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Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

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  • Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

    Mom to teenage son accused of shooting baby: 'I love you' - CNN.com

    This kid decided to mug a mother walking her baby and ended up killing her kid in cold blood. All I keep thinking about today is my own son who is the exact same age as that poor baby. This dude ranks among the most horrific kind of person that walks the Earth. I would put him between Nazi soldiers who committed genocide and Taliban who behead civilians on the scale of evil humans. To think he was just walking the streets freely is crazy (and there are probably many more). Lethal injection is too kind a punishment in my opinion.

  • #2
    Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

    Welcome to the real world Danny.

    I'm proud of you.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

      Since they are both under 18, the death penalty is not available for either one of these pieces of shit.

      Life without parole is probably available. Insufficient, but there it is.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

        I think every parent has this moment, even if they don't change their opinion. I've always been in favor of the death penalty. My moment was when they showed the photo of the fireman bringing out the 18 month old boy from the OKC bombing rubble. The boy died, but what struck me was that that kid looked exactly like my 18 month old and I wanted to see whoever was responsible executed.

        I think the death penalty should be reserved for when there is absolutely no doubt, but I think it should be used much more often. Only then will it be a good deterrant for many others.

        On a funny note, I just googled the picture and found out that that was a girl in the picture. I just saw the blond curls and thought she looked like my son.

        Oklahoma City Bombing.com: Oklahoma City Bombing Pictures, Oklahoma City Bombing.com: Oklahoma City Bombing Pictures, Oklahoma City Bombing.com: Oklahoma City Bombing Pictures
        Last edited by Texan; 03-25-2013, 05:20 PM.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

          Originally posted by Danny View Post
          Mom to teenage son accused of shooting baby: 'I love you' - CNN.com

          This kid decided to mug a mother walking her baby and ended up killing her kid in cold blood. All I keep thinking about today is my own son who is the exact same age as that poor baby. This dude ranks among the most horrific kind of person that walks the Earth. I would put him between Nazi soldiers who committed genocide and Taliban who behead civilians on the scale of evil humans. To think he was just walking the streets freely is crazy (and there are probably many more). Lethal injection is too kind a punishment in my opinion.
          Your emotions are getting the best of you. If it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill, period.

          As I have said before, death is an easy way out. You will die one day as will your kids, but they will hopefully outlive you by many decades. Everyone dies, and some people cannot deal with life as it was dealt them and they kill themselves. Is death really a punishment, when we will all die? Use your logic and reason.

          No sir, the worst punishment that could be given out with this murder is life in prison with no parole. You ever been locked up Danny? With your freedom being taken away, doomed to spend the rest of your life in a prison environment? Now I know some people who have never done hard time think that it's a country club with all of the pleasures of being free, but it isn't.

          Horrible crimes such as these that kill children deserve punishment, but death isn't enough punishment, it's a ticket out of living life behind bars, separated from the world of freedom and normalcy. The worst thing to give any man is life behind bars, and to finally die in prison after such a horrible life of enduring that sort of life.

          What death does do, for these criminals is to remove them from society so they can never do that crime again. But in the grand scheme, it is not the worst punishment. I think men should pay for their crimes, and death just ain't good enough for me. I will die, just like them, but I won't spend my entire life behind bars, like them, before they die.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

            Drawn and quartered sounds appropriate.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

              Death is plenty punishment. One thing is for sure, although it may not prevent others from committing the same horrific crime, one thing you can guarantee is the particular individual being executed will definitely not commit the crime again. At the end of the day, thats good enough for me. As far as trying to create punishment with life in prison, nahh, I'll pass on that. I'd much rather see the end result much quicker. Just eliminate them, and be done with it. I'm not for long drawn out punishment. I am for simple elimination from society.

              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              Your emotions are getting the best of you. If it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill, period.

              As I have said before, death is an easy way out. You will die one day as will your kids, but they will hopefully outlive you by many decades. Everyone dies, and some people cannot deal with life as it was dealt them and they kill themselves. Is death really a punishment, when we will all die? Use your logic and reason.

              No sir, the worst punishment that could be given out with this murder is life in prison with no parole. You ever been locked up Danny? With your freedom being taken away, doomed to spend the rest of your life in a prison environment? Now I know some people who have never done hard time think that it's a country club with all of the pleasures of being free, but it isn't.

              Horrible crimes such as these that kill children deserve punishment, but death isn't enough punishment, it's a ticket out of living life behind bars, separated from the world of freedom and normalcy. The worst thing to give any man is life behind bars, and to finally die in prison after such a horrible life of enduring that sort of life.

              What death does do, for these criminals is to remove them from society so they can never do that crime again. But in the grand scheme, it is not the worst punishment. I think men should pay for their crimes, and death just ain't good enough for me. I will die, just like them, but I won't spend my entire life behind bars, like them, before they die.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                I appear to be contradicting myself. As was pointed out, death is almost too kind so maybe the death penalty isn't what is needed.

                Maybe the mother is at fault? Though one of my best friends brother is in trouble with the law big time and the parents are great people, as is my friend so its tough to blame parents. Perhaps some serious action is needed to stem poverty and combat gangs? Someone commented and suggested this could have been a gang initiation. I think having a loving family goes a long way for a child's development. Drugs also need to be addressed in a big way which would also combat gang financing.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                  Drawn and quartered sounds appropriate.
                  Ahhh... the good old days!

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                    Your emotions are getting the best of you. If it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill, period.
                    Good thing it is not wrong to kill then.

                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                    death isn't enough punishment, it's a ticket out of living life behind bars, separated from the world of freedom and normalcy. ... I will die, just like them, but I won't spend my entire life behind bars, like them, before they die.
                    There is some merit to your logic, but unfortunately somebody has to Pay for them to be held behind bars, which means indirectly *I* am being punished for his crimes. While there is no making right in this situation, *2* wrongs do not make us closer to it.

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    Drawn and quartered sounds appropriate.
                    Publicly, and available on YouTube etc.

                    Originally posted by Danny View Post
                    Maybe the mother is at fault?
                    Quite possibly, but that doesn't change the fact that the end result of her 'parenting' is not fit for inclusion in society. If anything, it means perhaps she should be punished if not outright eliminated as well.

                    Originally posted by Danny View Post
                    Perhaps some serious action is needed to stem poverty and combat gangs?
                    - You mean like subsidies that encourage the least capable parents (the young and the poor) to have the most children (per-child welfare payments) under the least favorable conditions (single-parent households, often in gang-ruled housing projects and/or in areas with pitiful education systems)? That's the Democrat plan to stem poverty.
                    - Or perhaps to make sure there's good profit to be made pushing illicit drugs and killing to maintain and expand a territory or client base? That's got support from both big parties!
                    - Or to scream racism whenever anyone notices that gangs are often organized on racial or ethnic lines and try to use that information to help combat them? Good plan, Lefties!
                    - Or to make sure that the gangs' victims are unarmed and defenseless whenever possible? Another nugget of Dem logic...

                    Time to grow up Danny, and admit your blind partisanship played a part in this baby's death, however infinitesimally small.

                    Originally posted by Danny View Post
                    I think having a loving family goes a long way for a child's development. Drugs also need to be addressed in a big way which would also combat gang financing.
                    Exactly. Encourage children among families that can take care of them and discourage it among those who can't, rather than the exact opposite which is the current policy. And stop making recreational drugs a cash cow for the worst elements of society and a font of death and destruction; they need to be a product that is controlled and taxed, providing as much benefit and as little harm to society as possible given their nature.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                      Originally posted by Evil_inKarlate View Post
                      There is some merit to your logic, but unfortunately somebody has to Pay for them to be held behind bars, which means indirectly *I* am being punished for his crimes.
                      What makes you belief, that there are not intelligent ways to manage prisons/camps in a way, that society can even get a profit out of it?

                      I mean, just reduce the "human rights" standards for those imprisoned (e.g.for murderers) down to an more exploitable level and all of a sudden, society has a free work force, available to do high risks jobs, noone else is really willing to do otherwise. (e.g. cleanig up nuclear sites, demining missions, clearing of asbestos blacklogs, critical drug tests etc.)

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                        Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
                        Since they are both under 18, the death penalty is not available for either one of these pieces of shit.
                        So in this thread:

                        http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/popu...u-imagine.html

                        I made the following post:

                        Given his age he cannot be executed, under the Roper VS Simmons decision that came down from the Supreme Court that juvenile and anyone under 18 can no longer be executed:

                        Roper v. Simmons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Given age and multitude of multiple killings life without the possibility of parole was the most stringent sentence available, and given.
                        In regards to the OH murderer who flipped off the court and ended up with a life without possibility of parole conviction.

                        http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/popu...ml#post2160116

                        Now granted a lot of people did say they would rather he hang but even though i am not usually in favor of the death penalty like yourself and Danny, i have to admit i am certainly coming round the idea and i would like to see the bastards fry for what they did to this innocent baby and mother. Neither of them deserve to live. Even if one is only 14. Luther spoke of "accidents" happening to the OH kid ; and given the age of this idiot and his 14 year old accomplice, i am sure trees and rope are on the minds of a lot of people. I don't think anyone would shed a tear if they were lynched to death.

                        Life without parole is probably available. Insufficient, but there it is.
                        Insufficient indeed and one of the few times i have ever broken away from the church but death is what these bastards deserve. What worries me is that even though Life without parole is available, for now, one of the follow ons from the Roper VS Simmons case was the decision that came down from the high court last year, which was Graham VS Florida (i am sure you are aware of it, but the majority of conservatives said nothing at the time as they were busy fighting over SB1070 and the ACA).

                        Even though i did not think the juvenile DP was apt at the time, the way that the Roper case was decided was injudicious and legally flawed, to say the least and i can see the same slippery slope being skid down where the high court makes another basket case decision, setting precedent based on a lack of jurist prudence and stare decisis.

                        Graham reads, in part:

                        The Constitution prohibits the imposition of a life without parole sentence on a juvenile offender who did not commit homicide. A State need not guarantee the offender eventual release, but if it imposes a sentence of life it must provide him or her with some realistic opportunity to obtain release before the end of that term. The judgment of the First District Court of Appeal of Florida is reversed, and the case is remanded for further proceedings not inconsistent with this opinion
                        That just reeks of judicial activism, and again i am hardly a tough on crime conservatism but what Kennedy based his thought and theory on, as far as his legal opinion went is as good a guess as anybody's. He seems to have plucked it out of thin air and just went with it. Where in the constitution it prohibits imprisonment of life without parole sentence on a Juvenile is lost on me. To call that cruel and unusual shows a total misunderstanding of the court from Kennedy and an inability to read the constitution the way it was written. By all means, if you find the punishment to be too severe, strike it down through the legislative means available to you. Going about it like this is a total mockery of the system and totally undermines the meaning of cruelty etc and demeans those who have actually been victims of it.

                        So anyway, most people who are seeing the way Kennedy is going about making these disaster ridden rulings knew it was time to appeal all life without possibility of parole sentences and their mandatory necessitate when it comes to sentencing guidelines, and voila, look ahere:

                        Miller v. Alabama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Now in the miller decision the reasoning from Kagan (the writer of the majority opinion) was far more sound and grounded in legal solidarity with what has been the precedent in weighing the maturity of sentencing when it comes to minors:

                        "that mandatory life without parole for those under age of 18 at the time of their crime violates the 8th Amendment’s prohibition on cruel and unusual punishments."[2] “Mandatory life without parole for a juvenile precludes consideration of his chronological age and its hallmark features — among them, immaturity, impetuosity, and failure to appreciate risks and consequences,”
                        She gets a bit into preaching and less into legalities with some of it:

                        “It prevents taking into account the family and home environment that surrounds him — and from which he cannot usually extricate himself — no matter how brutal or dysfunctional.”
                        Roberts dissent was again also a bit wishy washy so to speak but again he did cite common sense that a majority of states engaging in cruel and unusual punishment for the last 200 years is rather a stretch and somewhat off key:

                        “Determining the appropriate sentence for a teenager convicted of murder presents grave and challenging questions of morality and social policy. Our role, however, is to apply the law, not to answer such questions.”
                        Alito's separate dissent and opinion was also pretty much the same argument Roberts had of calling balls and strikes instead of the sympathy to the defendant ahead of public safety etc:

                        “Even a 17 ½-year-old who sets off a bomb in a crowded mall or guns down a dozen students and teachers is a ‘child’ and must be given a chance to persuade a judge to permit his release into society,” “Nothing in the Constitution supports this arrogation of legislative authority.”
                        But ultimately that was not enough so now the mandatory is no longer present and it is a case of relying on a judge to do the right thing. Unfortunately, the high court in that example, does not set a good standard with some of the atrocious rulings they have and are continuing to come down with.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                          Originally posted by buck84 View Post
                          Death is plenty punishment. One thing is for sure, although it may not prevent others from committing the same horrific crime, one thing you can guarantee is the particular individual being executed will definitely not commit the crime again. At the end of the day, thats good enough for me. As far as trying to create punishment with life in prison, nahh, I'll pass on that. I'd much rather see the end result much quicker. Just eliminate them, and be done with it. I'm not for long drawn out punishment. I am for simple elimination from society.
                          Well you are in good company because many people feel just like you do.

                          The emotions are heavily involved in giving someone death. So much so that we have executed many innocent people over the years. Some say this price, the murder of innocents is perfectly fine just as long as we kill some of the guilty ones in the process. I cannot in good conscience agree with that.

                          I see no difference between an individual murdering someone than a state murdering someone(the innocent man). And so to protect the innocents, life in prison seems a small price to pay for that protection.

                          I am just not willing to kill innocent people so that the guilty may also be killed for his crime. It is a tragedy that others don't feel the same moral responsibility.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                            Well we're talking apples and oranges on that one. I would never advocate for death penalty on innocent people or people that are accused of murder but guilt cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no reasonable doubt to consider with people llke the kid who shot up the movie theater in Aurora, CO, or the kid who was in the news the other day that flipped off the family members of the people he killed in court while wearing a t-shirt that he inscribed "killer" on. Sorry, but I feel no compassion for these people. Sick? Deranged? Bad childhood? Bad parents? No parents? Whatever the excuse is, I don't care. These individuals need to be done away with in my opinion. These nuts aren't remorseful and they don't care about what they did, so what's the point of keeping them around. I don't see it.

                            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                            Well you are in good company because many people feel just like you do.

                            The emotions are heavily involved in giving someone death. So much so that we have executed many innocent people over the years. Some say this price, the murder of innocents is perfectly fine just as long as we kill some of the guilty ones in the process. I cannot in good conscience agree with that.

                            I see no difference between an individual murdering someone than a state murdering someone(the innocent man). And so to protect the innocents, life in prison seems a small price to pay for that protection.

                            I am just not willing to kill innocent people so that the guilty may also be killed for his crime. It is a tragedy that others don't feel the same moral responsibility.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Changed my mind about the death penalty...baby killed in stroller

                              Both of the suspects in this case have been charged as adults. And to make the story even better, several members of the older suspect's family have been charged with tampering with evidence and making false statements. Apparently, the older suspect's felon mother took the gun and threw it in a pond.

                              How charming.

                              In an ironic turn, the older suspect's Facebook page contains a post from him where he proclaims that he's not about the ho's, he about the money. The irony being that once he hits prison, he is going to be currency....

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