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Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

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  • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

    Whose #1 enemy? IMHO the number one enemy of establishing a sane, honorable, and properous America might well be Dick Cheney, and Obama, in his own way, is no friend of American prosperity, either. I may be crazy, but I'm serious. Perhaps seriously crazy.
    Last edited by Tom Palven; 11-13-2011, 06:26 AM.

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    • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

      It really boggles my mind that so many Republicans still see nothing wrong with invading and occupying Iraq on the basis of obvious lies and deceit. They continue to wish to do so with Iran as well. Yet they are so adamantly opposed to US intervention in Libya. This really doesn't make much sense to me, especially given how much they typically complain about the release of al-Megrahi.

      But I actually agree with them on this one. I don't see how we can be supporting a revolution whose military is being led by someone we claimed was an Al-Qaeda leader who was directly responsible for the death of US soldiers. Someone whom we actually turned over to Libya to be tortured.

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      • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

        Originally posted by Formaldehyde View Post
        It really boggles my mind that so many Republicans still see nothing wrong with invading and occupying Iraq on the basis of obvious lies and deceit. They continue to wish to do so with Iran as well. Yet they are so adamantly opposed to US intervention in Libya. This really doesn't make much sense to me, especially given how much they typically complain about the release of al-Megrahi.

        But I actually agree with them on this one. I don't see how we can be supporting a revolution whose military is being led by someone we claimed was an Al-Qaeda leader who was directly responsible for the death of US soldiers. Someone whom we actually turned over to Libya to be tortured.
        First of all, I think a lot of Republicans were in favor of U.S. intervention in Libya. Of course, once Obama actually intervened in Libya, a number of Republicans changed their minds (because they reflexively oppose whatever Obama is doing, even if it's stuff that they were previously in favor of) but the bigger criticism was simply that they didn't like Obama's "lead from behind" approach (as they called it) and when it succeeded without the loss of a single American life and at relatively low financial cost, they really became outraged.

        That all said, I didn't support this intervention in Libya because I didn't like the way Obama circumvented Congress and I really didn't understand how it was supposed to succeed in the long term (the bedeviling "Phase IV" planning that the Bush administration didn't do in Iraq and, as near as I can tell, Obama didn't do in Libya, either). I still have serious doubts, but at least we haven't committed ourselves to a long-term occupation.

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        • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

          I don't think it is a Obama failure or a Bush failure. It is the failure of the continuation of hostile policies toward Iran, instead of actually acknowledging the fact that the US regional leadership in the Middle East is already in decline.

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          • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

            Thoughtful Thug, et al,

            I believe you are probably more right than wrong in this.
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Thug View Post
            I don't think it is a Obama failure or a Bush failure. It is the failure of the continuation of hostile policies toward Iran, instead of actually acknowledging the fact that the US regional leadership in the Middle East is already in decline.

            (COMMENT)

            I'm Vietnam War vintage, upgraded to Iraq, Afghanistan and (my last assignment was in) Yemen. The problems we face in the Middle East and Persian Gulf are not much different than those we face elsewhere in the world.

            The decline of American influence began with the outward - self proclamation that America is the Leader of the Free-World. And even today, many still believe that we are the Leader of the Free-World and maintain this through a military backed hegemony. The problem is, much of the world does not want us to be the Leader and find it somewhat arrogant that we (Americans) see ourselves in this fashion.


            SOURCE:

            The US has a foreign policy that uses this "World Police" concept all to often. It is a post-WWII mentality invoked by 535 Bums in Washington that still think the US is "Persuasive in Peace - n - Invincible in War;" dragged over into the 21st Century. Still today, you either do it the American Way or we will punish you with sanctions or war. It is rare that the Congress or the Administration see conflict as a diplomatic failure.

            Both in political and economic endeavors, it is important to constantly working toward improved relations. However, the US is becoming more involved in adversarial situations. This worsens the US position economically in a global economy that is become much more level and having such impact on America that it will no longer be able to support its only remaining influence: military force projection. Once America loses the capacity to project power, even Israel will no longer have need of America and turns its back on the US.

            But the world is seeing the America as less and less the "Benevolent Leader," and more and more the greedy "Prince John" (with the US Military playing the part of the Sheriff of Nottingham) that acts in his own best interest --- and not the fair broker - and arbitrator for peace. Thus, each action we take make us appear more and more intrusive, and stimulates ever increasing anti-Americanism.

            Most Respectfully,
            R

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            • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

              I heard today,that Iran is gearing up to make a a preemptive strike because they feel their national security is threatened. I wonder which nation set the precedence for preemptive war?

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              • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

                Originally posted by redrover View Post
                I heard today,that Iran is gearing up to make a a preemptive strike because they feel their national security is threatened. I wonder which nation set the precedence for preemptive war?
                Where did you hear that? If it's from the Pentagon or State Dept seems it could just as well be disinformation as information. As they say, Don't believe anything you hear or read, and only half of what you see.
                Last edited by Tom Palven; 02-21-2012, 02:50 PM.

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                • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

                  Originally posted by Tom Palven View Post
                  Where did you hear that? If it's from the Pentagon or State Dept seems it could just as well be disinformation as information. As they say, Don't believe anything you hear or read, and only half of what you see.
                  However consider with terror that which might plunge the US into yet another war with more dead soldiers(many of whom may be friends of mine) and bring us closer to nuclear war and the end as we know it. The time when the US could play military might foreign policy is drawing to a close, we'd rather not repeat the british scenario for losing an empire.

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                  • Re: Another obama failure, Iran building a Nuke weapon

                    Originally posted by RoccoR View Post
                    Thoughtful Thug, et al,

                    I believe you are probably more right than wrong in this.

                    (COMMENT)

                    I'm Vietnam War vintage, upgraded to Iraq, Afghanistan and (my last assignment was in) Yemen. The problems we face in the Middle East and Persian Gulf are not much different than those we face elsewhere in the world.

                    The decline of American influence began with the outward - self proclamation that America is the Leader of the Free-World. And even today, many still believe that we are the Leader of the Free-World and maintain this through a military backed hegemony. The problem is, much of the world does not want us to be the Leader and find it somewhat arrogant that we (Americans) see ourselves in this fashion.


                    SOURCE:

                    The US has a foreign policy that uses this "World Police" concept all to often. It is a post-WWII mentality invoked by 535 Bums in Washington that still think the US is "Persuasive in Peace - n - Invincible in War;" dragged over into the 21st Century. Still today, you either do it the American Way or we will punish you with sanctions or war. It is rare that the Congress or the Administration see conflict as a diplomatic failure.

                    Both in political and economic endeavors, it is important to constantly working toward improved relations. However, the US is becoming more involved in adversarial situations. This worsens the US position economically in a global economy that is become much more level and having such impact on America that it will no longer be able to support its only remaining influence: military force projection. Once America loses the capacity to project power, even Israel will no longer have need of America and turns its back on the US.

                    But the world is seeing the America as less and less the "Benevolent Leader," and more and more the greedy "Prince John" (with the US Military playing the part of the Sheriff of Nottingham) that acts in his own best interest --- and not the fair broker - and arbitrator for peace. Thus, each action we take make us appear more and more intrusive, and stimulates ever increasing anti-Americanism.

                    Most Respectfully,
                    R
                    I figured much of the world felt we intervened too much in other folk's business, the dangerous nosey ass neighbor no one wants to live close to.

                    And agree with you on the economic decline of the US, as special interests and a willing republican party unfettered our economic model, to allow the quest for higher profits to be the only goal of business. The destruction of the middle ripples throughout what is called the USA. With its loss bringing the end to the world's police force, as we will no longer be able to afford it.

                    The American Empire's end can be seen from here today. It is inevitable. We have had our asses kicked, and weakened exponentially by the lust for more profits, afforded by cheap communist labor, as american consumers send their bucks to red china. The communists have big plans as a major competitor to the declining US, and these plans include a space program(military driven) and the expansion of their blue water navy amd is being financed by american consumers. As we finance the rise of communists, we simultaneously destroy our middle class, thereby eventually hurting the financing of our miltary, leaving us weaker. This is a monumental history setting downward spiral for the US, and the crazy thing is we are full speed ahead, with no thought of what is being done to this nation, and no thought of reversing what is leading us here.

                    In one sense I am happy about the prospect of us no longer serving as the worlds police force, but what is lost in that exchange is dangerous. China no doubt would be quite happy in superceding us, and they are set to do so economically, in the not too far future. As our leaders sit on their hands, as others whack off to online porn pics. And we expect these self serving traitors to deal with Iran in an intelligent manner? THAT is funny as hell, just the thought of these inept ass sitters doing anything intelligent.

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