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Black Sea Crisis

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  • Black Sea Crisis

    This is starting to get ugly.


    U.S. to Russia: Pull out of Ukraine immediately

    ...However, Putin remained defiant, telling Obama that not only can Russia send its troops to Crimea, but to all of predominantly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine due to "the existence of real threats" to Russian citizens in Ukrainian territory, according to a statement on the Kremlin's website...
    Which is of course just an excuse to maintain military control of the warm water port at Sevastopol. Russia doesn't have a great deal of naval presence in the Black Sea, but apparently is willing to go to great lengths to defend its redundant infrastructure on it, which is of course requisite to get to the Mediterranean which is the real goal.

  • #2
    Re: Black Sea Crisis

    Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region


    Armed men patrol as a man holds a Soviet Navy flag in the center of the occupied Crimean city of Simferopol March 1, 2014.


    SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Russian troops took over Crimea as the parliament in Moscow gave President Vladimir Putin a green light Saturday to use the military to protect Russian interests in Ukraine. The newly installed government in Kiev was powerless to react to the action by Russian troops based in the strategic region and more flown in, aided by pro-Russian Ukrainian groups.

    Putin sought and quickly got his parliament's approval to use its military to protect Russia's interests across Ukraine. But while sometimes-violent pro-Russian protests broke out Saturday in a number of Russian-speaking regions of eastern Ukraine, Moscow's immediate focus appeared to be Crimea.
    ...
    The Kremlin website said Putin told Obama that Russian troops may send its troops not only to Crimea but all of predominantly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine due to "the existence of real threats" to Russian citizens in Ukrainian territory.
    "Vladimir Putin emphasized that, in the case of a further spread in violence in eastern regions and Crimea, Russia maintains the right to protect its interests and the Russian-speaking population that lives there," the statement on the website said.
    The U.N. Security Council met in an open, televised session for about a half hour on Saturday afternoon after closed-door consultations, despite initial objections from Russia to an open session. The council heard speeches from a U.N. deputy secretary-general and several ambassadors, but did not take any action.
    Ukraine's Ambassador to the U.N. Yuriy Sergeyev asked the Security Council "to do everything possible now" to stop what he called Russian "aggression." Russia's U.N. ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, said the government in Kiev needs to get away from "radicals" and warned, "such actions they're taking could lead to very difficult developments, which the Russian Federation is trying to avoid." He said Russia was intervening at the request of pro-Russian authorities in the autonomous Crimea region that is part of Ukraine.
    ...
    Calling the situation in Ukraine "as dangerous as it is destabilizing," U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said, "It is time for the Russian military intervention in Ukraine to end." She warned that "Russia's provocative actions could easily push the situation beyond the breaking point." She asked that Russia directly engage the Ukraine government and called for international monitors to be sent to Ukraine to observe the situation.


    Not exactly an Adlai Stevenson, is she. And with Russia on the Security Counsel, that is all a show for the cameras.

    I maintain the only solution is to remove the Russian's strategic interests from Ukraine by claiming the Turkish Straits as a NATO held waterway. Without access to the Mediterranean, the Russians would have no need for the military infrastructure on Ukrainian soil (that they really don't need anyway), and whatever ethnic and political issues remain can be settled by Ukrainians. If the Russians want to challenge such a move they are welcome to let us destroy whatever amount of their navy and air force they would like to offer up. Hopefully they decide to stop and withdraw before either we or the Ukrainians have to force them out of the Crimea.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Black Sea Crisis

      Originally posted by Commodore View Post
      This is starting to get ugly.


      U.S. to Russia: Pull out of Ukraine immediately



      Which is of course just an excuse to maintain military control of the warm water port at Sevastopol. Russia doesn't have a great deal of naval presence in the Black Sea, but apparently is willing to go to great lengths to defend its redundant infrastructure on it, which is of course requisite to get to the Mediterranean which is the real goal.
      I'm telling you that Putin knows exactly what sort of metal Obama is made of, and it is this assessment of his that has lead him to be so bold. He's sitting in his Kremlin office laughing his ass off, because he knows that exactly nothing but words come from Washington DC, i.e. Obama.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Black Sea Crisis

        There is no crisis in The Ukraine... all is going exactly according to plan... Putin's plan.

        He knows that Obama hasn't the stones to do anything... point in fact, Obama has ever political reason not ot do anything. Obama looses his base over shit like that.

        And Europe... they won't do anything. Which is only slightly unfair as they really can't do anything. And that's the way they like it.

        And The Ukraine... just twists in the wind A cold hard east wind...

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Black Sea Crisis

          Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
          I'm telling you that Putin knows exactly what sort of metal Obama is made of, and it is this assessment of his that has lead him to be so bold. He's sitting in his Kremlin office laughing his ass off, because he knows that exactly nothing but words come from Washington DC, i.e. Obama.
          If that is the case, I hope the world pays close attention, and the next time someone is tempted whine about the US being the worlds policemen, they remember that this is what happens when we don't do it.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Black Sea Crisis

            Why would we do anything substantial? Its not like we would keep our mitts off of Canada or Mexico in similar circumstances.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Black Sea Crisis

              Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
              I'm telling you that Putin knows exactly what sort of metal Obama is made of, and it is this assessment of his that has lead him to be so bold. He's sitting in his Kremlin office laughing his ass off, because he knows that exactly nothing but words come from Washington DC, i.e. Obama.
              Apparently Obama couldn't even be bothered to show up at a meeting about the matter.

              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
              Why would we do anything substantial? Its not like we would keep our mitts off of Canada or Mexico in similar circumstances.
              Hey, we where invited into Texas.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Black Sea Crisis

                Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                If that is the case, I hope the world pays close attention, and the next time someone is tempted whine about the US being the worlds policemen, they remember that this is what happens when we don't do it.
                What happens when we don't do it? Russia does the same thing we do? If Russia did do something how would that be any worse than what we've done numerous times? At least in this case it's a country that actually boarders the nation in question, unlike the US who will go to the other side of the world to intervene with our military, so Russia has a much better excuse.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Black Sea Crisis

                  Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                  What happens when we don't do it? Russia does the same thing we do? If Russia did do something how would that be any worse than what we've done numerous times? At least in this case it's a country that actually boarders the nation in question, unlike the US who will go to the other side of the world to intervene with our military, so Russia has a much better excuse.
                  That statement sounds like you are trying to compare previous US military operations to Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Black Sea Crisis

                    Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                    That statement sounds like you are trying to compare previous US military operations to Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
                    I mean it DOES bear some striking resemblance to our early Latin American policies. Cuba specifically.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Black Sea Crisis

                      Gosh, supposing Russia has it's way and takes control of the Black Sea? And they want to send their warships into the Mediterranean. What to do, what to do? (wringing hands like Deputy Fife)

                      Oh wait, I remember now. Obama can go golfing while the two re-built diesel submarines sold at discount auction by the Brits to the Turks, send a few of the leading Russian warships to the bottom in a Mediterranean "crisis" scenario. It might take more than two re-fitted subs, but not much. This is much ado about nothing.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        The new Soviet empire is rising thanks to Obama

                        tapatalk post

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: Black Sea Crisis

                          Originally posted by reality View Post
                          I mean it DOES bear some striking resemblance to our early Latin American policies. Cuba specifically.
                          I would say Texas would be the most direct analog, but as I said, American settlers where initially invited in there. Andrew Jackson's personal crusade in Florida? The various Indian wars perhaps, but there to, the Indians initially welcomed and used European settlers to settle scores with rival tribes. But after that the cultures where fundamentally incompatible, and conflict, dishonorable or otherwise, would have inevitably destroyed one or the other, and I'm not going to apologize for surviving. No war in which we gained territory was launched for the purpose of gaining territory, and even after winning, for some inexplicable reason, we paid cash for it. The Spaniards deserved everything they got for their actions in Cuba, and the Cubans to this day seem unable to govern themselves, with or without our interference.

                          None of that really has anything to do with Putin's actions today, which really serve no purpose but naked aggression to rebuild the Soviet Empire. They don't need Sevastopol, they have ample port facilities in Novorossiysk for the purpose.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: Black Sea Crisis

                            Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
                            I'm telling you that Putin knows exactly what sort of metal Obama is made of, and it is this assessment of his that has lead him to be so bold. He's sitting in his Kremlin office laughing his ass off, because he knows that exactly nothing but words come from Washington DC, i.e. Obama.
                            This has to be a record for the number of time a single post has been quoted by the same poster....

                            While blame for Putin's complete fall to the dark side can not be blamed completely on Obama's utter lack of spine, Putin is ultimately responsible for himself, an utter lack of boundaries, particularly on the Syrian issue clearly played a role, and the broad reaching effects of this conflict will continue to be felt decades to come, no matter whether a shot is ultimately fired in anger or not. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we may one day tell our children and grandchildren that the Second Cold War began on March 1st, 2014, a mere 23 years after the last one ended. And it's completely senseless. Russia, with it's vast natural resources and a little western investment to extract them, could be an economic powerhouse, needing nothing from anyone else, the least of which from Ukraine. Perhaps we can now put the final nail in the coffin of the ridiculous notion of a "Peace Dividend". Every conflict we've fought over the last two decades had been a derivative of Cold War politics.

                            But I am sure there is a wider purpose to all of this. The US itself has floundered without a recognized rival nipping at its heels. One of the first likely casualties of this conflict could be international cooperation in space. I can't see Congress approving $70m a seat to the Kremlin for access to the International Space Station, our $100B welfare program for Russian rocket scientists. Though I loath to cede it to the Russians, short of calling up Elon Musk tomorrow and telling him to bolt some seats into the next Dragon capsule this month (which he could probably do at this point), we will still need a Soyuz capsule to bring our people down, quite possibly as POWs. I can only hope that this inspires Congress to finally get its head out of it's backside and turn to commercial space as the only source that can quickly provide an affordable and inspiring space program we need and deserve.

                            In wider policies, I hope that this experience has shown the American people that we can not endure another two years of this buffoon in the White House, and that specific steps need to taken to bring this regime to an end next year.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: Black Sea Crisis

                              Ukraine declares general mobilization after Russia approves use of military force in Crimea

                              Russia's Federation Council has approved the address from the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin about the deployment of limited military contingent on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea.

                              On Saturday, March 1, the Prime Minister of the autonomous republic, Sergei Aksyonov asked Russia for assistance.


                              Meanwhile, Ukraine has declared general mobilization. Secretary of the National Security and Defense of Ukraine, Andrey Paruby, reported that mobilization would be conducted across the whole country. All people liable for military service will receive draft notices and will have to come to local military committees on March 2.


                              On Saturday, March 1, the National Security Council of Ukraine ordered to bring the troops in full combat readiness. The Ukrainian authorities emphasize that they are against the use of force in resolving the conflict.

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