. How often does the culture swoon over having two kids, a boy for dad and a girl for mom? But in doing so the culture tells us we have no responsibility for the future and that if our children dont make our lives better weve been cheated. Is it any wonder that violence against children is on the rise? Clearly, if children are fashion accessories designed to enhance the lives of their parents, many will eschew such a risky and significant expense and just buy a fancy car instead.

                      While many worry about losing America due to the massive influx of immigrants, legal and illegal, who dont share our American values the reality is that unless Americans make more Americans the dissolution of our constitutional republic is inevitable.

                      We need to attack the prevalent culture and call it out for its lies. We need to let people know that there is no greater blessing than a child nor any profession which is superior to being a mother. We dont need to discriminate against women in the workplace we simply need to tell women that their natural desire to have and raise kids, ticking biological clock anyone, is a sign of greatness not a badge of shame.

                      We also need to modify how we deal with the elderly. ObamaCare, for example, taxed all the children of the families who invested in children to reduce the medical costs of couples who didnt invest in children. Social Security, as currently structured, is a huge tax on the children of others for those couples who didnt have children. Now this doesnt mean that we have to end a government safety net but perhaps we need to make the child deduction on taxes much higher. Similarly we can convert Social Security into a defined contribution program so that the childless arent stealing from those who have invested in children.

                      The bottom line is no matter what sort of legal immigration policy we adopt, what wall we build, or how many people we deport unless the U.S. starts making more Americans our country is headed for a world of hurt.



                      https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...essential.html
                      The American thinker never fails to deliver does it? What do those wacky liberals think that America is some kind of melting pot? Imagine immigrants coming here to improve their lives and not to rape and murder. Preposterous. Just look what happened when we let the Irish in with their papist religion.

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                      • Originally posted by redrover View Post
                        The American thinker never fails to deliver does it?
                        It always makes you so happy, therefore that is correct !

                        Originally posted by redrover View Post
                        What do those wacky liberals think that America is some kind of melting pot?
                        No, they want it more like a chamber pot.

                        Originally posted by redrover View Post
                        Imagine immigrants coming here to improve their lives and not to rape and murder. Preposterous. Just look what happened when we let the Irish in with their papist religion.
                        That would be great.

                        Except....

                        Democrats, always accomplishing the opposite of what they tell us it is they want to accomplish !!

                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Democrats who claim to be defenders of the weak, the marginal and vulnerable are happy to toss our safe, functioning country aside -- as long as they can wreck America (and get their housework done at the same time!). The left's central political philosophy is based on resentment toward historical America.

                        Primitive people will not stop trying to come here until America is no different from Calcutta. Then, liberals' work will be done. And there will be no charity ward left for anyone to flee to.

                        That's how much liberals care about women and children.

                        It's one thing to use quotas as a response to slavery and Jim Crow in our own country, but why do we have to have an immigration quota for "people who don't live here, have never seen an indoor toilet, and rape little girls for sport"?

                        Liberals act as if they are striking a blow for feminism by importing desperate women from misogynistic cultures to America. But, even to the extent they're telling the truth, the women aren't always victims only. They're often co-conspirators.

                        Remember the Baby Hope case? In 1991, a little girl's unidentified body was found in an Igloo cooler alongside the Henry Hudson Parkway. Twenty-two years later, the New York City police finally solved the case: The perpetrator turned out to be Baby Hope's illegal alien cousin from Mexico, who had raped and killed her when she was 4 years old.

                        And how had he escaped justice for 22 years? The girl's mother and aunt, also illegals, helped orchestrate the cover-up. The aunt helped dispose of the body and the girls mother never said a peep, despite admitting that she suspected all along that the corpse in the cooler was her unreported, missing daughter.

                        Hmong girls in Minnesota are regularly gang raped by Hmong men, but the Hmong community -- even the girls' mothers -- blame the rape victims, and the attacks go unreported. These aren't cultures of strong women and criminal men. It's more like criminal men and complicit women.

                        (One of the major articles reporting on the Hmong rape culture, helping diversify America, was Pam Louwagie and Dan Browning's "Shamed Into Silence," published in the Minneapolis Star Tribune in 2005. It used to be here: startribune.com/local/11594631.html. The detailed story won first place for In Depth Reporting from the Minnesota Society of Professional Journalists, but it seems to have disappeared from the Tribune's website. Welcome to the Soviet Union!)

                        In San Francisco, we had the young Indian sex slaves of pederast Lakireddy Bali Reddy testifying on his behalf. Once he was finally busted -- not by our fantastic "democracy dies in darkness" mainstream media, but by a local high school newspaper -- we found out his child rape victims thought they deserved it. They could not be coaxed to testify against him. Some took the stand on his behalf. They were all given asylum. We didn't change them; they just moved here, without altering their belief in human slavery or the caste system one iota.

                        Americans are told we have to understand that it's part of their native cultures.

                        Exactly!

                        It's their culture.

                        We're not rescuing anybody; we're bringing in diseased cultures.

                        The alleged refugees don't float above and apart from their societies.

                        Feminists may see the world as the Boy team versus the Girl team, but in reality, it's the Civilized team versus the Primitive team. Virtually every woman outside of the First World lives in an abusive society. We can't take them all in.


                        ....


                        http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/20...html#read_more

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                        • Wow... Redrover humiliated by a woman.

                          I get that he already hates Ann Coulter (cant say I waste a lot of love on her myself), but him getting slammed like this by her words wont help heal his misogyny at all, Im guessing.

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