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Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

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  • #31
    Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

    Originally posted by Good1 View Post
    Which begs the question, "Why, then, are we just sitting on our hands?"

    NOT that I want to rush in, guns a-blazin' ... but we aren't doing NUTTIN' except training ISIS back in the day. Isn't this a mess of our own making?
    Yes, it's a mess we helped make by supporting these doubebags in Syria. Why are we sitting around doing nothing? Because it's not our responsibility to fix other people's problems. On top of that, do you want to occupy an area for multiple lifetimes while also being utterly ruthless? That's what it would take to break the back of the tribal mentality. Saddam was good for Iraq. We should have left him there.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #32
      Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

      Originally posted by reality View Post
      The saudis are in no danger, the world energy supply is fine.
      I think the outcome of a showdown between the Saudi's and their regional allies and Iranians and their regional allies, completely devoid of any extra-regional influence as you suggest, is very much up in the air, with each side having it's own advantages.
      Originally posted by reality View Post
      The middle east is ALREADY a warzone so the economy thing is kinda bunk too.
      It might be a warzone, but at present there is very little threat to trade through the Gulf. A cross-gulf shooting war between Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shia Iran would be very different.
      Originally posted by reality View Post
      The only nuke capable nations involved are israel and iran (they've got them we all know it) iirc. Neither nation would actually NEED nukes to fend off that rabble. Said rabble which will mostly be biting its own neck.

      Besides as to the ash: Not my circus, not my monkies.
      How bout that Strontium-90 in your milk. Is that yours?

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #33
        Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

        Here's the map of the future caliphate that is the goal for The Islamic State according to abc:
        http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=24366850

        It's either propaganda to get us stirred up or evidence ISIL are unrealistic fanatics. It isn't terrifying, they sure must have spines of jello at ABC.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #34
          Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

          Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
          Here's the map of the future caliphate that is the goal for The Islamic State according to abc:
          http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=24366850

          It's either propaganda to get us stirred up or evidence ISIL are unrealistic fanatics. It isn't terrifying, they sure must have spines of jello at ABC.
          I though that was a given.

          But that won't stop them from trying.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #35
            Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

            Originally posted by Commodore View Post
            And what do you think would have happened had Adam and Eve not partaken?
            If they had not partaken, we would have a world now with no greed, no selfishness, no war. For all of these things arise from the existence of the self image, the ego.

            Yet it would be a primitive world, as compared to today, for with that ego came knowledge, as man could mentally separate himself from the rest of creation, and act upon it, change it, manipulate it and so on.

            Which means that the rise of egoism, a sense of being separate from the rest of nature, was a necessity, if man were to develop technologically, develop artistically, and develop scientifically.

            So then the real purpose of religion is to show man WHO and WHAT he really is. And to show man what the ego is, which is a figment of imagination created by the brain. A very powerful figment as it is necessary in order for human knowledge to exist, and for man to see himself as totally separate from everything outside the body. For if we were in the same state as adam and eve prior eating the figurative fruit from the tree of knowledge, we would be hunter gatherers still. Living like the rest of nature.

            The Grand Scheme is for man to finally realize and understand what he is, deeply, and in that understanding, it gets rid of the inward disorder and incoherence which is manifested as society, which is greedy, selfish, brutal, competitive, and so on. Society is rotten for one simple reason. We are all rotten inside our own consciousness, and this is reflected in society itself. In order for society to be healthy, we must, enough of us, must be healthy inwardly, which means no psychological conflict, fears, and all of the rest of it.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #36
              Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

              Originally posted by reality View Post
              The saudis are in no danger, the world energy supply is fine. The middle east is ALREADY a warzone so the economy thing is kinda bunk too.

              The only nuke capable nations involved are israel and iran (they've got them we all know it) iirc. Neither nation would actually NEED nukes to fend off that rabble. Said rabble which will mostly be biting its own neck.

              Besides as to the ash: Not my circus, not my monkies.
              I doubt Iran has the bomb yet. Yet having a few of them would give them much greater security, so it is understandable why they would want it. Who can blame them? Don't they have as much a right to look out for their own nation and people, as we do, as Israel does, as other nations with nukes do? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

              Truth is, I would trust their gov't more than I would trust our own gov't now. We are just as bat shit crazy as they are, perhaps worse.

              We were just positive Saddam was working on one as well. How did that assumption work out?

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #37
                Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                If the collective world energy supply and economic well being where not imperiled by such a conflict, that would be a valid option. But, since we haven't allowed ourselves to use alternative and viable sources of energy, we are stuck there.

                Well, that and cloud of radioactive ash will not respect a neutral nations airspace.
                Well that is the real story with the Middle East is it not?

                When we say we are there to liberate, or spread democracy, or keep a nation from "exporting terror," or find weapons we do not want them to have, or whatever else it is all bullshit.

                What it really boils down to is one or more of three things. Does this effect world oil markets? Does this harm our influences and interests with the Saudis? Lastly, does this put an even bigger target on Israel than was already there the previous day? If the answer is yes to one or more of those questions, respond with a military and/or an intelligence agency solution of some degree. Interfere is the answer else the oil and defense industry would be pissed.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #38
                  Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                  Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                  Well that is the real story with the Middle East is it not?

                  When we say we are there to liberate, or spread democracy, or keep a nation from "exporting terror," or find weapons we do not want them to have, or whatever else it is all bullshit.

                  What it really boils down to is one or more of three things. Does this effect world oil markets? Does this harm our influences and interests with the Saudis? Lastly, does this put an even bigger target on Israel than was already there the previous day? If the answer is yes to one or more of those questions, respond with a military and/or an intelligence agency solution of some degree. Interfere is the answer else the oil and defense industry would be pissed.
                  It is the realpolitik story perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that those other issues are not real and not important.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #39
                    Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                    If they had not partaken, we would have a world now with no greed, no selfishness, no war. For all of these things arise from the existence of the self image, the ego.
                    So why did God put them there to begin with? Why create the world and everything on it only to commune with them in a tiny patch of it, when an all powerful God could surely just beam it all into their heads?

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #40
                      Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                      Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                      Here's the map of the future caliphate that is the goal for The Islamic State according to abc:
                      http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=24366850

                      It's either propaganda to get us stirred up or evidence ISIL are unrealistic fanatics. It isn't terrifying, they sure must have spines of jello at ABC.

                      To declare a caliphate is a quite bombastic claim for a bunch of ultra-radical militia-fighters who have just crawled out of the desert, even if they may have dispersed the disorganized, corrupt and ineffective iraqi army. For the sake of perspective : The last islamic leader to call himself caliph was the ottoman sultan until 1923. The title also implies leadership of the entire islamic world and around 1,5 billion Muslims, and this is where this claim will inevitably bump into reality. Saudi-Arabia has so far been among ISIS backers, yet it is precisely the king of Saudi-Arabia who usually claims to be the rightful successor of the caliphs ( for ruling over the holy sites at Mecca and Medina). The Saudis have every reason to view this as an assault on their own claim to lead the islamic world and are more likely than not to rethink their support now. The reason why some iraqi sunni tribes have either supported or at least not tried to stop the advance of ISIS fighters is hatred for Maliki, not the wish to be included in a self-proclaimed "caliphate", that has nothing to do with any historical predecessors. And the non-Arabs, the Curds, the Turks, the Iranians as well as the iraqi Shiites ? Their response is predictable. Not to mention even al-Quaida, that has distanced themselves from ISIS. These guys have almost certainly pokered too high.
                      Only few medieval caliphs have been examples of an "islamic" lifestyle as the modern radicals see it by the way. Try picking up a copy of "1001 nights" once if you don´t believe me. Wine, gambling , opium, sexual promiscuity, its all in there and more
                      Last edited by Voland; 07-01-2014, 12:50 AM.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #41
                        Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                        Here's the map of the future caliphate that is the goal for The Islamic State according to abc:
                        http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=24366850

                        It's either propaganda to get us stirred up or evidence ISIL are unrealistic fanatics. It isn't terrifying, they sure must have spines of jello at ABC.
                        They really have been butthurt ever since they were kicked out of Europe during the 1st Crusade, which they themselves started. This would be a surefire way to get these holy war restarted. And people wonder why I think Christianity, Islam and Jews are the bane of man's existence.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #42
                          Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                          Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                          So why did God put them there to begin with? Why create the world and everything on it only to commune with them in a tiny patch of it, when an all powerful God could surely just beam it all into their heads?
                          Put them where? In the Mythical Eden? Eden is a myth sir, and myths while being fanciful tales, also convey spiritual truths. One has to look beyond the literal myth to find the jewels in the dung. Something happened within the consciousness of man, and that is represented by the myth of eden, the tree of knowledge and so on. If one takes it literally, that leads to incoherence, and from incoherence comes all of the evil perpetrated by religions of the "literal".

                          What the mythical tale does convey is that the consciousness of man changed. This change in consciousness, which made the modern world possible, came with a downside. The downside is what happens when one sees himself as separate from creation, which means separate from the Creator. This mental separation is essential for the field of knowledge to arise, but the separation is what creates all of the evil in the world. Man lost a connection in consciousness to the Sacred, and in that loss, inwardly he became fragmented, chaotic, disorderly, filled with psychological fears, with hate, with greed, and this is then reflected outward into society. What man is inwardly, creates the society outwardly, with its greed, its brutality, its hate, its fears.

                          Now you ask WHY the Creator did this? Well, that is the great mystery, isn't it? And for thousands of years man has tried, using human knowledge, to answer that great question. I don't think the answer lies in knowledge, for knowledge is always of the past, of memory, and no knowledge that we know of exists outside of memory, human memory, which is always of the past. If an answer is to be found, it will not be found in the dead past, but in the Living Now, outside of the process of thought. A direct perception, as one perceives a tree that one looks at, without an image, without knowledge, without the past interpreting the tree.

                          All images of God, and you have them, or most do, are necessarily false. The image, a mental construction of the brain, is not God, and can never grasp that which is timeless. Yet we try. And from trying we create these evil religions, that for most of our history have converted people at the edge of a sword. One wonders how Christianity, or islam have been so successful in converting humanity? LOL. Believe in my saviors blood, or I shall drown you in your own blood, that's how.

                          I do think Christ existed, as did the Buddha and Lao Tzu, and that these men had it right, for they were able to reconnect with the original consciousness of adam prior to the fall. It is just too bad that the religion of Christ, died with him on the cross, and another religion by the sword arose as a tool of the roman empire.

                          This brings us back to the topic of the radical islamists. What they are doing is what all Abrahamic religions have been guilty of. Conversion to a man made religion, at the edge of the sword.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #43
                            Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                            Originally posted by Commodore View Post
                            I think the outcome of a showdown between the Saudi's and their regional allies and Iranians and their regional allies, completely devoid of any extra-regional influence as you suggest, is very much up in the air, with each side having it's own advantages.

                            It might be a warzone, but at present there is very little threat to trade through the Gulf. A cross-gulf shooting war between Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shia Iran would be very different.

                            How bout that Strontium-90 in your milk. Is that yours?
                            Its nice then that the saudi's and iranians have this buffer state to beat up on then eh? ISIS has pissed off both groups, AND the turks FFS. They'll just be a giant whipping boy for each of those groups to vent their spleen upon. As pointed out: If war in the middle east isn't factored into the pricing structure at this point then someone doesn't have 2 brain cells to rub together.

                            Saudis don't like ISIS. Iranians don't like them either. Why would they be shooting each other with these guys they don't like conveinently in the middle? When they didn't shoot at each other before when there was ANOTHER guy they didn't like in the middle?

                            I was unaware we shared a border with any of the nations in the middle east. Maybe that's why people get so worried about israel and iran eh? Gosh I need a new map too, cause according to mine we're separated by an entire ocean. Odd that.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                              I doubt Iran has the bomb yet. Yet having a few of them would give them much greater security, so it is understandable why they would want it. Who can blame them? Don't they have as much a right to look out for their own nation and people, as we do, as Israel does, as other nations with nukes do? What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

                              Truth is, I would trust their gov't more than I would trust our own gov't now. We are just as bat shit crazy as they are, perhaps worse.

                              We were just positive Saddam was working on one as well. How did that assumption work out?
                              I'm pretty sure they do have at least one, likely up to 5. They've as much right to them yes, but I wouldn't trust them with nukes were it me making the choice. They're run by a theocrat. Those guys are nuts.

                              To be fair saddam had had them before, had all the facilities for making them, had inspectors on a schedule, and we did actually find some left overs which would point to the idea that they were moved/sold or hidden/destroyed before we could dig them up.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Say hello to the new nation in the Middle East

                                Originally posted by reality View Post
                                I'm pretty sure they do have at least one, likely up to 5. They've as much right to them yes, but I wouldn't trust them with nukes were it me making the choice. They're run by a theocrat. Those guys are nuts.

                                To be fair saddam had had them before, had all the facilities for making them, had inspectors on a schedule, and we did actually find some left overs which would point to the idea that they were moved/sold or hidden/destroyed before we could dig them up.
                                Sure, any religious fanatic is a nut. But whether they are nuttier than this Oligarchy of America is surely debatable. For if you look at the state of this nation, there is great evidence of nuttery on every landscape. And it is great nuttery, defying all logic and reason, but heavy on the emotions, and of the influence of the rich upon an entire nation of over 300 million average people.

                                You know when Israel took out Iraqs reactor, it was later discovered this was not a part of the desire to have nukes. It was simply a generating station. But we were told early on, it was far from that, and certain proof Iraq was in the process of obtaining a nuke.

                                And surely it is so easy to understand WHY Iran either wants nukes, or has nukes. It means security to them, and that is very logical and understandable. See, what one has to do, and what we do not do, is to put the shoe on the other foot, and then think within that paradigm. The refusal to do this leads to much blood and death, the extermination of human life, and for what? Ron Paul, had a habit of doing this, and got the perfunctory boos whenever he brought up the logical, the obvious. Now that right there shows the unintelligence of many voters, the outright stupidity. And stupidity on our part creates so much of our problems with the rest of the world. One wonders how this can be? The stupidity coming from men who are of the Ivy League, the best education that America has to offer. It is utterly nonsensical, which points into another direction entirely. Yet who even considers this, among the voting public? I just don't think we are as smart as some would have us believe, our voters. But given we are now a nation based upon propaganda, from MSM, including Fox, this would explain everything.

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