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ISIL flag in Ramadi

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  • ISIL flag in Ramadi

    The ISIL flag was seen flying over the government compound in Ramadi following a ISIL offensive utilizing a variegty of terrorist and insurgent tactics. The Junior Varsity team is still fighting...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...buildings.html
    Last edited by JDJarvis; 05-15-2015, 10:20 AM.

  • #2
    The absurdity here, is that a nation state Iraq will not defeat a group of criminals who have invaded them. If the Iraqis will not defeat them, given the overwhelming numbers of Iraqi citizens, the US is just wasting time and money in doing it for them. You cannot force Iraq to fight for Iraq. And so get out, and let things fall as they will. Perhaps Iraq is just wanting to push the dirty work on the US, for they know how drunk our MNCs get when there is the smell of money in the air.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Seemingly the administration is upset that the media isn't supporting government propaganda as well as they could be: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...ge-117911.html

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        Seemingly the administration is upset that the media isn't supporting government propaganda as well as they could be: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...ge-117911.html
        Well since the huge corporate owned media is dishing out its own propaganda, which is not reflecting the reality of current conditions, one has to think that these corporations wants to give the impression that more is needed, which fills up the coffers of the defense contractors, which of course the corporations who own MSM perhaps has stock in ? LOL

        Afterall, why would the MEDIA not give footage of current conditions instead of relying upon the same conditions that were present before we started bombing and such? Of course no one should accuse the media of actually reporting what is actually going on. But if what Obama wants shown, matches what the corporations want shown, then it gets shown. LOL

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          I'm not prone to believe the government line on it's un-wars.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Iraq is an artificial state, it's ruling class mired in sectarian ignorance. Since they haven't been willing or able to arm their perceived competition (Sunnis in Ramadi), based on the ignorance that they are not capable of taking a moderate position, they must rely on soldiers from the rival sect to offer them support. Shia v. Sunni running Iraq into the hole, once again.

            The US can't let ISIS just walk in and take over without a fight, but we should drop the "world's policeman" schtick. What to do?

            -I'd prefer adapting conventional forces to achieve very creative political ends. The objective should be to cull as much of the leadership (if we can call it that) responsible for the ignorance and violence. ISIS at the top of the list for culling, of course. The US has an interest in sending in our own special forces to do this, but if Iraqi military can trap a few, that provides them a chance to survive. Next on the list are both Shia and Sunni leaders beating the loudest drum of ignorance against their invented enemy. Here, treachery and realpolitik should come in handy. Perhaps a special US military escort for this class of leadership to "protect" them from ISIS attacks. Except things got turned around and they were dropped off, captured and killed by ISIS. Whoops. Something went wrong with our GPS, I suppose. Supposing Iraqi's prez still doesn't get the message, then a political action to dump this mess into the lap of the Arab league. Difficult to maneuver, but if the UN were to green light the partition of Iraq -the state should no longer exist. Sunnis get a piece (Jordan? A piece to Syria after Assad is given an island in the Caymans if he just leaves?) Shias get theirs (Iran) and the Kurds get an independent state.

            One bat-shit crazy plan, I know. But many times better than the one we tried before, and I maintain it is based more closely on reality than what is being tried now.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Can the US/NATO really not blow ISIS out of this world? I hardly can believe that

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                That would require going into Syria. We're a bit gun-shy about going into another ME country.

                Why couldn't the Arab League go in? It would provide them the opportunity to police their own region, while giving practice to the moderates to control the extremists. If they claim to be moderates, that would be demonstrated by Sunnis and Shias actually cooperating in a military cleanup exercise.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  It seems we had a delta force raid on an ISIL location in Syria in the past couple of days.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                    That would require going into Syria. We're a bit gun-shy about going into another ME country.

                    Why couldn't the Arab League go in? It would provide them the opportunity to police their own region, while giving practice to the moderates to control the extremists. If they claim to be moderates, that would be demonstrated by Sunnis and Shias actually cooperating in a military cleanup exercise.
                    Assad is a Shia. If the Arabs, Sunnis, went into Syria en mass, Iran would go nuts, and the whole region would explode. It's not in our interest or theirs to encourage such a bloothbath.

                    A third party neutral in the successor to Muhammad issue and with the power to act and simultaneously deter the Iranians is essential to cleabing up the region. There is no other way around it.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Commodore View Post

                      Assad is a Shia. If the Arabs, Sunnis, went into Syria en mass, Iran would go nuts, and the whole region would explode. It's not in our interest or theirs to encourage such a bloothbath.

                      A third party neutral in the successor to Muhammad issue and with the power to act and simultaneously deter the Iranians is essential to cleabing up the region. There is no other way around it.
                      Your accessment is flawed. For we already went into Iraq, which had the sectarian division, with the sunni being basically in power, although it was via a secular gov't under Saddam. And it was a secular gov't under a blood and guts dictator simply because that was how he kept some semblance of order. Deposing Saddam also destroyed the secular gov't and the Shites were able to come into power, which oppressed the sunni, creating AQ in Iraq, who morphed into isis. So now you want to use some wisdom that our gov't under bush and the neo cons were too stupid, OR, they just didn't care, for the main goal was to destabilize the region, in hopes that we could get a puppet ruler, which would favor American interests, which just happens to be western corporate and banking interests. That is the reality of what happened.

                      Do you actually believe that the Shiites in the middle east will now become our friends because we are throwing in with not only them, but the sunni isis, all at the same time? Is that how you would solve a problem, that we in part threw gasoline on? It's absurd to think in that manner. For it is the same kind of thinking that made the problem worse to begin with, and now you want more of the same thinking, in order to solve the problems in the middle east? It's incoherent this failed thinking, yet some of us will keep doing the same things, expecting different results this time.

                      Number one, America needs to get out of it, period, for we will only make things worse. Second, let the Saudis take out Assad, if they can, which chances are, they cannot do it, even if they have the largest military force in that region, going by what is spent on their own war mongering.

                      And then the American people need to find out exactly why our gov't and the Saudis want to remove Assad. For the reasons, the real reasons would stop this dead in its tracks. This is not in the interest of the American people, to take out Assad, in is in the interest of the Saudis, who practice the most extreme form of islam, right up there with isis, but which we accept and ignore, due to ties with particular elites in this nation, like the bush family. Release those 28 pages and americans would find out the dirty truth about our collusion with the Saudis.

                      Some of the sunnis in the middle east, the rich ones, want to build a natural gas pipeline across Syria, and Assad will not allow it. And this is why we want to take out Assad. Here, educate yourself.

                      As we asked (rhetorically, of course) and answered over 3 months ago, why has the little nation of Qatar spent 3 billion dollars to support the rebels in Syria? The answer revolves, as usually is the case in the Middle East, around a pipeline.
                      Here are some additional perspectives.
                      Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,
                      Could it be because Qatar is the largest exporter of liquid natural gas in the world and Assad won't let them build a natural gas pipeline through Syria? Of course. Qatar wants to install a puppet regime in Syria that will allow them to build a pipeline which will enable them to sell lots and lots of natural gas to Europe.
                      [ZH: And as we asked last week, why is Saudi Arabia spending huge amounts of money to help the rebels and why has Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan been "jetting from covert command centers near the Syrian front lines to the ֹlysיe Palace in Paris and the Kremlin in Moscow, seeking to undermine the Assad regime"?] Well, it turns out that Saudi Arabia intends to install their own puppet government in Syria which will allow the Saudis to control the flow of energy through the region.
                      On the other side, Russia very much prefers the Assad regime for a whole bunch of reasons. One of those reasons is that Assad is helping to block the flow of natural gas out of the Persian Gulf into Europe, thus ensuring higher profits for Gazprom.
                      Now the United States is getting directly involved in the conflict. If the U.S. is successful in getting rid of the Assad regime, it will be good for either the Saudis or Qatar (and possibly for both), and it will be really bad for Russia. This is a strategic geopolitical conflict about natural resources, religion and money, and it really has nothing to do with chemical weapons at all.
                      It has been common knowledge that Qatar has desperately wanted to construct a natural gas pipeline that will enable it to get natural gas to Europe for a very long time. The following is an excerpt from an article from 2009...
                      So there you go. The reason that this crap is going on. And how can you support it? Now that you know the truth. But who on your side know the truth? FOX will not tell you, which is why their viewers are the most uniformed on facts. So they live in this delusion. Not that other MSM will tell us the facts either, for they are owned by a handful of big corporations that control information. So they will not tell us the truth of this matter.

                      So now you know the facts, and this means America needs to keep its nose out of this. A single American life nor a red cent should be spent on helping out these business interests. But you would probably agree to spending a few hundred billion and lose more lives to fight for these guys pocket books, which makes you a conservative.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                        Your accessment is flawed. For we already went into Iraq, which had the sectarian division, with the sunni being basically in power, although it was via a secular gov't under Saddam. And it was a secular gov't under a blood and guts dictator simply because that was how he kept some semblance of order. Deposing Saddam also destroyed the secular gov't and the Shites were able to come into power, which oppressed the sunni, creating AQ in Iraq, who morphed into isis. So now you want to use some wisdom that our gov't under bush and the neo cons were too stupid, OR, they just didn't care, for the main goal was to destabilize the region, in hopes that we could get a puppet ruler, which would favor American interests, which just happens to be western corporate and banking interests. That is the reality of what happened.


                        If your regime can only exist by
                        persecuting a rival religious group, your regime is not secular. Saddam's regime was not secular, and Assad's regime is not secular. And no matter what designs the Ayatollahs in Tehran might have for the newly freed Shia population and lands of what was formally recognized as Iraq, or what the Qatari's might want to build in a Syria liberated of Assad, those respective groups do not deserve sectarian violence dished out upon them by their government.

                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                        Do you actually believe that the Shiites in the middle east will now become our friends because we are throwing in with not only them, but the sunni isis, all at the same time? Is that how you would solve a problem, that we in part threw gasoline on? It's absurd to think in that manner. For it is the same kind of thinking that made the problem worse to begin with, and now you want more of the same thinking, in order to solve the problems in the middle east? It's incoherent this failed thinking, yet some of us will keep doing the same things, expecting different results this time.


                        It's not about currying favor with one or the other, it's about creating an environment that allows everyone to worship according to their conscience, because anything less results in bloodshed. Bloodshed that slips over the border and outside the region.

                        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                        And then the American people need to find out exactly why our gov't and the Saudis want to remove Assad.


                        It's not rocket science. The Assad regime is a liability to peace in the region. His incompetence led to protest during the Arab Spring, and his open war against the people of Syria has led to the power vacuum that has enabled groups that threaten the region to take root. In addition, his ties with Iran has allowed Iranian backed terror groups to take hold on the Mediterranean. The Saudi's of course want to peel back any Iranian and Shia influence. Any other considerations by any others in the region are only considered on the basis that Assad is compromised beyond repair.

                        And frankly, anything that sticks it to the Russian at this point is icing on the cake.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                          ....It's not rocket science. The Assad regime is a liability to peace in the region. His incompetence led to protest during the Arab Spring, and his open war against the people of Syria has led to the power vacuum that has enabled groups that threaten the region to take root. In addition, his ties with Iran has allowed Iranian backed terror groups to take hold on the Mediterranean. The Saudi's of course want to peel back any Iranian and Shia influence. Any other considerations by any others in the region are only considered on the basis that Assad is compromised beyond repair.
                          Did you get that from The Ministry of Truth?

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                            Did you get that from The Ministry of Truth?
                            I sure as hell didn't get it from Truthers living off the ad revenue on their blog.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                              ...
                              It's not about currying favor with one or the other, it's about creating an environment that allows everyone to worship according to their conscience, because anything less results in bloodshed. Bloodshed that slips over the border and outside the region.
                              ....
                              ..The Saudi's of course want to peel back any Iranian and Shia ... Any other considerations by any others in the region are only considered on the basis that Assad is compromised beyond repair.

                              And frankly, anything that sticks it to the Russian at this point is icing on the cake.
                              Right. Turks and Saudis it is, then. Turks are clearly opposed to both Shia and Sunni extremists. The US can only do special ops at this time; the rest, including peacekeeping forces, is best done by the ME neighbors.

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