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Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

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  • #31
    Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

    Originally posted by Formaldehyde View Post
    I am a software developer. So far, I have refused to use patents because I definitely think they are unfair and overly restrictive in my industry. But copyright is an entirely different story. Without it, someone could simply take my software and claim it as their own. If you were an author, songwriter, or an architect as tsquare apparently is (your tar makes far more sense now!), I'm sure you would understand.
    Software patents are certainly bizarre and ridiculous in the software industry. the number of firms trying to claim patents in e-commerce is amusing.

    I have a few routines and algorithms I produced years back on a copyleft license of sorts and once in a while I get notice from some small developer they are using some of it and it tickles me pink (some of them are over 15 years old and written in archaic code). I get no money out of this but I didn't choose to do so with the work I did as is my right as the copyright holder.

    People in non-creative fields don't get it. Even in my case where I've produced materials that may be used freely I've still placed some restrictions on it as it is my right as it was my work that allowed their work to be produced.

    In this particular case, the people who came up with this test want the princely sum of $1.23 from anybody who wishes to take it. It certainly isn't going to bankrupt anybody who actually needs the test to determine their own condition, and it certainly isn't going to be a financial burden on anybody who may want to study it academically. It is quite similar to the fair-use copyright charges for xeroxing portions of textbooks that many professors do for their classes.
    It is a rather small fee. I wonder if clinicians that may make use of it do their work for free and if Hoplite argues they should?


    One of the primary reasons I am so opposed to the patent laws is the way the drug companies currently screw people who are in dire need of these medicines. They also have a seriously debilitating and stifling influence on the computer industry. Most of the computer algorithms which are patented are what I would consider to be quite obvious and trivial, which is not supposed to be subject to patent in the first place. The owners are deliberately trying to restrain others from directly competing with them in a manner that I consider to be monopolistic. I have no idea why they are allowed to get away with what I consider to be criminal activity, but they do.
    There is some merit to the Patent process and use in law but it seems to be employed in a predatory fashion by far too many firms.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #32
      Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

      Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
      I do understand, I am a writer and have not claimed copyright on any piece of work that has ever left my hands.
      Has any of it had commercial value which needed protection so nobody would steal it, much less sell it as their own?

      Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
      That aside, I'm not advocating we have an override in the copyright laws when it comes to things like music or movies however I find it asinine on a personal level that someone can place a copyright on such things.
      What is so "asinine" about trying to stop thieves from taking your property? Many in this forum even think that one should be able to use lethal force to stop someone from taking your DVD. What makes the electronic form any different?

      It used to be that the only real thieves of music and movies were the people who sold bootleg cassettes and videotapes in flea markets until the advent of the internet. Now, it has become a pervasive problem which results in higher prices for everybody.

      Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
      The pharmaceutical example is one I would consider of being in the public interest, where we need some sort of override built in that will give credit for the discovery to whomever makes it but the resulting product is available for free or low cost.
      The problem is that US pharma companies are exploitative while the ones in other countries are not. Much of it is due to our absurd laws which don't even allow us to purchase the far cheaper versions regulated by other countries because they might be "bad". What sort of ludicrous excuse is that?

      I completely agree that patents are a problem that drastically need to be fixed. But the only real issue I have with copyright is how long it currently is.

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      • #33
        Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

        Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
        I do understand, I am a writer and have not claimed copyright on any piece of work that has ever left my hands.

        That aside, I'm not advocating we have an override in the copyright laws when it comes to things like music or movies however I find it asinine on a personal level that someone can place a copyright on such things.

        How would you feel if you wrote a song and someone stole it from you and went platinum with it? I know I'd be pissed! Copyrights protect individuals from such things and there's nothing asinine about it.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #34
          Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

          Originally posted by Formaldehyde View Post
          Has any of it had commercial value which needed protection so nobody would steal it, much less sell it as their own?
          I'm sure someone could make a dime off it if they tried hard enough. I've written things for other people that have been copyrighted as part of the deal with them, but I havent copyrighted anything I've written thus far and I dont really see a need to do so.

          What is so "asinine" about trying to stop thieves from taking your property? Many in this forum even think that one should be able to use lethal force to stop someone from taking your DVD. What makes the electronic form any different?
          Because we're not talking about actual property. All we're talking about is the guy who stuck his hand up first. Patents and copyright dont recognize who actually created something, they recognize whoever slapped a label on it first and often that isnt the same person. There are PLENTY of people who've been screwed out of "rightful" compensation because of a copyright issue.

          The idea that one can "own" an image or a sound is just mind-boggling to me, I genuinely cannot wrap my mind around that idea. If you have someone that takes a picture of something, say a car, that person can then copyright that image and no one else can use it unless the photographer says ok. But then someone else can go take a virtually identical picture of the same car, copyright that, and now you have two virtually identical images that are basically indistinguishable from each other yet each is PROPERTY by the sheer fact that someone claimed it.

          It used to be that the only real thieves of music and movies were the people who sold bootleg cassettes and videotapes in flea markets until the advent of the internet. Now, it has become a pervasive problem which results in higher prices for everybody.
          Bull. I have a very hard time taking seriously an industry crying piracy when they've bemoaned the invention of everything from VCR's to sheet music as the death of whatever entertainment form they represented at the time.


          Originally posted by Mrs. M View Post
          How would you feel if you wrote a song and someone stole it from you and went platinum with it?
          I'd probably be a little irritated but truthfully it wouldnt bother me overly much, people are listening to the music and enjoying it. My irritation would probably directly correlate to how bad off I was financially; struggling to get enough money together to pay rent would mean more irritation than being reasonably comfortable.

          I know I'd be pissed! Copyrights protect individuals from such things and there's nothing asinine about it.
          Laws are not designed around what will and wont piss you off.
          Last edited by Hoplite; 01-12-2012, 01:23 AM.

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          • #35
            Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

            Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
            I'm sure someone could make a dime off it if they tried hard enough. I've written things for other people that have been copyrighted as part of the deal with them, but I havent copyrighted anything I've written thus far and I dont really see a need to do so.
            Then obviously, you're not trying to make a living by writing because if you were, you'd understand the importance of copyright laws.


            Because we're not talking about actual property. All we're talking about is the guy who stuck his hand up first. Patents and copyright dont recognize who actually created something, they recognize whoever slapped a label on it first and often that isnt the same person. There are PLENTY of people who've been screwed out of "rightful" compensation because of a copyright issue.
            If I write a book anonymously and don't have it copyrighted and Joe Blow takes my book and copyrights it, whose fault is it that I got screwed? Mine! The copyright law was there to protect me and I didn't utilize it so I can blame no one but myself.

            The idea that one can "own" an image or a sound is just mind-boggling to me, I genuinely cannot wrap my mind around that idea. If you have someone that takes a picture of something, say a car, that person can then copyright that image and no one else can use it unless the photographer says ok. But then someone else can go take a virtually identical picture of the same car, copyright that, and now you have two virtually identical images that are basically indistinguishable from each other yet each is PROPERTY by the sheer fact that someone claimed it.
            I'm not 100% positive but I think the first person would be able to fight the second person in court.

            Bull. I have a very hard time taking seriously an industry crying piracy when they've bemoaned the invention of everything from VCR's to sheet music as the death of whatever entertainment form they represented at the time.
            Whether you take it seriously or not, piracy is a big problem and the cost is passed down to the consumer.


            I'd probably be a little irritated but truthfully it wouldnt bother me overly much, people are listening to the music and enjoying it. My irritation would probably directly correlate to how bad off I was financially; struggling to get enough money together to pay rent would mean more irritation than being reasonably comfortable.
            If a person makes a living off of song writing, only a saint would say "I'd probably be a little irritated..." if a song was stolen.


            Laws are not designed around what will and wont piss you off.
            I didn't say they were. I said that copyright laws protect individuals from someone taking credit for and profiting from someone else's work.

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            • #36
              Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
              People in non-creative fields don't get it. Even in my case where I've produced materials that may be used freely I've still placed some restrictions on it as it is my right as it was my work that allowed their work to be produced.
              Even worse, it has primarily become an an excuse for piracy these days.

              While I think anybody should have the right to make backup copies or to record media which is broadcast for their later enjoyment by using a DVR or VCR, I certainly draw the line with making it available on the internet for others to copy. There are only a handful of cases where I think it is morally valid to do so. One is the unwillingness of Microsoft to provide backup copies of their OS with the sale of many bundled systems. But downloading the OS from a third-party site still requires entering the valid product key, so no harm no foul.

              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
              There is some merit to the Patent process and use in law but it seems to be employed in a predatory fashion by far too many firms.
              I agree. The basic premise of patents is quite sound. Individuals and companies which do the R&D should be fairly compensated for those efforts. It has just become so abused in recent history, especially by the computer industry.

              Most of the abuse would simply disappear if they changed the protected time frame from the current 20 years to something more reasonable, like 2-4 years, while severely increasing the criteria whether an idea is obvious or trivial. This would help ensure that companies would allow their patents to be used by others for far less compensation so they could gain as much income as possible during the patent lifetime, as well as largely eliminating their use to create monopolies.

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              • #37
                Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

                Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
                The idea that one can "own" an image or a sound is just mind-boggling to me, I genuinely cannot wrap my mind around that idea. If you have someone that takes a picture of something, say a car, that person can then copyright that image and no one else can use it unless the photographer says ok. But then someone else can go take a virtually identical picture of the same car, copyright that, and now you have two virtually identical images that are basically indistinguishable from each other yet each is PROPERTY by the sheer fact that someone claimed it.
                Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
                Laws are not designed around what will and wont piss you off.
                Likewise, laws are not designed around what will and won't boggle your mind.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #38
                  Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

                  Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
                  I'm sure someone could make a dime off it if they tried hard enough. I've written things for other people that have been copyrighted as part of the deal with them, but I havent copyrighted anything I've written thus far and I dont really see a need to do so.
                  Under U.S. law (and in many other nations) the act of authorship is all that is required to establish copyright.



                  The idea that one can "own" an image or a sound is just mind-boggling to me, I genuinely cannot wrap my mind around that idea. If you have someone that takes a picture of something, say a car, that person can then copyright that image and no one else can use it unless the photographer says ok. But then someone else can go take a virtually identical picture of the same car, copyright that, and now you have two virtually identical images that are basically indistinguishable from each other yet each is PROPERTY by the sheer fact that someone claimed it.
                  The copyright on an image doesn't represent ownership of the image alone it represents the work and resources used in getting the image and making it available to others. It's property becasue someone put in the creativity, resources and labor.

                  I'd probably be a little irritated but truthfully it wouldnt bother me overly much, people are listening to the music and enjoying it. My irritation would probably directly correlate to how bad off I was financially; struggling to get enough money together to pay rent would mean more irritation than being reasonably comfortable.
                  So if you completed a difficult task at work, possibly improving procedure for everyone, and another employee took credit and got a promotion that wouldn't bother you?

                  Do the clinicians that make use of the evaluation forms at the top of the thread offer their services for free and gain no recompense?

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                  • #39
                    Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

                    Originally posted by Hoplite View Post
                    People shouldn't be able to derail the process of discoveries that can help people that need it for the sake of making money.
                    There is an override, during WWI, all aircraft patents were put in a pool and royalties were set at 1% by the government, any manufacturer could use any patents in the pool, and information was to be freely exchanged between all aircraft manufacturers.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

                      It is odd that the maker of the mini mental would claim copyrights at this point in the game. It has been freely distributed for decades now. Also... it's not like it's some great scientific work. It was probably "developed" in about 30 minutes. It's literally about ten easy questions like; what day of the week is it, what is the date, what year is it... and copy these shapes. It's merely a pre-screening tool that could easily be duplicated by anyone.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Copyright Claim Sets Back Cognitive Impairment Testing

                        Originally posted by Unique POV View Post
                        It is odd that the maker of the mini mental would claim copyrights at this point in the game. It has been freely distributed for decades now. Also... it's not like it's some great scientific work. It was probably "developed" in about 30 minutes. It's literally about ten easy questions like; what day of the week is it, what is the date, what year is it... and copy these shapes. It's merely a pre-screening tool that could easily be duplicated by anyone.
                        And all it would take to legally replace it is a non-derivative work.

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