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Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

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  • Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

    I hadn't actually thought about his, but at top pentagon intelligence officer said that this would not solve the problem...

    http://news.msn.com/world/destroy-ha...on-intel-chief

    If Hamas were destroyed and gone, we would probably end up with something much worse. The region would end up with something much worse," Flynn said at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado.

    "A worse threat that would come into the sort of ecosystem there … something like ISIS," he added, referring to the Islamic State, which last month declared an "Islamic caliphate" in territory it controls in Iraq and Syria
    I am afraid if anyone thinks peace in the middle east, peace in Israel is possible, it is perhaps delusional.

    So, what is the solution folks? Put your brain to work and think about it and voice it here. Perhaps someone will listen. For myself, besides wiping out all terrorists, there probably isn't a solution, yet, who would allow that sort of war to be waged? The political/religious divide is just too damn wide. Even worse than repubs and dems trying to get along, far worse, exponentially worse.

  • #2
    Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

    We all know top level pentagon intelligence has never led us astray before...

    Destryoy Hamas they are nt the only political group among the Palestinians, funny how everyone keeps forgeting that even pentagon intelligence.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

      Gaza is a very different situation than ISIS (the place).

      Israel is a very different creature, politically, militarily, and socially, than Syria/Iraq.

      Maybe something like ISIS (the group) would pop up in Gaza if Hamas were eradicated.

      If so, Israel wouldn't be threatened by it the way Syria/Iraq are because Israel isn't a failed state torn, internally, by sectarian infighting and tribal allegiances.

      Israel would simply turn the gun on Palestinian ISIS and eradicate them too.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
        We all know top level pentagon intelligence has never led us astray before...

        Destryoy Hamas they are nt the only political group among the Palestinians, funny how everyone keeps forgeting that even pentagon intelligence.
        So true, but I would think that the lt. general perhaps has a lot of top secret info to peruse and perhaps that is why he said what he said.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

          Originally posted by soot View Post
          Gaza is a very different situation than ISIS (the place).

          Israel is a very different creature, politically, militarily, and socially, than Syria/Iraq.

          Maybe something like ISIS (the group) would pop up in Gaza if Hamas were eradicated.

          If so, Israel wouldn't be threatened by it the way Syria/Iraq are because Israel isn't a failed state torn, internally, by sectarian infighting and tribal allegiances.

          Israel would simply turn the gun on Palestinian ISIS and eradicate them too.
          Yes, but it doesn't seem there is much of a possibility for peace, for there will be another group, radical, that will replace hamas, then isis, and there seems to be no end to it, unless the hatred of the jews suddenly stops, which is impossible.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
            So true, but I would think that the lt. general perhaps has a lot of top secret info to peruse and perhaps that is why he said what he said.
            Germany quickly and successfuly reunited and the Soviet Union blew away in the wind despite eveything we were told by experts with access to top secret info.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              I hadn't actually thought about his, but at top pentagon intelligence officer said that this would not solve the problem...

              Destroy Hamas? Something worse would follow: Pentagon intel chief

              If Hamas were destroyed and gone, we would probably end up with something much worse. The region would end up with something much worse," Flynn said at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado.

              "A worse threat that would come into the sort of ecosystem there … something like ISIS," he added, referring to the Islamic State, which last month declared an "Islamic caliphate" in territory it controls in Iraq and Syria.
              I am afraid if anyone thinks peace in the middle east, peace in Israel is possible, it is perhaps delusional.

              So, what is the solution folks? Put your brain to work and think about it and voice it here. Perhaps someone will listen. For myself, besides wiping out all terrorists, there probably isn't a solution, yet, who would allow that sort of war to be waged? The political/religious divide is just too damn wide. Even worse than repubs and dems trying to get along, far worse, exponentially worse.
              Perhaps the solution is sitting back and letting them fight it out on their own terms and by their own merit until there is a clear winner achieved without outside interference. Then dealing with whoever that winner is. Odds are that will be some group that leans to an Islamic state with those of the Jewish faith having to exist elsewhere, if I had to guess.

              The only alternative is to do as you suggest and engage in a time tried failed solution of the next round of fighting it out based on religious lines where Judaism is allied with Christianity against all those that side Islam. Since that has never really worked out it would take a commitment to kill every last man, woman and child that is in opposition. And that would make us more kin to their intentions anyway than anyone cares to admit.

              I suggest we let them fight it out on their own merit for their own goals, but I am in the minority on that one.

              We know now with plenty of historical support these two groups will never get along, and will never peacefully coexist. Those are the solutions, neither one seems all that humanitarian but then again there is little room for humanity when dealing with competing religious ideologies rooted in ownership of land and societal controls. Been a problem ever since the advent of any belief system in competition with another. Authority hates competition, always has... always will. We have been seeing it for centuries.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                Perhaps the solution is sitting back and letting them fight it out on their own terms and by their own merit until there is a clear winner achieved without outside interference. Then dealing with whoever that winner is. Odds are that will be some group that leans to an Islamic state with those of the Jewish faith having to exist elsewhere, if I had to guess.

                The only alternative is to do as you suggest and engage in a time tried failed solution of the next round of fighting it out based on religious lines where Judaism is allied with Christianity against all those that side Islam. Since that has never really worked out it would take a commitment to kill every last man, woman and child that is in opposition. And that would make us more kin to their intentions anyway than anyone cares to admit.

                I suggest we let them fight it out on their own merit for their own goals, but I am in the minority on that one.

                We know now with plenty of historical support these two groups will never get along, and will never peacefully coexist. Those are the solutions, neither one seems all that humanitarian but then again there is little room for humanity when dealing with competing religious ideologies rooted in ownership of land and societal controls. Been a problem ever since the advent of any belief system in competition with another. Authority hates competition, always has... always will. We have been seeing it for centuries.
                Yeah a couple of us here have voiced that at some point in time. Just let them fight it out without outsiders involving themselves. But that in today's world probably won't ever happen.

                Of course it appears that many outside of the area just don't really want a solution. Oh, they may talk like they do, but by their suggestions in regards to a solution, IMO, they are out of touch with the deeply rooted problem. I don't think they actually understand it.

                If we stayed out of it, and this includes the rest of the world, and let these people murder one another, in an organized manner, perhaps at some point in time the sunnis would have their state, the shites theirs, and the radicals of each flavor of islam theirs. I am sure much of the problem lies in that neck of the woods being divided up in the past by Europeans, that mixed the fighting pit bulls up, when the only way they can achieve some sort of order is by keeping the different sects pure within each state. Since they are not capable of being mixed in, this seems to be the only way there can be some sort of peace over there.

                When you look at Europe, generally speaking you don't have this, and perhaps it has something to do with the cultures? Europe wasn't always as peaceful as today, but since ww2 it has looked more like a modern people should act. It also seems the less religious Europe became, the better they got along. Religion divides a people deeply and the evidence is right there in the middle east. Which is another reason these organized religions have contributed historically to division and war. And the reason I see them as dangerous.

                At one time it was said that Christianity was the world's most dangerous religion, and it was a hard fact. Yet there seems to be little doubt that islam has replaced Christianity as Christianity finally became civilized, cultured. I don't see Judaism in the same light as islam, for religion isn't driving Israel, at least it doesn't appear to be a factor.

                A civilized, cultured Islam is what is gonna have to happen at some point, and it probably will, at some point in the far distant future. Like Christianity it must become in step with the modern world, for if not, it will remain an 8th century behavior in a modern world. And that is oil and water.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                  Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                  Perhaps the solution is sitting back and letting them fight it out on their own terms and by their own merit until there is a clear winner achieved without outside interference. Then dealing with whoever that winner is. Odds are that will be some group that leans to an Islamic state with those of the Jewish faith having to exist elsewhere, if I had to guess.

                  The only alternative is to do as you suggest and engage in a time tried failed solution of the next round of fighting it out based on religious lines where Judaism is allied with Christianity against all those that side Islam. Since that has never really worked out it would take a commitment to kill every last man, woman and child that is in opposition. And that would make us more kin to their intentions anyway than anyone cares to admit.

                  I suggest we let them fight it out on their own merit for their own goals, but I am in the minority on that one.

                  We know now with plenty of historical support these two groups will never get along, and will never peacefully coexist. Those are the solutions, neither one seems all that humanitarian but then again there is little room for humanity when dealing with competing religious ideologies rooted in ownership of land and societal controls. Been a problem ever since the advent of any belief system in competition with another. Authority hates competition, always has... always will. We have been seeing it for centuries.
                  If you mean that Iran doesn't keep supplying Hamas and we don't supply Israel, I believe Israel would wipe out Hamas.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                    Fundamental strategic blunder by Obama and Kerry:
                    The obsession by the Obama-Kerry administration with imposing a cease-fire on the warring parties in the Hamas-Israel war will go down in history as one of the most strategic mistakes in military history.

                    Here is a fact the administration deliberately and maliciously ignored: In the history of modern warfare, no terrorist group has ever honored a cease-fire. Hamas has broken every cease-fire it ever said it would honor. Every single one.


                    Even the Israel-Hamas 2012 cease fire, brokered by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, was simply agreed to by Hamas to give it an opportunity to restock its military arsenal, pressure Israel to lift its restrictions on the import of cement and steel into Gaza – material that Clinton said would be used to build hospitals and schools, but in fact was used to build a network of underground tunnels into Israel and build a subterranean network of underground bunkers, weapons storage facilities and launching pads...
                    and there is a lot more worthwhile reading in the article on Fox News, including

                    On Thursday night, Kerry proudly announced the cease-fire. But read the main sentence of his press conference.


                    “Then, as soon as the cease-fire is underway tomorrow morning – I talked to the Egyptian foreign minister tonight – Egypt will issue invitations to the parties to come to Cairo immediately in order to engage in serious and focused negotiations with Egypt to address the underlying causes of this conflict.”


                    “Underlying causes?” What in God’s name is Kerry talking about? That would be the equivalent of announcing a cease-fire with Al Qaeda after it killed 3000 Americans on 9-11 on the grounds that it needed to “address the underlying causes” of Al Qaeda’s war against the United States and the West.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                      I read this on Drudge earlier today, and it is pertinent to the topic...

                      They are obviously ignorant of the whole story of Israel’s birth, when in 1948 the Jewish people were offered by the UN a portion of the land originally set aside for them in 1921, and the Arab Palestinians were offered the other half. The Arabs rejected the offer, and the Jews accepted, only to be attacked by five surrounding Arab countries committed to driving them into the sea. But the Israelis won. The Arabs tried it again in 1967, and again in 1973, launching a sneak attack on the holiest Jewish holiday. Each time the Jews prevailed but not without great loss of life. And when Israel was not fighting a major war, it was defending itself against terrorist campaigns.

                      And yet Israel has always labored for a peaceful relation with its Arab neighbors. It voluntarily returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt in return for peace, and gave the Palestinians all of Gaza as a peace gesture. What was the response? The Palestinians elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, and they immediately began firing thousands of rockets into Israel
                      This quote came from Jon Voight, the actor, father of Angeline Jolie(a very pretty and "involved" actress) who was addressing those celebs who are helping in the anti Semitism that is growing today over Israel fighting the terrorist group, hamas.

                      Jon Voight Pens Letter to 'Ignorant' Javier Bardem, Penelope Cruz on Israel: 'Hang Your Heads in Shame' (Guest Column)

                      Is there anything inaccurate in Jon's characterization of this? And if so, it is time for the anti Israel people here to speak out and set the record straight.

                      When in god's name have we been more concerned with hamas, a terrorist group as defined by the US and the European Union, than concerned with the only democratic nation in that neck of the woods, that generally is controlled by theocracies?

                      What is so outrageous here, to me, is that most of the people who don't like Israel are modern liberals, who in any other cases would rail and rant against theocracies and the subjugation and repression of their females. How in the world can these people side with Hamas? Given what they are?

                      The percentage of those under 18 in Gaza is around 45 percent, and Hamas has no respect nor love for these kids, as they continue to use them as shields for their rockets. These people are more despicable than Israel has ever been, yet these Hollywood nutjobs side with them? This is so hard to get one's mind around. I just don't think it can be understood, actually. Not logically and with any reason at all.

                      Of course Israel is accused of being too efficient, of killing more Palestinians than jews are killed. What the heck? Is this the manner in which war is supposed to be waged? To make sure you lose as many people as the enemy? Yet none of the objections to Israel are even close to logical.

                      So, a question Did Israel screw up in giving gaza to the Palestinians? For since that happened, it has been used by hamas, who was elected by those Palestinians, to wage war against Israel. This surely shows the character and nature of those particular Palestinians and hamas, who's stated charter is to rid this area of the world from jews. Their very charter should take off the table any deals between the two, for isn't it obvious what the charter limits?

                      I found it telling that Israel's leader told Obama and Kerry to stop second guessing him. I don't think Obama and Kerry actually "get it", and are delusional. It has to be purely on purpose though for no one can ever be that stupid.

                      With all of this said, both the dems and repubs in congress are fully supporting Israel in so far as giving them more money for defense, the iron dome. There were only 8 in the house that voted against it, and I wonder if anyone here knows who those represenatives are? The 8? Surely not republicans. And surely Obama will sign it?

                      I just hope that whoever the next president is, that he or she makes it clear who's side we are on, and to cut off aid to hamas, a terrorist group.
                      Last edited by Blue Doggy; 08-03-2014, 01:07 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                        There is a concern though. Having the opinion to not side with Israel does not always mean siding with their opposition, it could mean (like in my case) just not wanting to be involved given the likely outcome. If you agree that these two groups will never get along, then picking one inherently means the domination or even elimination of the other. There is no such thing as peaceful coexistence between two groups wanting to kill off the other. Well there is one way, and it strikes fear into everyone... achieving the status of mutually assured destruction. I doubt anyone wants that, which may explain some of the urgency for one side to rid itself of the other.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                          Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                          If you mean that Iran doesn't keep supplying Hamas and we don't supply Israel, I believe Israel would wipe out Hamas.
                          I somehow doubt that what Iran supplies the Hamas matches by volume or quality what the US supplies Israel. But even if we ignore that, are you not admitting that it means if Israel wipes out Hamas then someone must wipe out Iran?

                          How many people do we need to kill to make you happy that Israel survives and thrives when considering everyone around them aiming at them?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                            Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                            I somehow doubt that what Iran supplies the Hamas matches by volume or quality what the US supplies Israel. But even if we ignore that, are you not admitting that it means if Israel wipes out Hamas then someone must wipe out Iran?

                            How many people do we need to kill to make you happy that Israel survives and thrives when considering everyone around them aiming at them?
                            Israel should kill all those who seek to kill her.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Eradicating Hamas, no solution to problem...

                              Thought this pretty much told the story in a cartoon...

                              This Land Is Mine on Vimeo

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