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Obama negotiates "peace in his time"...

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  • Re: Obama negotiates &amp;quot;peace in his time&amp;quot;...

    Originally posted by Jihad4Beer View Post
    You're actually advocating genocide of an entire nation of people, that we're not even engaged in a war with.

    And all for Israel right....so it never happens to them again.

    Wow......
    You are advocating to let Iran become a nuclear power and be able to commit genocide in the name of fairness.

    If you honestly believe Iran and much of the Muslim world does not want to remove Jews and Israel from the face of the earth you are really too far gone for reasonable discourse.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

      Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
      But it makes the Libs "feel" good. That has to be worth something.
      only if they shut the hell up about everything else and lets up pass a god damned BUDGET

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

        Originally posted by radcentr View Post
        No thanks. I'll go for answer "c", Bob: Use the threat of extinction to keep the enemy in a rational state of mind (more or less). Israel has moles and assassins in Iran already. They can also deliver a nuclear warhead or 4 into some very intimate corners of Iran, within several minutes. Although their Cleric/Dictators claim they are willing martyrs for Islam, they don't want to flush the rest of their evil plot for world domination down the drain. A castrated (nuked) Iran would give the world that "courtesy flush".

        Sounds like a plot involving "Dr. Evil" in one of our more recent parodies of spy movies. And yet, strangely, it works.
        First off, c is not an option when I'm beating you to death. Its either defend yourself, do what I say, or continue to be beaten.

        But if what you mean is MAD, then ok lets examine that. It worked well with the ruskies, but then they weren't governed by ideological fanatics who have claimed they quite literally want israel (their neighbor in the region) WIPED OFF THE MAP. Now you want to give them the tools to DO so. You really think they won't use them?
        Your strategy requires that your enemy act rationally. They have proven they are not rational (they are ruled by a theocracy) over and over again. I'm not willing to gamble. I'll bet, I won't gamble. Betting means the odds are in your favor. Like they are right........ now for instance. Gambling is when the odds are either even or against you. Like 2 seconds after Iran gets a working nuke.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Re: Obama negotiates &amp;quot;peace in his time&amp;quot;...

          Originally posted by jet57 View Post
          Well, it's too bad that buisness wants your parents to hurry up and die.

          We're tanking because contributions to social security and payroll taxes have been eviscerated. Fedneral income has not been able to keep up with demand because the markets have left everyone for dead as in late 2007. If your banka coount charges you a percentage each month and you stop contributing to your balance inorder to avoid the fees, then after while the fees are going to take all the money in your account.

          That's been part of plan: Wall Street wants to privatize every nickle that passes through this country so that they can skim 2 % of it right off the top. If you don't that ponzi scheme commin, then you need glasses.
          Not just my parents. The entire generation, including you and omd, and good 1, bd, mhp, chloe (i think. never polite to ask a lady her age) etc etc etc. Its not personal. ITs more a matter of the fact that the mathematically speaking 1 of me can't support 5 of you with my SS contribution, much less my tax revenue pay for all the damn medicare yall are gonna need soon. It only worked when it was the other way round, 5 of you supporting 1 older person.

          My FICA withholding hasn't changed. Still the same amount.
          The market bubble, created by the govs economic policy, burst. Thats what bubbles do. Thats not malice on the part of the market. Thats intended good will on the part of the GOVERNMENT that FUCKED IT ALL UP. They keep trying to help and they keep making it worse. The market is SLOW to correct but it WILL for the most part. All the gov has to do is prevent monopolies from forming. THATS IT.

          My bank account doesn't charge me a fee or a percentage.. Its called a free checking account and MANY MANY MANY banks have them. I use frost bank myself. I use the same for my savings so it stays the same damn number instead of going down. Learned that lesson the hard way. But then caveat emptor. Its not the banks fault I didn't read the fucking contract I signed because I was 18 and sex nuts and retard strong and too busy staring down the bank reps blouse to put more than 3 words together at a time. That would be MY fault. And I not only paid the price for it, but then CORRECTED MY OWN MISTAKE. No gov involvement necessary. Imagine that.

          You realize the Federal Reserve is a private entity that prints all our money right? Not wall street? You also of course realize that nickels cost 12 cents to produce but only represent 5 cents worth of currency.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

            Originally posted by reality View Post
            First off, c is not an option when I'm beating you to death. Its either defend yourself, do what I say, or continue to be beaten.

            But if what you mean is MAD, then ok lets examine that. It worked well with the ruskies, but then they weren't governed by ideological fanatics who have claimed they quite literally want israel (their neighbor in the region) WIPED OFF THE MAP. Now you want to give them the tools to DO so. You really think they won't use them?
            Your strategy requires that your enemy act rationally. They have proven they are not rational (they are ruled by a theocracy) over and over again. I'm not willing to gamble. I'll bet, I won't gamble. Betting means the odds are in your favor. Like they are right........ now for instance. Gambling is when the odds are either even or against you. Like 2 seconds after Iran gets a working nuke.
            20 seconds after Iran gets a working nuke, Israel knows about it. That's if one of their agents didn't actually arm the nuke, but didn't get it placed on a missile quite yet. -Then, an Israeli missile with a small nuke arrives at the site 20 minutes later. Game over. The Ruskies and Chinese would like to express outrage, but their intel shows Iran was breaking rules which they agreed to. Neighboring Muslim countries do express outrage, but make sure the issue goes away after a few weeks. Secretly, they are delighted someone sent a nuke up the Ayatollah's arse.

            The casino belongs to Israel. They'll let Iran play to show off for that fancy whore (nuclear weapons) in the next seat, but they won't let them win real money.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Re: Obama negotiates &amp;quot;peace in his time&amp;quot;...

              Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
              You are advocating to let Iran become a nuclear power and be able to commit genocide in the name of fairness.

              If you honestly believe Iran and much of the Muslim world does not want to remove Jews and Israel from the face of the earth you are really too far gone for reasonable discourse.
              I know a lot more about the Middle East than you apparently do.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                20 seconds after Iran gets a working nuke, Israel knows about it. That's if one of their agents didn't actually arm the nuke, but didn't get it placed on a missile quite yet. -Then, an Israeli missile with a small nuke arrives at the site 20 minutes later. Game over. The Ruskies and Chinese would like to express outrage, but their intel shows Iran was breaking rules which they agreed to. Neighboring Muslim countries do express outrage, but make sure the issue goes away after a few weeks. Secretly, they are delighted someone sent a nuke up the Ayatollah's arse.

                The casino belongs to Israel. They'll let Iran play to show off for that fancy whore (nuclear weapons) in the next seat, but they won't let them win real money.
                You have entirely too much trust in mossad and you underestimate by far the iranians capabilities. This isn't a game. You don't play. You don't bet.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                  Congressional opposition to the recently announced nuclear accord with Iran reached a critical tipping point this week as lawmakers from both sides of the aisle publicly lambasted the deal while pushing for tighter economic sanctions on Tehran.

                  As the details of an interim nuclear deal reached last month in Geneva become clear, Congressional opposition has grown, leaving the White House to sell a deal that even its allies have dubbed as worrisome.
                  Congress to Obama: Cancel Iran deal | Washington Free Beacon

                  Maybe he needs to do this by Executive Order.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    Congress to Obama: Cancel Iran deal | Washington Free Beacon

                    Maybe he needs to do this by Executive Order.
                    Or maybe he needs to ignore these war makers in congress who's special interests constituents need a steady flow of tax payer dollars so they can maintain their mansions in the Hamptons?

                    It seems that these men who oppose an interim agreement want it either their way or the highway. With men like these in this world, the earth will be insured of what she has endured since before civilization arose. Never ending wars and death. But it IS the only WAY they know, isn't it? Which guarantees we will go on murdering one another until what is left of humanity finally comes to its senses.

                    I just find it disheartening that giving diplomacy and agreements enough time to play out is something too many men simply will not tolerate, as the real enemy of this nation, a communist state is working hard, using judo against America to insure she gets sick and weak enough to be confined to a bed, on IV drips to keep her alive.

                    Blessed are the peacemakers, which of course even the most ardent right wing or hawkish democrat don't want a damn thing to do with. But the American people are fed up and tired of these never ending wars where national defense is extended to cover some muslim farting in the wrong direction.

                    I really believe that for some politicians and their special interest constituents, the only way to go is to gut safety net spending, infrastructure spending and channel all of that money to the military. And even the fiscal responsible cons wouldn't have an objection to having a so called defense budget that includes the spending on other things. Spending on the military and the contractors is money well spent in their opinion. We gotta protect our rich elites, their interests overseas as the real enemy china works out its long term plan of helping America implode.

                    I guess what we need is a military based civilization, and we can do as the Spartans did and start training our kids at an early age to be warriors so they can protect our elites and their interests. Hell, we got em in the right frame of mind with all of these killing and death video games. Just turn loose these little tykes when they get big enough on the world, so they stop killing us.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                      Originally posted by reality View Post
                      You have entirely too much trust in mossad and you underestimate by far the iranians capabilities. This isn't a game. You don't play. You don't bet.
                      Which nation, Iran or N. Korea is the most dangerous to world peace? Do you really believe Iran is a greater threat? I don't. They are a Persian nation surrounded by arabs and then they have Israel who would side with the arabs if push came to shove. Do you think this Persian nation feels safe? Do any nations ever want security, a feeling of safety? Or do we just allow those that we like to be entitled to such things?

                      What you see with Iran today has a cause. And the sooner we get smart enough to understand the nature of a cause effect universe the sooner we will get a bit of real intelligence.

                      If you are my neighbor, and I acted like the US has acted towards a sovereign nation like Iran in the past, that is directly interfering in the running of your family and household, what are you gonna do? Until we learn that nation to nation relationships are little different from person to person relationships we will continue on this course that creates enemies of America.

                      That some of us think we are entitled to do what we have done in the past, to other nations is ludicrously absurd. Yet so many of us don't have the basic intelligence to even see it, or consider it.

                      You want to have a chance of turning this around with Iran? Go to her on bended knees, earnestly apologizing for the wrongs we have done to them in the past which has led up to the relationships we currently have with her. That might not work right away, but if we remained on this course there might be something good to come from it. But nations are like you are, and others are, in that all action comes from the defense of an ego, either individual or collective. It is so clearly obvious to me and I don't understand why others are do blinded as not to see the clear and obvious.

                      But the real truth is, America in fact does not want peace. Oh, they say it, but our entire economy would collapse if suddenly we didn't need to make war goods. But that isn't the reason for the hawkish behavior. The politicians and some of our citizens seem to believe that we are special and not subject to the laws of cause effect. So if I lop you up side the head, you will not respond in kind. We think we are entitled to lop who we want, and they should them excempt themselves from a cause effect universe....because only American is so special and entitled. I am sick of it. And others are too.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                        Congress to Obama: Cancel Iran deal | Washington Free Beacon

                        Maybe he needs to do this by Executive Order.
                        I'll ask again, as I've asked this a dozen times... what is it you guys really want here? Are we shitting all over the deal because it is Iran, or are we just playing partisan politics here with a very dangerous nation.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                          Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                          I'll ask again, as I've asked this a dozen times... what is it you guys really want here? Are we shitting all over the deal because it is Iran, or are we just playing partisan politics here with a very dangerous nation.
                          What I want is for them to stop enriching uranium all together. As long as they can do that, they will remain a very dangerous nation. They are just playing Obama and Jarrett like violins. I'm not saying we should go to war with them right now but removing all economic sanctions in exchange for a promise that they will discuss something is insane.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                            I'm ambivalent about the deal.

                            All I'll say is that it's a lot like the scorpion and the fox, were the fox carries the scorpion across the stream and gets stung anyway. US the fox and Iran the scorpion.

                            On the other hand, in negotiations and diplomacy, you have to give a little to get a little.

                            Regardless, I see the deal as having the potential of going very wrong, and Iran still ending up with nuclear weapons, and that's my overriding concern. Nuclear weapons in the hands of a theocratic state with an already identified hated perceived enemy nation ready to be 'wiped off the face of the earth'. Be it via a missile launched weapon or worse, a weapon provided to Hezbollah and smuggled into Israel and then going off. None of these scenarios is good, and concerns for such are going to make the Middle East anything but more stable and nothing more than escalating tensions.

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                            • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                              What I want is for them to stop enriching uranium all together. As long as they can do that, they will remain a very dangerous nation. They are just playing Obama and Jarrett like violins. I'm not saying we should go to war with them right now but removing all economic sanctions in exchange for a promise that they will discuss something is insane.
                              Still, that is what I am asking.

                              Iran is a sovereign nation. Structure the deal you think they would sign as at some point you have to trust they would follow a deal or risk the consequence with all these nations involved. Else what are we really talking about here to ensure they stop all uranium enrichment without military involvement? It comes down to that, you can't just force Iran to stop doing this with sanctions... they have not worked yet. Tough talk is meaningless here.

                              Tell us what you think would work. That is the question. Without a plausible deal this conversation is over, and Iran still stays a dangerous nation.

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                              • Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                                Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                                I'll ask again, as I've asked this a dozen times... what is it you guys really want here? Are we shitting all over the deal because it is Iran, or are we just playing partisan politics here with a very dangerous nation.
                                I have not one interest in either the Democrats or Republicans.

                                My problem with this deal is a lengthy list. It begins with the fact Israel was not at the table, the "six" that were have no right to dictate to any nation on issues of security, which is what they have done vis-a-vis Israel.

                                Two, the sanctions were universally lifted and the funds held released and restored. Iran has no reason to comply and the history of US dealings with them is more than a suggestion they will ignore Obama stomping his little feet in protest.

                                Three, once again, the Obama administration has outright lied about the content.

                                Four, nations who know Iran much better than the US, such as Canada who is STILL paying dues for hiding American spies during Carter's similar strategy with Iran, are extremely wary of the deal, openly suggesting it is unenforceable.

                                Five, the Obama administration's record on foreign policy is a mutant disaster, its policy on the middle east a trail of debris from Egypt to Syria to Pakistan to Libya to Iraq and Afghanistan. In the wake of Obama's hopelessly stupid plan on Syria, it is inconceivable that anyone in the White House has moe than a two brains cells available for the middle east.

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