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Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

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  • #16
    Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

    Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
    Reading the OP vs. the direction this thread went, I have only one question... what in the hell are you guys talking about?
    Huh? What's confusing? OP poses a question and the people that chimed in initially mostly disagreed with using those tactics.

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    • #17
      Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
      Yet there are quite a few people, both dems and repubs, who think radical islam and its hatred of the west was created in a vacuum, that there was no cause and effect involved whatsoever. That the devil came down and made them do it.
      So long as people have a choice, and they will always have a choice, some will choose poorly, and the rest of us will have to deal with them.

      It more or less boils down to two things, they hate our culture, particularly our media, which they think is crude, vulgar, and a bad influence on their kids. And while they might have a point, we never the less respect the individuals right to pursue happiness, which they do not, and then wonder why there is a bloody civil war every time someone comes up with a slightly different interpretation of Islam. Secondly and consequently, they think their government is run by apostates, and said government is typically backed by the US, mostly for stabilities sake out of economic necessity, but also because anyone willing to resort to terrorism is going to be worse than the standing government in the realm of basic human freedoms.

      And do they dislike it when we destroy regimes, even ones they hate, in favor of those who are a little bit better in terms of basic human freedoms, you betcha. But people that demented, people of the philosophy that man is only saved when they live in a land where they have no choice but to be righteous, are going to react violently whenever they come in contact with a society that respects the natural rights of man to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, because that society will naturally usurp and "corrupt" the opposing philosophy.

      Those two camps have been at war since before the beginning of time, and will be at war until the end of time. There is no negotiating, and there is no "peace". There is only a choice, whose side are you on.
      Last edited by Commodore; 08-27-2014, 09:13 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

        Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
        Cop yourself on...
        Don't know what this means

        The Russians have had bigger problems with terrorists than US... So that puts your 'guess' out the window...
        Show me...

        But the OP is not talking about the "russians problems with terrorists." The OP is talking about how the Russians handled this (one) event. Personally, I think sending the relatives testicles to the Hezbollah leader was over the top ... but I still believe it was successful and the evidence I have for my belief is the sentence from the article:
        Less than four weeks later, the three remaining hostages were freed on foot only 150 yards from the Soviet Embassy.
        The article also pointed out, "...and this is the language the Hezbollah understands."

        By the way the US call everyone who disagrees with them terrorists... At this point ye don't even know what a terrorist is...
        You're just talking through your hat, now. I don't know whether or not you know what a terrorist is ... so you won't catch me making such an indictment of you. But I do know what a terrorist is, whether or not you think I know (which is entirely irrelevant to the posits I made). Quite a poison the well fallacy you tried there.

        As for the '"likes" the west or not. That is what it is all about... For a guy who talks tough about terrorists you show a complete lack of knowledge of how to defeat one...
        I am not tasked with defeating terrorism so what I "know" is what I read. And what I read in that opening article is, standing up to the Hezbollah terrorists worked in that instance... and THAT is what fishjoel asked us to comment on so that is what I commented on. All this extra misdirection and turd-in-the-pool distractions you are floating is irrelevant.
        How is it that invading Iraq create ISIS...
        Are you asking? Seems to me someone as condescending and hate-filled as you chronically are would already know that answer.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #19
          Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

          Originally posted by Good1 View Post
          Don't know what this means

          Show me...

          But the OP is not talking about the "russians problems with terrorists." The OP is talking about how the Russians handled this (one) event. Personally, I think sending the relatives testicles to the Hezbollah leader was over the top ... but I still believe it was successful and the evidence I have for my belief is the sentence from the article:


          The article also pointed out, "...and this is the language the Hezbollah understands."


          You're just talking through your hat, now. I don't know whether or not you know what a terrorist is ... so you won't catch me making such an indictment of you. But I do know what a terrorist is, whether or not you think I know (which is entirely irrelevant to the posits I made). Quite a poison the well fallacy you tried there.


          I am not tasked with defeating terrorism so what I "know" is what I read. And what I read in that opening article is, standing up to the Hezbollah terrorists worked in that instance... and THAT is what fishjoel asked us to comment on so that is what I commented on. All this extra misdirection and turd-in-the-pool distractions you are floating is irrelevant.


          Are you asking? Seems to me someone as condescending and hate-filled as you chronically are would already know that answer.
          This is the guys you say have plan to deal with terrorists...

          I pretty sure by the idiotic comments you have made so far you don't know what a terrorist is..

          You may well be 'not tasked with defeating terrorism' but sure like increasing it... It may well have worked or maybe they were letting them go anyway, maybe he wanted the the relative dead... All we know is that the Russians killed an innocent man and you say 'that works'... Clueless....
          http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terr...rr-russia.html


          9 May 2002 Kaspiysk, Dagestan 43 151 bombing at parade
          7 Jun 2002 Grozny/Alkhan-Yurt, Chechnya 9 6 bombing attack on troop column
          6 Aug 2002 Shatoi, Chechnya 11 7 bombing of truck carrying Russian soldiers
          13 Aug 2002 Grozny, Chechnya 5 13 multiple bombings, including a mine attack on a passenger bus
          19 Aug 2002 Khankala, Chechnya 127 14 Mi-26 helicopter carrying Russian troops shot down by terrorist-fired missile shortly before landing; 115 killed immediately, 12 died of injuries; 21 survivors included 14 injured
          11 Oct 2002 Grozny, Chechnya 24 ? bombing of police station
          23-26 Oct 2002 Moscow 170 656 hostage taking and attempted rescue in theater (includes 41 terrorists killed)
          14 Nov 2002 Malgobek, Ingushetia 4 8 grenade attack on bus
          27 Dec 2002 Grozny, Chechnya 71 640 two car bombings outside government house

          3 Apr 2003 Grozny, Chechnya 8 11 mine attack on passenger bus
          12 May 2003 Znamenskoye, Chechnya 59 200 truck bombing at government complex
          14 May 2003 Iliskhan-Yurt, Chechnya 19 78 suicide bombing at religious festival
          30 May 2003 Grozny, Chechnya 3 8 mine attack on passenger bus
          5 Jun 2003 Mozdok, North Ossetia 17 14 suicide bombing of bus
          20 Jun 2003 Grozny, Chechnya 8 36 truck bombing at government complex
          5 Jul 2003 Tushino, Moscow 16 56 2 suicide bombings at rock festival
          17 Jul 2003 Khasavyurt, Dagestan 3 38 bombing near police station
          1 Aug 2003 Mozdok, North Ossetia 50 82 truck bombing of hospital
          3 Sep 2003 Stavropol, Stavropol 7 90 bombing on train
          15 Sep 2003 Magas, Ingushetia 3 29 truck bombing
          5 Dec 2003 Stavropol, Stavropol 47 186 bombing on train
          10 Dec 2003 Moscow 6 44 suicide bombing at Red Square

          3 Feb 2004 Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia 11 ? car bombing near market
          6 Feb 2004 Moscow 41 134 bombing of subway
          9 May 2004 Grozny, Chechnya 24 46 bombing at stadium
          4 Jun 2004 Itum-Kalinskiy, Chechnya 4 5 attack on defense ministry convoy
          22 Jun 2004 Nazran, Ingushetia 61 ? bandit raid
          21 Aug 2004 Grozny, Chechnya 12 16 armed attacks at multiple locations
          24 Aug 2004 Glubokoye, Rostove 46 0 bombing of airliner
          24 Aug 2004 Buchalki, Tula 43 0 suicide bombing of airliner near Buchalki
          31 Aug 2004 Moscow 10 30 bombing near subway
          1-3 Sep 2004 Beslan, North Ossetia 372 747 hostage taking at school (includes 35 terrorists killed)
          31 Oct 2004 Grozny, Chechnya 1 17 two car bombings, on highway and at a hospital

          1 Mar 2005 Sernovodskaya, Chechnya 6 19 armed attack on police station (includes 5 terrorists killed)
          20 May 2005 Makhachkala, Dagestan 2 10 bombing in apartment building
          1 Jul 2005 Makhachkala, Dagestan 10 14 bombing at bath house
          19 Jul 2005 Znamenskoye, Chechnya 15 24 bombing of police vehicle
          24 Jul 2005 Khasavyurt, Dagestan 1 40 bombing of train
          13 Oct 2005 Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria 85 150 armed attack on town

          17 May 2006 Nazran, Ingushetia 8 ? suicide bomb attack on interior ministry convoy
          7 Jul 2006 Chechnya 4 2 armed attack on fisherman on road
          21 Aug 2006 Moscow 13 47 bombing at market

          23 Feb 2007 Gudermes, Chechnya 5 ? bombing of interior ministry unit
          18 Jul 2007 Kizilyurt, Dagestan 4 3 bombing of police at school playground
          13 Aug 2007 Malaya Vishera, Novogorod 0 60 bombing of railroad and train derailment near Malaya Vishera
          24 Aug 2007 Buynakskiy, Dagestan 2 12 shooting attack on police convoy
          22 Nov 2007 Pyatigorsk, Stavropol 5 13 bombing attack on bus

          19 Mar 2008 Alkhazurovo, Chechnya 6 8 armed attack on administration building
          7 Aug 2008 Sochi, Krasnodar 2 13 bombing on beach
          30 Aug 2008 Vedeno, Chechnya 3 11 car bombing
          4 Sep 2008 Moscow 1 10 bombing in cafe
          21 Oct 2008 Sergokalinskiy, Dagestan 5 9 bombing targeting interior ministry officials
          23 Oct 2008 Saadi-Kotar, Chechnya 4 8 attack on convoy
          6 Nov 2008 Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia 12 41 bombing near market as minibus arrived at bus stop
          25 Dec 2008 Nizhniye Achaluki, Ingushetia 2 11 shooting attack at funeral

          1 Feb 2009 Makhachkala, Dagestan 5 1 shooting attack at cafe
          10 Feb 2009 Magas, Ingushetia 8 24 suicide bombing
          15 May 2009 Grozny, Chechnya 4 5 suicide bombing
          23 Jun 2009 Nazran, Ingushetia 3 5 suicide bombing/assassination attempt
          26 Jul 2009 Grozny, Chechnya 7 10 suicide bombing at theater
          17 Aug 2009 Nazran, Ingushetia 25 164 car bombing at police headquarters
          21 Aug 2009 Grozny, Chechnya 6 1 2 suicide bombings
          25 Aug 2009 Mesker-Yurt, Chechnya 4 3 bombing
          16 Sep 2009 Grozny, Chechnya 2 6 suicide bombing
          27 Nov 2009 Lykoshino, Tver 28 97 bombing and derailing of train
          17 Dec 2009 Nazran, Ingushetia 1 23 suicide bombing at police station

          6 Jan 2010 Makhachkala, Dagestan 6 14 suicide bombing
          5 Feb 2010 Makhachkala, Dagestan 4 0 shooting attack/assassination
          29 Mar 2010 Moscow 40 100 two suicide bombings on subway
          31 Mar 2010 Kizlyar, Dagestan 14 37 two suicide bombings
          1 Apr 2010 Dagestan 2 1 premature bombing, western Dagestan
          5 Apr 2010 Karabulak, Ingushetia 2 13 two bombings near police station
          9 Apr 2010 Ekazhevo, Ingushetia 2 0 shooting/suicide bombing
          29 Apr 2010 Makhachkala, Dagestan 4 16 suicide bombing at checkpoint
          1 May 2010 Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria 1 29 bombing at horse racing track
          7 May 2010 Derbent, Dagestan 1 7 bombing at train station
          13 May 2010 Ayalizi, Dagestan 12 3 bombing and shooting attack near cell phone/television tower
          27 May 2010 Stavropol, Stavropol 7 46 bombing at cultural center
          30 Jun 2010 Grozny, Chechnya 1 10 suicide bombing at checkpoint
          21 Jul 2010 Baksan, Kabardino-Balkaria 2 2 shooting/bombing attack on hydroelectric power station
          24 Jul 2010 Samara, Samara 2 14 shooting attack at market
          17 Aug 2010 Pyatigorsk, Stavropol 0 30 bombing near cafe
          17 Aug 2010 Prigorodny, North Ossetia 6 3 suicide bombing at checkpoint
          5 Sep 2010 Buinaksk, Dagestan 5 39 suicide bombing
          9 Sep 2010 Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia 18 173 car bombing near market
          19 Oct 2010 Grozny, Chechnya 6 17 armed attack on parliament building
          11 Nov 2010 Makhachkala, Dagestan 11 3 shooting attack in city center
          18 Dec 2010 Kabardino-Balkaria 8 0 kidnapping and killing of hunters from Stavropol

          24 Jan 2011 Domodedovo IAP, Moscow 37 178 suicide bombing at baggage claim area of airport
          18 Feb 2011 Mt. Elbrus, Kabardino-Balkaria 3 2 shooting attack on tourists at ski resort
          2 Aug 2011 Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Khabarovsk 0 1 bombing at nursery school
          22 Sep 2011 Makhachkala, Dagestan 10 60 three car bombings and one attempted bombing
          28 Sep 2011 Khadzhalmakhi, Dagestan 8 6 car bombing

          3 May 2012 Makhachkala, Dagestan 7 100 twin car bombings near police station
          19 Aug 2012 Malgobek, Ingushetia 8 15 suicide bombing at policeman's funeral
          19 Aug 2012 Khasavyurt, Dagestan 1 8 shooting attack at Muslim mosque

          1 May 2013 Makhachkala, Dagestan 2 2 two teenagers killed, two adults injured by bombing at shopping mall
          20 May 2013 Makhachkala, Dagestan 4 44 two car bombings
          25 May 2013 Makhachkala, Dagestan 1 18 suicide car bombing near government building, 5 police officers and 10 others injured, 1 terrorist killed
          21 Oct 2013 Volgograd, Volgograd 6 31 suicide bombing on bus
          27 Dec 2013 Pyatigorsk, Stavropol 3 0 car bombing
          29 Dec 2013 Volgograd, Volgograd 18 29 suicide bombing on bus
          30 Dec 2013 Volgograd, Volgograd 17 50 suicide bombing at entrance to train station

          8 Jan 2014 Tambukan, Stavropol 1 0 car found with body of a shooting victim, with an explosive device nearby detonating as police investigated, causing no injuries
          8 Jan 2014 Zolskaya, Stavropol 2 0 two cars found each with a body of a shooting victim; one vehicle was rigged with explosives
          8 Jan 2014 Marinskaya, Stavropol 3 0 one car found with bodies of three shooting victims; vehicle was rigged with explosives
          15 Jan 2014 Karlanyurt, Dagestan 7 5 shootout between police and militants accused in Dec. 2013 car bombings; 3 police and 4 militants killed

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          • #20
            Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

            The terrorists can walk to Russia.

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            • #21
              Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

              Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
              This is the guys you say have plan to deal with terrorists...

              I pretty sure by the idiotic comments you have made so far you don't know what a terrorist is..

              You may well be 'not tasked with defeating terrorism' but sure like increasing it... It may well have worked or maybe they were letting them go anyway, maybe he wanted the the relative dead... All we know is that the Russians killed an innocent man and you say 'that works'... Clueless....
              You don't know anything, Holmes. You don't know the topic under discussion, in particular: We're talking about that incident ... not the hundreds you can dredge up with an internet search: Further, it is clear you did not fully (or at all) vet that special list you present. There are a lot of incidences on there that maybe are ... maybe are not actual terrorist attacks. Here's a hint, Goombah: JUST using a bomb, doesn't necessarily mean it's a terrorist. Just because a CAR BOMB was used, doesn't mean it was a terrorist attack. Jeez, ditch the obtuse personae you've got going and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation (but it will take more than just me being intelligent).

              Further, if you really believe "maybe he just wanted his relative dead" and aren't trying to play the fool here, you should read that article in the opening post. Had you read it, no way you could have made such a patently absurd statement.

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              • #22
                Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

                Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                You don't know anything, Holmes. You don't know the topic under discussion, in particular: We're talking about that incident ... not the hundreds you can dredge up with an internet search: Further, it is clear you did not fully (or at all) vet that special list you present. There are a lot of incidences on there that maybe are ... maybe are not actual terrorist attacks. Here's a hint, Goombah: JUST using a bomb, doesn't necessarily mean it's a terrorist. Just because a CAR BOMB was used, doesn't mean it was a terrorist attack. Jeez, ditch the obtuse personae you've got going and maybe we can have an intelligent conversation (but it will take more than just me being intelligent).

                Further, if you really believe "maybe he just wanted his relative dead" and aren't trying to play the fool here, you should read that article in the opening post. Had you read it, no way you could have made such a patently absurd statement.
                Good1...

                Read my article
                Sources (list under construction):

                Global Terrorism Database, on line [http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/].
                International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, on line [http://www.ict.org.il/].
                Incidents of Mass Casualty Terrorism, Johnston's Archive, and sources therein.
                various news reports.
                Lets just say they know a lot more than you... So are you now questioning the information again?

                Read the article, but lets remember you supported picking up Afghans in villages from information recieved, turns out the information was from village rival and they just to take their property...

                Good1, Am I right in saying you are another one who supported the wars in the Middle East?

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                • #23
                  Re: Russia hostage solution with terrorists more appropriate?

                  Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
                  Good1...

                  Read my article


                  Lets just say they know a lot more than you... So are you now questioning the information again?

                  Read the article, but lets remember you supported picking up Afghans in villages from information recieved, turns out the information was from village rival and they just to take their property...

                  Good1, Am I right in saying you are another one who supported the wars in the Middle East?
                  wrong on all counts.

                  i supported the incursion into Afghanistan to take out Bin Laden, but we left there for Iraq before finishing the job (reference my rant against politicians who won't let our Military do their jobs). I understood going into Iraq when we thought they still had WMD that they had used on the Kurds at least once before... But we stayed too long there, and then we went BACK to Afghanistan (inexplicably) to flounder around under a failed commander in chief... Let's just say the "war on Terror" is not hitting on any of the cylinders for which it was originally conceived.

                  but what are you talking about the afghan village and it's rival?

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