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Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a "violent jihad"

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  • #16
    Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;quot;

    Originally posted by soot View Post
    I disagree over the long-run.

    The "enemies of the West" aren't the enemies of the West because we have cheesburgers and they don't. They aren't even the the enemies of the West because greedy Western capitalists are now selling those cheeseburgers in the ME.

    The "enemies of the West" are the enemies of the West because because for the past 70-ish years we've proped up and then supported oppressive dictatorial regimes in their countries who talk to us out of one side of their face and then use our direct foreign aid to build Madrasahs where virulent Imams preach hatred of the West in order to divert anger away from oppressive dictatorial regimes and toward "The great Satan".

    Our fucked up foreign policy in respect to the Arab/Muslim world doesn't help but the people on the street don't really see that, as they're too busy living in squalor, avoiding secret police, and attending Mosques where the students of the aforementioned Madrasahs are preaching hate.

    When the populations of those Arab/Muslim shitholes tear down the oppressive dictatorial regimes that have been oppressing and dictating to them they automatically inherit a new hobby: figuring out how to run their shitty little countries.

    It is my belief that we can currently look at Islamic hatred of the west as being propped atop a three-legged stool. One leg is the oppressive dictatorial regimes, another is Western support for those regimes, the third are the Madrasahs.

    By allowing (and appretnly even facilitating) the populations of these countries as they rebel we're helping them kick two of those three legs out from beneath the stool.

    Essentially, they're becoming unwitting allies in the GWOT. They're fighting for themselves, but they're fighting against the things that gave them (arguably, legitimate) reasons to hate us.

    Kinda hard to convince people that "the West" is the problem when "the West" has nothing to do with you.

    As far as European nations becoming Sharia-States is concerned, it'll only happen if Europe lets it happen.

    I don't see it happening, but if it does Europe has nobody to blame but Europeans.

    Syria, Eqypt, and Tunisia being "ruled" by Syrians, Eqyptians, and Tunisians really doesn't have any bearing on any of that and doesn't present any more of a problem for Europe than the current state of affairs in the Arab/Muslim world.

    As far as Israel is concerned, not my fault, not my problem, don't understand why the United States wastes one red cent supporting that shithole. In my opinion we should have let the Arabs run them into the Med before they got nuclear weapons.

    By the way, thanks Germany for foisting Israel on the world. Your little period of ethnic/religious cleansing is like the shitty gift that keeps on giving.
    Your theory isnt working, because it is not the people, who oppose Assad, but a part of the people at the most. The vast majority of the Syrian people does not oppose Assad. Nobody is oppressed in Syria, nobody was in Libya, Tunesia. Now the people of these countries are oppressed. A minority rules them with a rod of iron. The rebles are always supported by foreign powers, otherwise thy could not fight a regular army.

    ?


    • #17
      Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;quot;

      Originally posted by John Drake View Post
      Depends on what you mean by liberation. If you mean letting the same elites who are presently fucking us over too stay in charge then I guess we should support Assad. If you mean the radical concept of letting the people who live there run the country as they want instead of for the benefits of our upper classes then maybe not. OTOH, you DO have some merit on your side; Assad is not winning any humanitarian awards right now but he hasn't been a Saddam, Qaddafi or even an Ayatollah....maybe it's best we just sit this one out and then give our blessing to whoever wins. It's not like we don't have other things to do with our money or our soldiers don't have other plans for their lives.
      Hussein, Gadaffi, Assad were no problems to anyone, until some enlightened entity decided they are. This fact alone is enough not to believe the shit on TV.
      Brute raids against international law are camouflaged as liberations. Thats the problem.

      ?


      • #18
        Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;quot;

        Originally posted by Bleipriester View Post
        Your theory isnt working, because it is not the people, who oppose Assad, but a part of the people at the most. The vast majority of the Syrian people does not oppose Assad. Nobody is oppressed in Syria, nobody was in Libya, Tunesia. Now the people of these countries are oppressed. A minority rules them with a rod of iron. The rebles are always supported by foreign powers, otherwise thy could not fight a regular army.
        2008 Human Rights Report: Syria

        People are oppressed in Syria.

        ?


        • #19
          Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;amp;quot;

          Originally posted by jviehe View Post
          2008 Human Rights Report: Syria

          People are oppressed in Syria.
          Oh, a government report. Paramountly credible.

          ?


          • #20
            Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;quot;

            Originally posted by Bleipriester View Post
            Your theory isnt working, because it is not the people, who oppose Assad, but a part of the people at the most.
            Can you honestly think of any popular uprising that involved 100% of the people of a country?

            Every revolution in the history of the world included a loyalist element. Sometimes that element was large, sometimes it was small.

            I can think of at least a half dozen reasons that a popular uprising in a country with a long history of oppression, human rights abuses, and secret police excesses would be smaller rather than larger.

            The vast majority of the Syrian people does not oppose Assad.
            You can't possibly know the exact disposition of everyone in Syria's attitude toward the government.

            Nobody is oppressed in Syria, nobody was in Libya, Tunesia. Now the people of these countries are oppressed. A minority rules them with a rod of iron. The rebles are always supported by foreign powers, otherwise thy could not fight a regular army.
            Run a search for Syria, Libya, and Tunesia on the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International websites.

            Human Rights Watch | Defending Human Rights Worldwide

            Amnesty International USA | Protect Human Rights

            A minority rules them with a rod of iron.
            Clearly the only difference between "now" and "then" is that it's a different minority.

            The rebles are always supported by foreign powers, otherwise thy could not fight a regular army.
            That's been true for at least a couple hundred years.

            As the degree of lethality between military grade weapons hand those available to civilian populations have grown the need for external (foreign government) benefactors has become more pronounced, but it certainly isn't anything new.

            ?


            • #21
              Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &quot;violent jihad&quot;

              Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
              Nobody...NOBODY will EVER replace Monty Hall!

              Here here sir, I agree!!!

              ?


              • #22
                Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;quot;

                Originally posted by soot View Post
                Can you honestly think of any popular uprising that involved 100% of the people of a country?

                Every revolution in the history of the world included a loyalist element. Sometimes that element was large, sometimes it was small.

                I can think of at least a half dozen reasons that a popular uprising in a country with a long history of oppression, human rights abuses, and secret police excesses would be smaller rather than larger.



                You can't possibly know the exact disposition of everyone in Syria's attitude toward the government.



                Run a search for Syria, Libya, and Tunesia on the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International websites.

                Human Rights Watch | Defending Human Rights Worldwide

                Amnesty International USA | Protect Human Rights



                Clearly the only difference between "now" and "then" is that it's a different minority.



                That's been true for at least a couple hundred years.

                As the degree of lethality between military grade weapons hand those available to civilian populations have grown the need for external (foreign government) benefactors has become more pronounced, but it certainly isn't anything new.
                No trivializing, please. Like in Libya the Syiran "Uprise" is not made by the Syrian people. The Libyan people had no reason to fight Gadaffi, it was the wealthiest people in Africa and very free for a "dictatorship". I dont know Syria so good, but its the same scenario. Foreign powers abuse people to replace the government.
                About Amnesty: Gadaffi is the Hero of Human Rights 2011:
                http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/inte...ar-2011-a.html

                There are many countries out there, which are really ruled by evil dictators. Where is the interest for them?

                ?


                • #23
                  Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &quot;violent jihad&quot;

                  Here is the reality of these revolutions. In most cases those that replace the regimes are as bad, or many times worse than what they replaced. This may prove to be the fact in the middle east. I would place bets in that direction.

                  I don't see any secularists in these revolutions over there. I see only a change in the groups that will be imposing their own ideas upon everyone else. Since I believe this to be the case, I will have to side with the "meister" here.

                  The only good thing to me about this violence over there is we are thinning down the herd of idiots, on both sides. This obscene religion has no place in the modern world. Wars that involve religion are always the most horrible, because both are killing in the name of GOD. And you have fanatics indulging in war.

                  The only thing positive in the M.E. is Israel, a non theocracy, a shining star in a sea of mud. Surrounded by the cess pool of humanity, with their backs against the sea. Take away the oil revenues from the M.E. and Israel would be the only nation in that area that looked like it belonged to the modern world.

                  This part of the world will continue to be backward, violent, for many years to come. Unlike the Ottoman Empire there isn't much in the way of moderate Islam these days. An Islam that could exist in peace alongside other religions, other people.

                  Personally I tend to believe these people over there actually have to be under the thumb of a king/dictator who rules by killing his adversaries. They are incapable of living any other way. I think the results of the uprising will prove that. These people, these cultures are backward, still living in an 8th century world, mentally, ideologically. I believe Islam, the Islam of the middle east is the world's most dangerous religion, and that is proven each day. Theocracies are anachronisms, and do not belong in the 21st century. And Theocracy is the fundamental problem. When the middle east moves away from that, the people won't have it. That seems obvious in our modern times.

                  ?


                  • #24
                    Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &quot;violent jihad&quot;

                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                    Here is the reality of these revolutions. In most cases those that replace the regimes are as bad, or many times worse than what they replaced. This may prove to be the fact in the middle east. I would place bets in that direction.

                    I don't see any secularists in these revolutions over there. I see only a change in the groups that will be imposing their own ideas upon everyone else. Since I believe this to be the case, I will have to side with the "meister" here.

                    The only good thing to me about this violence over there is we are thinning down the herd of idiots, on both sides. This obscene religion has no place in the modern world. Wars that involve religion are always the most horrible, because both are killing in the name of GOD. And you have fanatics indulging in war.

                    The only thing positive in the M.E. is Israel, a non theocracy, a shining star in a sea of mud. Surrounded by the cess pool of humanity, with their backs against the sea. Take away the oil revenues from the M.E. and Israel would be the only nation in that area that looked like it belonged to the modern world.

                    This part of the world will continue to be backward, violent, for many years to come. Unlike the Ottoman Empire there isn't much in the way of moderate Islam these days. An Islam that could exist in peace alongside other religions, other people.

                    Personally I tend to believe these people over there actually have to be under the thumb of a king/dictator who rules by killing his adversaries. They are incapable of living any other way. I think the results of the uprising will prove that. These people, these cultures are backward, still living in an 8th century world, mentally, ideologically. I believe Islam, the Islam of the middle east is the world's most dangerous religion, and that is proven each day. Theocracies are anachronisms, and do not belong in the 21st century. And Theocracy is the fundamental problem. When the middle east moves away from that, the people won't have it. That seems obvious in our modern times.
                    Indeed. But I think it is not the Islam itself, what makes them how they are. Other Muslim countries are not violent. I mean, if they would not have Islam, they would have something else, what would make them aggressive. Gadaffi was Muslim and Assad just makes sure that Muslims and Christians life in peace. 10 % of the Syrians are Christians, Jews and Christians are not oppressed, the constitution guarantees religous freedom. The government party is the Syrian socialist Baath party (same name like the Iraqi Baath party) has a christian founding member and is very tolerant. Only the president must be Muslim.

                    Israel would also have problems if it would have to be alone in the desert there. But you are right, Israel is a progressive nation.

                    ?


                    • #25
                      Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;amp;quot;

                      Originally posted by Bleipriester View Post
                      Foreign powers abuse people to replace the government.
                      Yeah, sure.

                      Gadaffi was ordering fighter/bombers, attack helicopters, and main battle tanks to kill his own peope.

                      The West stepped in and attacked that military hardware.

                      But the foreign powers were the ones abusing the Lybian people.

                      Have you been smoking dust or something?

                      About Amnesty: Gadaffi is the Hero of Human Rights 2011:
                      http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/inte...ar-2011-a.html
                      Yeah, he just edged out musician Michael Jackson, cult founder L. Ron Hubbard, and convicted murderer Troy Davis.

                      Distinguished humanitarian company he keeps.

                      Seriously though, you realize that the whole AI "Hero of Human Rights" thing is an online poll that virtually nobody knows about, right? I'd expect the reason that Gadaffi won is that he got five votes whereas Michael Jackson only got three.

                      Your opinions in this thread certainly serve to illustrate the "garbage in - garbage out" principal.

                      When you skip over years and years worth of complaint reports lodged against the Lybian regime by real Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch investigators in favor of a single, anonymous, online opinion poll it's no wonder you take the fucked up position that you do.

                      Yeah, it has to be dust.

                      I've literally had more rational conversations with my four-year-old.

                      ?


                      • #26
                        Re: Al-Quida invokes to assist Syrian rebels in a &amp;amp;quot;violent jihad&amp;amp;quot;

                        Originally posted by soot View Post
                        Yeah, sure.

                        Gadaffi was ordering fighter/bombers, attack helicopters, and main battle tanks to kill his own peope.

                        The West stepped in and attacked that military hardware.

                        But the foreign powers were the ones abusing the Lybian people.

                        Have you been smoking dust or something?
                        And I thought, youve learned something...
                        Your official story is a lie. Lets tell the truth:

                        - The West sold weapons to Gadaffi since 10 years. He was an official ally.
                        - Then the West decided to replace Gadaffi by a CIA-Puppet government, therefore he needed to be deuced suddenly.
                        - Lies over lies are in the medias, a "rebel"-army was built overnight.
                        - While the Nato prepared its attacks, it offered fictitious diplomatic talks to Libya. (See my thread about this: Link)
                        - Big Pro Gadaffi demonstrations took place in Libya. On one day 1,7 million of the 6 million citizens of Libya demonstrated for Gadaffi. This was the worlds bigges demonstration ever, ignored by our lie-medias.
                        - Libya was destroyed by 20.000 Nato attacks with 100.000 victims. Now, a gang of killers rules the country.




                        Originally posted by soot View Post
                        YYeah, he just edged out musician Michael Jackson, cult founder L. Ron Hubbard, and convicted murderer Troy Davis.

                        Distinguished humanitarian company he keeps.

                        Seriously though, you realize that the whole AI "Hero of Human Rights" thing is an online poll that virtually nobody knows about, right? I'd expect the reason that Gadaffi won is that he got five votes whereas Michael Jackson only got three.
                        Sure I do. It is the result of the U.S. poll. Only Americans voted on this poll.



                        Originally posted by soot View Post
                        YI've literally had more rational conversations with my four-year-old.
                        The definition of "rational" may vary...

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