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Why isn't the gorvernment keeping track?

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  • #16
    The numbers are routinely released in the UK and all over Europe I would imagine and we still manage and this knee jerk reaction wouldn't be an issue if the numbers were routinely given out.

    Commodore I don't understand your stance here as you seem to be of the opinion that it's ok for the police to kill people and we shouldn't worry about the police going overboard with violence.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #17
      Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
      Commodore I don't understand your stance here as you seem to be of the opinion that it's ok for the police to kill people and we shouldn't worry about the police going overboard with violence.
      My stance is pretty simple: common sense should tell you that cagey, suspicious, uncooperative, and non-compliant behavior is going to make those responsible for enforcing laws suspect you of criminal activity, and treat you like a threat. Particularly when statistics back up that instinct.

      Have you seen the dash cam video from the SC case, where the suspect darted from his car in the middle of a routine traffic stop? What kind of message do you think that sends? What kind of message does fighting for control of the taser send? It sends the message that I'm guilty of something, and I know it, and I'm going to fight to death to avoid the repercussions of my actions.

      If he stayed in the car, he'd be alive right now. If he didn't try to take the officers weapon, he'd still be alive.
      Last edited by Commodore; 04-09-2015, 03:07 PM.

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      • #18
        Being cagey and uncooperative shouldn't give the police a green flag to assault you or shoot you though. Maybe the reason people are cagey and uncooperative is they know they are likely to get rough justice and sad incidents like this are hardly going to help with that. The police are supposed to be the good guys and not trigger happy or willing to throw you on the floor at the slightest hint of someone being uncooperative.
        Being guilty of something isn't a capital offence worthy of being shot at.
        You also have no idea why he got out the car or why he grabbed for the weapon but shooting someone who's running away should pretty obviously be going over the line. I'm unsure how a police officer with a gun can feel scared enough by a guy running away from him even with a taser to justify shooting him 5 times in the back.

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        • #19
          Watch the dash cam video....



          There is absolutely no ill will displayed by the officer in the discussion.

          The suspect was clearly told to stay in the vehicle, and he darted anyway. From the audio, we know the officer has every reason to suspect grand theft auto, regardless of whether you can verify a verbal agreement with the actual owner. Now normally that would have gotten him tackled and arrested, but he had to try to wrestle the for the officers weapon. If the officer didn't know where the taser ended up, the only safe assumption was to assume that it still resided with the suspect, and he would if sufficiently pressed, like if he was tackled instead of shoot int he second video, and that risks downing the officer and giving the suspect his gun.

          Any capable defense team will get a non guilty verdict off the second video, because if the officer can not verify the suspect was not in possession of the taser, the only safe means of apprehension is his service pistol.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #20
            Dashcam shows victim bolting from car

            Video from the patrol car shows an initial traffic stop

            When asked what might have motivated Scott to run, Justin Bamberg, another attorney for the family, speculated that Scott might have been concerned about child support issues.
            Scott owed back payments on child support totaling $18,104.43, according to Charleston County family court documents obtained by CNN. He had a bench warrant issued against him for failure to pay at the time he was stopped by Slager.

            http://www.krcrtv.com/news/south-car...llout/32273360

            Scott’s own criminal history includes a string of arrests related to contempt of court charges for failing to pay child support and he was wanted on a similar Family Court warrant at the time of Saturday’s traffic stop. A lawyer representing the family suggested on Tuesday that Scott’s fear of possible jail time over child-support debts may have driven his decision to run.
            http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...he-victim.html

            I don't know what happened between the time he fled the car and the video started but if there was some sort of attack on the policeman, the shooting may have been technically justified. It does look bad for the cop from what is seen on tape.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #21
              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
              I don't know what happened between the time he fled the car and the video started but if there was some sort of attack on the policeman, the shooting may have been technically justified. It does look bad for the cop from what is seen on tape.
              Like I said, the officer is done for tampering with evidence. Whether or not the shooting was justified depends on whether the officer knew where the taser was.

              If you want to launch some sort of moral Crusade over this, do something about laws that put people in jail for failure to pay child support. You can't pay child support from jail.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #22
                The dash cam video doesn't show the guy being violent or particularly uncooperative and certainly nothing that warrants the officer shooting him. It shows him running away for some reason but that's not in itself reason to shoot him. If that's what you think is enough for the use of deadly force then no wonder people are on edge around the police. Nothing so far shown has given the impression that the officer needed to shoot him.

                So let me get this right having a breef scuffle with an officer which ends in you having his taser is grounds for the police to shoot them in the back if they run. A taser is hardly a precision weapon and the officer had a gun so would have won any stand off and he could even have waited to see if the guy started to turn around and threaten him but he didn't he just opened fire with multiple rounds in quick succession which he must have known had a good chance of killing the target.
                No warning shot or even a shout that he was about to fire which would more than likely have stopped him.
                Last edited by PeterUK75; 04-09-2015, 05:44 PM.

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                • #23
                  If you want a clear cut example of excessive force, here's Grand Theft Livestock.

                  But since its a white guy and his life doesn't matter, you'll probably only hear about it here. Cause cops are "racists".
                  Last edited by Commodore; 04-09-2015, 06:00 PM. Reason: I clearly didn't put enough sarcasm on the racist, so I put it quotes.

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                  • #24
                    You show that and you wonder why people are suspicious of the police and may run away?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                      You show that and you wonder why people are suspicious of the police and may run away?
                      The police don't make people run. People make people run, and running only makes it worse for everyone. Cops, robbers and innocent bystanders alike get hurt when suspects run, long before the arrest actually takes place. So, while that might have been unprofessional and illegal, and will be taken care of, the message one should be getting from that, if don't commit crimes doesn't sink in, is don't run.

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                      • #26
                        So you have multiple reports of police violence and you have no idea why some people may run from the police?
                        Running away from the police does not give them the right to shoot people I don't know how else to say that.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                          So you have multiple reports of police violence and you have no idea why some people may run from the police?
                          Running away from the police does not give them the right to shoot people I don't know how else to say that.
                          If bad things always happen when people run away from police, you'd think people would stop running from police.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Commodore View Post

                            If bad things always happen when people run away from police, you'd think people would stop running from police.

                            You do realise that interactions with the police are often tense and people often don't make the best judgement calls in those situations and for the last time running from the police doesn't give them the right to shoot you in the back. Do you think the basic police work of just sending someone round to his house later that day to arrest him is too much now?

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                            • #29
                              I'm not going to make excuses for either one of them. Both were wrong and one is dead and the other will spend the rest of his life in jail. What to learn from this is to obey the law and show some respect for police who have a miserably difficult job

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                              • #30
                                Can the police show more respect for the public, the law, and their fellow officers and not make the job worse for everyone else in uniform?

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