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US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

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  • US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

    Why are we not talking about this? Or does the notion that staying in Afghanistan does not mean active combat operations and that gets around yet another Obama promise to be out by 2014?

    Anyone else have an issue with the costs (in so many ways) associated with staying there another decade? We know they will be in harms way.

    (CNN) -- The United States and Afghanistan have reached a deal on the final language of a bilateral security agreement, guiding the role of American troops in that south Asian nation for years to come, America's top diplomat said Wednesday.

    U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the accord was reached during conversations Wednesday between himself and Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

    Afghan leaders will hold a meeting -- known as a loya jirga, or grand assembly -- starting on Thursday to decide whether to accept or reject the deal, which lays out a limited support role for American forces beyond next year.

    "They have to pass it," Kerry said. "... It's up to the people of Afghanistan."

    If approved, the agreement would go into effect January 1, 2015, and last "until the end of 2024 and beyond, unless terminated" by mutual agreement and with two years notice by either party, according to a copy of the deal posted online Wednesday by the Afghan government that a U.S. official confirms is authentic.
    The agreement also includes language on the U.S. government's continued funding for Afghan security forces, funneling such contributions through the Kabul-based government. The U.S. military "shall have the exclusive right" to discipline and prosecute its members for alleged acts committed on Afghan soil, according to the tentative deal, though Afghan authorities can ask that anyone be taken out of the country.
    U.S. troops first deployed to Afghanistan after the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, which were coordinated by al Qaeda leaders then based in the south Asian nation.

    Since taking office, President Barack Obama has promised -- and, in some cases, acted -- to reduce troop levels there, in addition to stating the goal of ending the U.S. combat mission by the end of 2014.
    The approval of a security agreement would pave the way for Americans troops to remain on the ground in Afghanistan beyond that.

    Speaking on Wednesday, White House spokesman Jay Carney stressed that any U.S. forces would have "a very limited mission" and would not be "patrolling cities or mountains."

    "The war in Afghanistan will end next year, as the president has promised," Carney said. "The combat mission will be over."

    Kerry used similar language in calling the U.S. military's role in Afghanistan "very limited," adding "it is entirely (to) train, equip and assist" Afghan forces.

    The language in the proposed security agreement, in fact, speaks to that point: "Unless otherwise mutually agreed, the United States forces shall not conduct combat operations in Afghanistan."
    U.S., Afghanistan reach security agreement -

  • #2
    Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

    I have no doubt that if we leave Afghanistan, the Taliban will return in force.

    But the difference between them operating in Afghanistan or Pakistan is minimal at best. There is unlikely to be further progress until the tribal regions of Pakistan are brought to heel. And that is another war altogether.

    מה מכילות החדשות?

    • #3
      Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

      What would prevent US military "trainers" from being present indefinitely, and why not specify "trainers" rather than the general term, "troops"?

      No hard numbers on how many military personnel would be posted there, no hard numbers on how much funding we provide for Afghan troops. Until we know, the deal stinks badly. It would stink a bit less if we knew the numbers and they were limited.

      The other option would be to tell Afghanistan that we'll withdraw almost all US military personnel, but keep a spy network there. If they screw up and let the Taliban back in, we'll return to take care of it. Elaborate on that for their domestic gov't. and military staff: "We'll take care of it, and some of you will tragically die in the crossfire. We'll train other staff to handle your Taliban infection".

      מה מכילות החדשות?

      • #4
        Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

        Doesn't seem like a done deal yet to me.

        Seems the White House is arm twisting to get this extended before the mid terms.

        Kabul (AFP) - Afghanistan on Friday rebuffed a US demand to sign a highly anticipated security pact as soon as possible, insisting the document must wait until after next year's presidential election.
        Related Stories

        Washington warned Kabul on Thursday to act quickly to sign the Bilateral Security Agreement (BSA), with senior officials hinting that delaying beyond the end of this year could mean no post-2014 US troop presence.

        The latest US run-in with President Hamid Karzai was set off by the Afghan leader saying the painstakingly negotiated deal would not be signed until after the election in April.

        US officials bristled, saying the pact, which governs the conditions of any post-war American counter-terrorism and training mission in Afghanistan, must be signed by the end of 2013.

        Afghanistan rebuffs US demand on signing security deal

        מה מכילות החדשות?

        • #5
          Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

          Huh. And I always thought one could wait until the current contract was nearly up, before signing a new one.

          Could be a reverse-psychology move as well. "We offered to stay, but they wouldn't hear of it and we had to leave, per our understanding of 2014."

          We could always go back in if the Taliban return to power. Lather, rinse, repeat. No need to stay nearly as long if we're playing that game, however.

          מה מכילות החדשות?

          • #6
            Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

            In my youth, I often made drunken promises to young maidens in an effort to seduce them into one carnal pleasure or another.

            Just one of those promises were worth more than all of the promises ever made by Obama. And were far more likely to be upheld at the end of the evening.

            The breaking of this one serves only as a reminder of that fact.

            מה מכילות החדשות?

            • #7
              Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

              Originally posted by tsquare View Post
              In my youth, I often made drunken promises to young maidens in an effort to seduce them into one carnal pleasure or another.

              Just one of those promises were worth more than all of the promises ever made by Obama. And were far more likely to be upheld at the end of the evening.

              The breaking of this one serves only as a reminder of that fact.

              As far as I know there is no broken promise here. As I have understood the US Policy in Afghanistan has always been long term. When the Canadian combat troops were pulled a few years ago, it was stated then there was another ten years of warfare at least.

              So as far as I see it the 2014 date is not a surprise.

              What I want to know, now that it seems this was NOT a front burner deal, is what the hell is in that agreement that Obama wants it signed by next January and Karsai is saying not until after the presidential elections. Obviously both men see something worth campaigning on. Karsai wants a delay, Obama wants it now?

              The answer to what they want tells whats really going on.

              But then that's if you believe the war is political and for domestic consumption, then add that the war on terror is the only file on which Obama gets a winning grade, 51%.

              מה מכילות החדשות?

              • #8
                Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

                Karsai has funneled millions into his own bank accounts and probably doesn't need anymore of our dollars.

                We have made a few afghans extremely rich, using my taxes, and hopefully they won't sign such a deal with the US which will perhaps bring all american troops back home. These so called wars have become big business for the private sector and I am sure those interests want us over there forever as it is job security for the private sector. So much money is made in waging war. If we have to wage perpetual war in order to benefit the economy, we need to change our economic model. To one that doesn't require death and suffering in order to keep the money flowing into the greedy pockets of a few elites.

                There is no reason to keep troops in that cesspool. It will cost money, money we cannot afford in these times of want and woe for the common man. Obama is just like the other men who preceded him in that office for much of my life. These men want war, because if they didn't we would not have gotten ourselves involved in so many of them. And the americans doing the dying these days are expendable because of the social class from which they come. If we were drafting the kids of the elites or upper middle class and letting them die in a cesspool like afganistan, we would have come home after we got OBL. I have always believed the reason for not drafting was because after Viet Nam americans were sick of these senseless wars and in order to keep the public off the street demonstrating, the next war was to use only volunteers. . Then the mothers could only say that this is what their son wanted. That they volunteered. There would then be less opposition from the voters if their own sons were not being killed in some place like iraq or afghanistan.

                If you include the war on drugs, my entire life has been one that took place in war. My nation has been at war with someone or something for my entire life! And that should get our attention, but few even think about it. There is something wrong with america in this area. I say we should simply follow the money to find the cause.

                מה מכילות החדשות?

                • #9
                  Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

                  The Elders have approved it, but Karzai is still dragging his feet.

                  I'm wondering just what his angle is here. The only thing that make sense is that since he leaves office in April, he wants the new guy to be responsible, so that he can use it against him.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?

                  • #10
                    Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

                    Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                    I have no doubt that if we leave Afghanistan, the Taliban will return in force.

                    But the difference between them operating in Afghanistan or Pakistan is minimal at best. There is unlikely to be further progress until the tribal regions of Pakistan are brought to heel. And that is another war altogether.
                    Pakistan is, and always was, the real source of the terrorist threat we are ostensibly at war with.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?

                    • #11
                      Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

                      Originally posted by Pogo View Post
                      Pakistan is, and always was, the real source of the terrorist threat we are ostensibly at war with.
                      Yup. With "friends" like Pakistan, we don't need enemies.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?

                      • #12
                        Re: US to stay in Afghanistan until at least 2024.

                        Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
                        Yup. With "friends" like Pakistan, we don't need enemies.
                        A deeper rabbit hole you are unlikely to find, imo.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?