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Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

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  • #31
    Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

    Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
    ahoy Erikvv,

    'tis odd, but it seems that only folks on the front lines ought to get medals or somethin'.
    Everyone gets medals, whether you're on the front lines or not. The question is the degree of the medal that is in question. Why should someone who gave up his life, or is in danger and separated from their family living in the suck for a year be subordinate to someone who plays video games at Nellis AFB and then goes home to fuck his wife?

    the way i see it, ye need yer infantry...a protection warrior or blood death knight or somethin', to take the enemy's attention, aye? but ultimately ye need high damage per second classes in the rear to actually kill things. ye need mages to cast arcane explosion, or warlocks to cast thar shadowbolts from a safe need yer elemental shamans blastin' away from afar with thar lava bursts and chain lightenin' casts.

    ye can't just hand out medals to rogues, retribution paladins, fury warriors and feral druids.

    that wouldn't be fair and equitable.

    *nods enthusiastically*


    - MeadHallPirate
    Your example falls a little short of the reality of the matter. Yer ranged DPS is more like artillary and real pilots who fly our Apache helicopters, C-130 Spectre Gunships, ect. In your example, everyone has a chance of dying. If ranged dps doesn't move out of the AOE or the tanks fall, everyone dies and you wipe. No one at Nellis AFB in Nevada are in danger of dying except by boredom (it's not all action like you see in the movies).

    מה מכילות החדשות?

    • #32
      Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

      Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
      still, the drone operators might be nuked...or targeted by suicide bombers. 'tis possible, afterall - the Pentagon was targeted a few years back and hit on September 11th.
      Right but the chances are what?....significantly less than your chances of dying in a car crash? If you bring up 9/11 then you're actually proving that civilian jobs are much more dangerous and likely to be killed than military ones. After all, thousands died in the WTCs as compared to 125 people in the Pentagon. Also, it's the Pentagon, of course it's going to be higher on the list of places to attack than anything else.

      "Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, announcing the new "Distinguished Warfare Medal," said it was time to recognize those who play a crucial role in modern warfare with hi-tech weapons far from the frontline. "Our military reserves its highest decorations obviously for those who display gallantry and valor in actions where their lives are on the line, and we will continue to do so," Panetta told a Pentagon news conference.

      "But we should also have the ability to honor the extraordinary actions that make a true difference in combat operations."

      He said operators of unmanned, robotic aircraft and cyber weapons "contribute to the success of combat operations, particularly when they remove the enemy from the field of battle, even if those actions are physically removed from the fight." The medal reflects a new age of warfare that emerged over the past decade featuring robotic weapons and digital combat."

      Read more at: Pentagon creates new medal for cyber, drone warriors

      ^----Of course they can recognize people for doing a good job. We already have medals for this. Regardless, it doesn't compare to those are are also doing a good job but they are putting their lives on the line. I stand by my statement that this is a PR move to try and make heroes out of people playing video games to try and get some support for a very unpopular tool of the admin.

      when i was GM and captain 'o me own vessel, i'd promote and reward non-raiders from time to time. maybe they farmed fer some kinda reagent needed to make capes with frost resistance (Mount Hyjal in the Burning Crusade, aye) or maybe they made mighty contributions to the guild bank so we could gear up a new Holy Paladin our raid needed. without these folks, thar be no guild, so they're all important.

      i also just like the idear 'o gamin' geeks havin' thar day in the sun.
      They do have their day in the sun. I'm in a job that is considered the geek of the geeks. Us in SIGINT are the military intelligence of the military intelligence. We are known for being gamers, table-toppers, LARPers, and all kinds of nerdiness. I'll admit that I'm a jock-geek hybrid, as you've probably figured out. That aside, we still deploy and there are aspects of our job that are very dangerous. One guy in my platoon was out on a patrol, attached to an infantry unit, it was his first one of the deployment. An IED cut one guy in half and took the face off of another guy. The guy that was cut in half lived for a few minutes. Conversely, my job field also enables many people to not deploy at all. Most of us could actually do our jobs w/o deploying. I was stationed for a few years at a place that was non-deploying. That is significantly different than what I've done on deployment to Iraq with the 1st Cav or to Afghanistan with the 4th ID.

      it amuses me when i see all this alpha male flexin' ondeck, 'bout folks who yearn fer the collapse 'o society and how they'll fight government in the trenches with thar deer rifles, thar Dinty Moore™, thar dumb campin' gear...all the moronic videos 'o folks doin' pushups and runnin' obstacle courses in the woods. i've always felt that a roomful 'o pale, Red Bull™ drinkin' computer nerds in hoodies who had a grasp 'o hacker exploits could utterly lulzsec the Federal Government - and i'd pick'm over a bunch 'o amped up middle aged Outward Bound wanna be's any day 'o the week.
      Agreed. I think people romanticize how what it would be like. It would be a lot of your buddies and family dying and possibly living in horrible conditions but having to keep sticking it out.

      so imma ok with this medal afterall, though a few months ago i thought the idear was goofy.'re letting personal feelings get in the way of how things should be. The nerd doesn't always get the girl, no matter how the movies make it out to be.

      this might be a good time to encourage South Korean immigration to our nation....the best gamers in all the seven seas!

      ye might not know these fellas, but second from the right is Boxer, a legend in the Starcraft™ gamin' community fer his ground breakin' Terran play and micro skills. the more i think 'o it, the more i like the idear 'o gamers gettin' good medals.


      - MeadHallPirate
      I haven't played SC in quite a while. I played SCII for a bit but I never really got into it too much. I like building up in games and using all the high end equipment. Competitive RTSs are basically a practice of who can zerg the best.

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      • #33
        Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

        Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
        imma really ok with this medal. does it seems silly? aye, kinda, but it doesn't offend me as much as ye does ye....which is understandable. i get vexed o'er folks who steal on Pirate Bay, but no one cares 'bout that. it just depends on yer point 'o view, i guess.
        Seems pretty damn silly. This medal will have precedent over medals that are earned by putting your ass on the line, something people who could conceivably be awarded this medal are not being asked to do.

        מה מכילות החדשות?

        • #34
          Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

          Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
          i like the idear that if yer a skinny, nerdy sorta fella who'd probably never amount to much carryin' a rifle on the front lines, ye can still have yer moment 'o distinguished glory if yer a really, really good at usin' the joystick and various knobs and controls at the drone station.
          I have no problem with men like that being recognized or even awarded medals. I do have a problem with them being awarded medals that are on par, or above, medals earned in actual combat.

          Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
          i could also imagine if the nation be invaded by land or somethin', then maybe the drone bunkers whar these folk ply thar trade might get targeted. wouldn't these folk ultimately have to come out and fight, if thar drone place was hit by a bomb or somethin'? drone operators know how to use guns and stuffs, aye?
          Medals for valor aren't awarded for simply being shot at. If they were forced to come out and fight, ie close with and engage an enemy, then that would be entirely different. I don't know about their weapons proficiency or what they are asked to do as part of their basic training, as these drone operators are Air Force.

          מה מכילות החדשות?

          • #35
            Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

            Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
            ahoy ThorHammer,

            bear with me matey, fer this be a philosophical point i was raisin' earlier that no one took me up on...and if imma wrong on any 'o me assumptions, feel free to correct me.

            medals 'o valor primarily go to folks on the front lines 'o combat, aye? its a "type" 'o commendation. if yer one 'o the upper echelon assets 'o the military (a general, an admiral, a high rankin' intelligence officer, a drone pilot expert - the Red Baron 'o drone pilots!) yer seldom if ever on the front lines, aye?

            them front line folks be like the blue collar assembly heroes 'o our industrial revolution. that doesn't mean that folks in corporate, though, weren't doin' equally "heroic" and critical tasks...super important deeds, aye? so maybe thar be no valor in the corner office, just as thar be no valor in the drone bunker, but the service rendered thar outpaces the more "minor acts 'o valor" on the battlefield, and be recognized as such, aye?

            do ye get me meanin'? imma not sure what i wrote above be clearly written.

            - MeadHallPirate
            You wrote it as clear as a pirate can.

            Yes, valor medals are given out for valor in combat. I am not trying to downplay the critical roles played by many "upper echelon assets", as you term them. What I am saying is that award them medals on par with, or even higher than, valor medals is a step too far and a slap in the face to anyone who has ever been awarded one.

            Look at it this way. If a drone pilot, for example, fucks up what happens? In the best scenario he sits back, says "awww man, game over" and takes a sip of his coffee or coke. Worst case scenario, his fuck up might get men killed. Regardless of the scenario, the drone pilot will never be in danger. Now look at an infantryman. What happens when he fucks up doing his job, or is just plain unlucky? Odds are he is going to pay for it with his life or come out of it with a serious physical injury that will stay with him the rest of his life. I won't even go into the mental burdens. Ask yourself, Pirate, my friend, who's service outpaces who's. Who is putting more on the line? You're telling me there should be non-combat related medals that take precedence over medals where those that earn them actually put their lives on the line?

            מה מכילות החדשות?

            • #36
              Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

              Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
              ahoy ThorHammer,

              imma not tryin' to be provocative here, matey, i just wanted to clarify that.


              so yer sayin' then, fer example, that the folks who work the line at the meatpackin' slaughterhouses be the real heroes, not the well paid executives at Tyson Foods?
              You're not trying to be provocative? Please Pirate.....

              No, they aren't heroes and neither are the well paid executives. I am talking about the military, Pirate. There is a pretty big fucking difference.

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              • #37
                Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

                Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
                really, if yer goin' to hand out Bronze Stars fer "acts of valor", as the ones depicted, imma fine with some top end quality gamers gettin' a drone medal that ranks o'er the Bronze Star.


                - MeadHallPirate
                I'm not ok with those examples and that is why, at least in my experience, bronze stars with valor devices (the "V") are viewed as being real bronze stars. Bronze stars are being handed out like candy these days.

                Still, this new medal would rank higher than a bronze star with a V. That isn't right.

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                • #38
                  Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

                  Originally posted by MeadHallPirate
                  ahoy ThorHammer,

                  okies matey, i can agree thats not right - but i think them expert drone operations who serve with distinction should then qualify fer the Bronze Star without the "V" thingy, aye?

                  - MeadHallPirate
                  They should be able to qualify for that. I got one for the job I did in Afghanistan but my job did not involve actual combat.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

                    I want to clarify that they already should be be able to qualify for that. I see no regulation that would prohibit them from getting one and I'm sure many already have them. Of course, I would never compare my BSM to a BSM with V.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Obama admin continues to demonstrate ignorance regarding the military.

                      My issue with this medal is not that it is given at all, I actually have no issue with this award.

                      My issue is with it's precidence. Putting it as high as it is is what the real joke and insult is.

                      If they want to make this award, fine. I am all for it. But at most rate it equal to or no higher then an ARCOM with a Combat V.

                      Making a "combat award" with no risk to the life of the individual to me is frankly insulting to all of those that have put their lives at risk.

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