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Looks like the US exports terror too.

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  • Looks like the US exports terror too.

    Looks like the US gets to join the UK and other European nations that also export terrorism. Begs a question that I know has come up as recently as last week for the UK, should we revoke the passport (and perhaps even citizenship) of someone we suspect is fighting for ISIS, al-Qaeda, or any other affiliate of?

    It is a tough one as we are talking about sidestepping a few due process concerns so I tend to be against the idea but then again we are talking about ISIS who want to eventually harm the US.

    Thoughts?

    U.S. on alert amid claim of new American killed fighting for extremists in Syria

    (CNN) -- Dozens of Americans have been among the thousands of foreigners who flocked to Syria to take part in its bloody, messy civil war. Yet for the three years, there was only one known American casualty.

    But, in a few short days, that death toll may have tripled.

    On Wednesday -- months after a Florida man killed himself in a northern Syria suicide bombing and a day after news broke that Douglas McAuthur McCain, a 33-year-old man reared in Minnesota, died fighting for ISIS -- a coalition of Syrian opposition groups announced that its forces had killed another American in battle.

    The coalition did not name the fallen American. But it did say he and McCain died as its forces battled Kharijites, a historical reference to fanatical Muslims who rejected moderate teachings and advocated killing those who violated ultraconservative values.

    The coalition noted that its fighters from groups with names such as Hazem Movement, the Islamic Front, Al-Mujahideen Army, Noureddine, al Zanki Battalion, Faylak Al Sham had joined those from the more moderate Free Syrian Army and more extremist al-Nusra Front. They took on ISIS forces last weekend in and around Aleppo -- which is where McCain was killed.
    Claim: New American dead fighting for Syria extremists - CNN.com

  • #2
    Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

    FoxNews is going a little further with the story...

    Sources say second American killed fighting with ISIS in Syria identified as Abdirahmaan Muhumed

    A second American reportedly killed fighting with the Islamic State group in Syria has been identified as Abdirahmaan Muhumed, of Minneapolis, two sources told Fox News late Wednesday.

    KMSP-TV in Minneapolis reported that Muhumed was killed in the same battle as Douglas McArthur McCain, who grew up outside Minneapolis in the town of New Hope and most recently lived in San Diego. The State Department confirmed McCain's death earlier this week, but spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Wednesday that the U.S. has no independent confirmation of the second American's death. "We're looking into it," she said.

    A source told Fox News that Muhumed's family had been sent a photo of his body from Syria, but had not been formally notified by the State Department. Fox News was unable to contact the family.

    A profile of Muhumed by Minnesota Public Radio this past June described him as a 29-year-old Somali-American who had been married more than once and was a father of nine children. MPR reported, citing the FBI, that at least 15 young men from the Twin Citites' Somali-American community had traveled to Syria to join Islamic State, the militant group formerly known as ISIS that has captured wide swathes of territory in Syria and Iraq.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...isis-in-syria/

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    • #3
      Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

      I figure American citizens have been going to the ME for this training or that war for about a decade (or since the twin towers fell and Bush declared Jihad, such as it was, on terror.

      I'm not so sure even now those numbers, however, are pretty small (do we even track? I don't know) but it becomes news, as CNN just pointed out, when the number of Americans killed while participating in a foreign army is "tripled." We are STILL only talking about three people (all of whom made foolish choices).

      My greater concern is, how many of them are returning to the United States and what is their plan, now that they have all this terror experience?

      I'm pretty sure they will not be returning via conventional commercial transportation because even whacks will know the FBI is waiting for them. So that leaves a return across our southern border and, if they get caught, <hands up> "Don't SHOOT ... I'm an American Citizen..."

      So, yes, at this point I think it would be prudent to give proper notice, try them (probably in absentia), and revoke their U.S. Citizenship ... but it won't make any difference since we're not controlling our southern border, anyway.

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      • #4
        Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

        Loons going overseas isnt the U.S. exportin terror, it's not like past efforts where we aupported Islamists in toppling governments, or had training programs for secret police and paramilitary brigades, or were involved with illicit trade in drugs and weapons.

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        • #5
          Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

          Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
          Loons going overseas isnt the U.S. exportin terror, it's not like past efforts where we aupported Islamists in toppling governments, or had training programs for secret police and paramilitary brigades, or were involved with illicit trade in drugs and weapons.
          I was not speaking of export in US sponsorship terms or anything of the like. But the title does have merit. Somewhere at some point along the lines a few of these guys converted to Islam then took a path that lead them to groups like ISIS. In that sense we are exporting fighters over to the region and some are dying there. It is an export, even if facilitated by those outside this nation.

          For the purposes of our discussion we are at a crossroad on how to handle those not killed eventually wanting to come back presumably with plans to do something here. Recruitment for future foreign conflict is bad enough but far worse would be attacks here. Do we revoke passports and citizenship for these guys traveling under ISIS (or similar) banners to the fight?

          I personally have major constitutional concerns about it but I also see the reasoning for supporting the idea.

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          • #6
            Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

            You can't revoke the citizenship of a natural citizen, they can not be exhiled. Travel papers can be revoked but they can still reenter the country. It is far more effective to charge them with crimes and prosecute based on those crimes.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

              I am going to contact the Koch Brothers today with the idea that they fund a Islamist Jihad Travel Fund. A couple of million should do the trick.

              Anyone wanting to die for Allah should be accommodated at once and their death expedited...

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              • #8
                Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                I am going to contact the Koch Brothers today with the idea that they fund a Islamist Jihad Travel Fund. A couple of million should do the trick.

                Anyone wanting to die for Allah should be accommodated at once and their death expedited...
                Agreed. Furthermore their US passport and claims to citizenship need to be surrendered as well, i.e. don't come back.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                  Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                  You can't revoke the citizenship of a natural citizen, they can not be exhiled. Travel papers can be revoked but they can still reenter the country. It is far more effective to charge them with crimes and prosecute based on those crimes.
                  Yeah, I figured as much.

                  But what would they be charged with? IF they were firing on U.S. troops, that would be one thing ... but fighting in a foreign army against foreigners? Not sure how they could be charged (not saying they can't ... just that I don't know).

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                    Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                    You can't revoke the citizenship of a natural citizen, they can not be exhiled. Travel papers can be revoked but they can still reenter the country. It is far more effective to charge them with crimes and prosecute based on those crimes.
                    not true:

                    Potentially Expatriating Acts

                    Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. nationals are subject to loss of nationality if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Briefly stated, these acts include:

                    obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
                    taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
                    entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
                    accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
                    formally renouncing U.S. nationality before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
                    formally renouncing U.S. nationality within the United States (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
                    conviction for an act of treason against the Government of the United States or for attempting to force to overthrow the Government of the United States (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).
                    Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Nationality and Dual Nationality

                    Also see here:

                    Advice about Possible Loss of U.S. Nationality and Foreign Military Service

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                    • #11
                      Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                      Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                      Dozens of Americans have been among the thousands of foreigners who flocked to Syria to take part in its bloody, messy civil war.
                      Really? When "dozens" from the third most populous country in the world join "thousands", then you have an insignificant number. Not even worth mentioning to be honest.

                      Heck, we even had Americans fighting for Germany and Japan in WWII, does that mean "America exported Nazis"?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                        Originally posted by Mushroom View Post
                        Really? When "dozens" from the third most populous country in the world join "thousands", then you have an insignificant number. Not even worth mentioning to be honest.

                        Heck, we even had Americans fighting for Germany and Japan in WWII, does that mean "America exported Nazis"?
                        Looks like the answer is yes.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                          Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                          You can't revoke the citizenship of a natural citizen, they can not be exhiled. Travel papers can be revoked but they can still reenter the country. It is far more effective to charge them with crimes and prosecute based on those crimes.
                          This, right here, is how it should be handled. Ignoring the rule of law is never a good precedent to set. I mean, look where ignoring the rule has gotten us so far.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                            They have to indent to relenquish citizenship themselves when they undertake the specific actions listed. It says as such right at the top.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Looks like the US exports terror too.

                              Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                              This, right here, is how it should be handled. Ignoring the rule of law is never a good precedent to set. I mean, look where ignoring the rule has gotten us so far.
                              Laws seem to be such a bothersome obstacle to the imagined american way as opposed to the real american way which depends on law to be.

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