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Obama negotiates "peace in his time"...

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  • #76
    Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

    Originally posted by Jihad4Beer View Post
    It was a commentary on conservatives in America.

    It's the same thing you do all the time when you make your comments about liberals.
    You quoted Tsquare and directed your comments at him.

    You're a Republican. Act like one.
    This was simply a personal insult.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #77
      Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

      Originally posted by Danny View Post
      I knew there'd be a thread like this on here without even having to visit the forum.

      As Blue Doggy said, congrats are in order to the Obama admin who's foreign policy successes just keep piling up, to the ire of conservatives who once thought it was their sacred ground. So no, I'm not surprised anyone here is attacking Obama because they attack Obama no matter what, all the time, weather they have an argument or not. Doesn't matter how good or bad the deal is. To think they are even trying to insert Obamacare into this is just...I don't know. There doesn't seem to be an appropriate world to describe the absolute ass-hole-ness of someone who would actually do that. For someone to say a deal that Senator Obama said he'd pursue as a candidate, a deal that is a year in the making, after months of secret negotiations, continued even after an Iranian election, with such geo-political implications is just because Healthcare.gov isn't working properly is so profoundly stupid I can't spend any more time on it. It's self explanatory.

      As for the deal itself, it's exactly what needed to happen. Inspectors are sent in, their programs are frozen and they get 6 months to prove they are serious. There isn't a downside here UNLESS, unless you want to attack Iran and stand to profit from it. That the same people who rushed to war in Iraq are so against giving peace a chance in Iran is a tragedy. How quickly right wingers forget the toll from the ill-advised war of choice: 5000 dead services members and tens of thousands of critically injured. It's simply incredible that a deal that might actually avert a similar war is quickly dismissed. Those people are not to be taken seriously. They had their chance to prove cowboy diplomacy worked and it didn't. History so far judges that war as one of the biggest foreign policy blunders and strategic mistakes of all time.

      Will Iran finally disarm? Who knows. As of now, it's irrelevant. If they don't, you are back in the same position with a stronger hand because peace was given a chance first. And if they do, well you just saved tens or hundreds of thousands of lives by electing Barack Obama who pursued diplomacy instead of the next George Bush who places less importance on diplomacy and soldiers' lives.

      As for Israel..do they have veto power over your foreign policy? Is Bibi your SECSTATE? He can shut the fuck up and worry about his own business. America would never let anyone attack them so this is just fluff.
      <scratching head>

      It is a wonder how you can consider the "deal" your own government will not be a party to ... is nevertheless a "foreign policy success."

      OH WAIT ... you probably don't even know what's in that deal, do you? O.K. .. WHEW ... for a second there I thought you'd taken leave of your senses.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #78
        Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

        Originally posted by Jihad4Beer View Post
        First you hyped the threat of Iran by comparing them to Nazi Germany.
        And now you're downplaying the ability of Nazi Germany.

        You sir are arguing to argue. But that's what most people do on here, so it's ok.
        You made the absurd insinuation that there is a moral difference in aiding Great Britain from her foes and aiding Israel from hers.

        Both are a free people with major geographic shortcomings who have foes hell bent on dominating them, if not outright destroying them.

        Both have foes who represent a major threat to region peace and global stability.

        The tactical capabilities are different, but the strategic implications and moral imperative are the same.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #79
          Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

          Originally posted by Commodore View Post
          You made the absurd insinuation that there is a moral difference in aiding Great Britain from her foes and aiding Israel from hers.

          Both are a free people with major geographic shortcomings who have foes hell bent on dominating them, if not outright destroying them.

          Both have foes who represent a major threat to region peace and global stability.

          The tactical capabilities are different, but the strategic implications and moral imperative are the same.
          There you go, talking about moral imperatives. There is no such thing in the liberal world.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #80
            Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

            This is probably not the optimal solution, but it doesn't seem too bad to me. It's an interim step.

            There were several nations involved, this was not an Obama action. Not that the far ends of the spectrum will acknowledge the involvement of the other nations in the group.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #81
              Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

              Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
              This is probably not the optimal solution, but it doesn't seem too bad to me. It's an interim step.

              There were several nations involved, this was not an Obama action. Not that the far ends of the spectrum will acknowledge the involvement of the other nations in the group.
              Undercutting existing UN approved sanctions not imperialistic of Obama? I hardly think so. Wouldn't it have been wiser to discretely discuss the deal with some UN representatives as well as congress before just pulling the trigger on it? Maybe the administration did, and it hasn't been reported. I'm thinking the administration hasn't.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #82
                Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                "Blessed are the peacemakers"

                I don't expect anyone who leans right to like this. I don't expect the right to like it even if it turns out well for all involved. They will not like anything Obama is involved in. But they will not be the final judge, thank god, history will. And personally I hope history proves them wrong, not because I like Obama but because I am sick and tired of these never ending wars, and the killing of americans who joined the military to defend americans and America. We have not had a war in defense since ww2. We have even told lies to get into some of these non defensive wars.

                And so I applaud these attempts by this administration. If the attempts fail, well at least we tried. Blessed are the peacemakers.

                BTW, it is well known that Iran wanting to remove Israel from the map was a misinterpretation of the language used by Iran. How handy was that? And still you hear this being bantered about, the mis translation of language. Just another lie from the war mongers who make sure their own sons don't serve in these wars and conflicts. We send the lower class folks to die for the upper crust with their bank accounts filled by defense contracts.

                Truth is, there are some people who would rather keep Iran an enemy. But how long did it take america to create the atomic bomb from scratch? If Iran wanted a nuke they would already have it. How long have they supposedly been working on one? LOL. And even if they did have one, so what? Would they destroy their own nation just to shoot one off at Israel? Israel would unleash their arsenal before Iran's missile even left their own air space.

                I have no doubts that in the future the use of nukes won't be much of an issue. We are probably closer than you think at taking out any missile before it could reach its destination. When we have that capability, and others don't, that is a game changer. And we will have that, if we already don't. Since we could not win another war like ww2, due to our deindustrialization with China now having our lost industrial power, being the top dog in nuclear defense is the only ace card we will have.

                The only real threat that faces the US today is communist china. That is where all of our attention should be directed, instead of these backwater nations in the middle east. China is a real and present danger going into the future. And the size of the military they could muster with 1.5 billion people should be our concern, instead of being so distracted by these back water nations in the deserts of the middle east.
                I think it is pretty clear that Iran wants to turn Israel into a missing nation.

                http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/wo...iran.html?_r=0

                Referring to comments by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic revolution, Admadinejad said, "As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, in contrast, proposed a dialogue among civilizations and pursued a policy of dיtente.
                Don't know what version of English you use BD but that sounds like they want to utterly destroy Israel.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #83
                  Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                  Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                  I think it is pretty clear that Iran wants to turn Israel into a missing nation.

                  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/wo...iran.html?_r=0



                  Don't know what version of English you use BD but that sounds like they want to utterly destroy Israel.
                  I wonder who their second target would be?

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #84
                    Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                    Iran launches missile.
                    Firmware detects ideal moment to head towards Tehran.
                    Problem solved.

                    My sympathies lie, as Voland pointed out, with the people of Iran who simply want a normal life.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #85
                      Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                      Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                      Iran launches missile.
                      Firmware detects ideal moment to head towards Tehran.
                      Problem solved.

                      My sympathies lie, as Voland pointed out, with the people of Iran who simply want a normal life.
                      Seriously? I think you are watching too much TV. I don't think reality plays out like that.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #86
                        Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                        Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                        Now someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that John Kerry promised Hassan Rouhani (President of Iran) that if he liked his nuclear program, he could keep his nuclear program and that no one was going to force him to buy a different one.
                        You know I keep hearing that Iran doesn't need nuclear energy as they have oil. Of course they have no refineries, but yeah they have some oil. So why did we have nucler energy producing electricity even when we were an oil exporting nation and gas was 20 cents a gallon? LOL

                        Personally I don't think nuclear produced electricity is safe, especially after what happened in Japan, but Iran has the right to have it as other nations do. So in order to fuel these reactors they need a higher grade material. But we don't want them to produce their own, but instead to buy it from someone else. It is cheaper over the long haul to refine your own to the grade needed, and why should they not be allowed to do that?

                        The relationship with Iran is a relationship created by US interference in their nation. And karma is inevitable in this cause effect universe. And since we have to live in such a universe we should be very thoughtful before we assume superiority and think about interfering in another nation's business. America is much to blame, yet we are not supposed to recognize that? That all of the meddling we have done in other nations across the globe is perfectly fine? It isn't. Because it will only create future problems for the US. And we will have to reap what is sowed. But we don't want to do that! We want to sow and then get upset when we have to reap what we sowed. Because we think we are special and therefore not subject or should not be subject to the law of cause and effect. It's American arrogance, with a great dose of human ignorance to boot.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #87
                          Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                          You know I keep hearing that Iran doesn't need nuclear energy as they have oil. Of course they have no refineries, but yeah they have some oil. So why did we have nucler energy producing electricity even when we were an oil exporting nation and gas was 20 cents a gallon? LOL

                          Personally I don't think nuclear produced electricity is safe, especially after what happened in Japan, but Iran has the right to have it as other nations do. So in order to fuel these reactors they need a higher grade material. But we don't want them to produce their own, but instead to buy it from someone else. It is cheaper over the long haul to refine your own to the grade needed, and why should they not be allowed to do that?

                          The relationship with Iran is a relationship created by US interference in their nation. And karma is inevitable in this cause effect universe. And since we have to live in such a universe we should be very thoughtful before we assume superiority and think about interfering in another nation's business. America is much to blame, yet we are not supposed to recognize that? That all of the meddling we have done in other nations across the globe is perfectly fine? It isn't. Because it will only create future problems for the US. And we will have to reap what is sowed. But we don't want to do that! We want to sow and then get upset when we have to reap what we sowed. Because we think we are special and therefore not subject or should not be subject to the law of cause and effect. It's American arrogance, with a great dose of human ignorance to boot.
                          I see you are completely ignoring the security issues that are raised when a known terrorist exporting and supporting nation driven and managed by a theocracy has nuclear enrichment, nuclear reactors and radioactive materials. Why is that?

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #88
                            Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                            Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                            I think it is pretty clear that Iran wants to turn Israel into a missing nation.

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/wo...iran.html?_r=0



                            Don't know what version of English you use BD but that sounds like they want to utterly destroy Israel.
                            That has been debunked by several men who didn't mistranslate. Google it if you don't believe me. Like you I believed the wrong translation until I read someone who cleared it up. Now, WHY this has been covered by FOX is understandable, but why the liberal media hasn't made a point of correcting it tells me something too. Someone has control of most of our big media.

                            The same can be said of not a single media covering what free trade has done to the average guy who has to work for a living. How these trade agreements have exploded social safety net spending, yet not a damn word from anyone on this!

                            Truth is the important things don't get coverage, whether it be what was said by Iran or what has devastated america's working people, taking away what made america great in the first place, her innovation and then the manufacturing of that innovation for americans to buy. The reason non of this is covered objectively is because someone or a group of men control information. The control of information is essential for any fascist state. And yeah, I see my country as moving into a form of fascism. A collusion between gov't and the rich elites. Same old story, just a different era.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Obama negotiates &amp;quot;peace in his time&amp;quot;...

                              Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                              I think it is pretty clear that Iran wants to turn Israel into a missing nation.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/wo...iran.html?_r=0



                              Don't know what version of English you use BD but that sounds like they want to utterly destroy Israel.
                              That has been debunked by several men who didn't mistranslate. Google it if you don't believe me. Like you I believed the wrong translation until I read someone who cleared it up. Now, WHY this has been covered by FOX is understandable, but why the liberal media hasn't made a point of correcting it tells me something too. Someone has control of most of our big media.

                              (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

                              Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                              I think it is pretty clear that Iran wants to turn Israel into a missing nation.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/26/wo...iran.html?_r=0



                              Don't know what version of English you use BD but that sounds like they want to utterly destroy Israel.
                              That has been debunked by several men who didn't mistranslate. Google it if you don't believe me. Like you I believed the wrong translation until I read someone who cleared it up. Now, WHY this has been covered by FOX is understandable, but why the liberal media hasn't made a point of correcting it tells me something too. Someone has control of most of our big media.

                              Here I found it for you from the same source you linked to.

                              http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-the-map/?_r=0
                              Last edited by Blue Doggy; 11-26-2013, 07:49 AM.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Obama negotiates &quot;peace in his time&quot;...

                                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                                That has been debunked by several men who didn't mistranslate. Google it if you don't believe me. Like you I believed the wrong translation until I read someone who cleared it up. Now, WHY this has been covered by FOX is understandable, but why the liberal media hasn't made a point of correcting it tells me something too. Someone has control of most of our big media.

                                The same can be said of not a single media covering what free trade has done to the average guy who has to work for a living. How these trade agreements have exploded social safety net spending, yet not a damn word from anyone on this!

                                Truth is the important things don't get coverage, whether it be what was said by Iran or what has devastated america's working people, taking away what made america great in the first place, her innovation and then the manufacturing of that innovation for americans to buy. The reason non of this is covered objectively is because someone or a group of men control information. The control of information is essential for any fascist state. And yeah, I see my country as moving into a form of fascism. A collusion between gov't and the rich elites. Same old story, just a different era.
                                So umm, where is the link that supports your assertion?

                                You are making a claim but not supporting it. Should we take your word as gospel? Why?

                                Since you popped in while I was typing this I am going to use the argument that liberals always use.

                                Thats just a blog not a new article.

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