Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules - You must read(Updated!)

DISCLAIMER

You agree to NOT use this site or its affiliated sites, services you may have access to as a result of being a member here (subscriber or otherwise), to post items (images, textual material, etc.) that are pornographic in nature, illegal in the United States and/or the country you reside in, support or encourage illegal activities (e.g., terrorism), advertise for your own personal profit, or send unsolicited messages (i.e. SPAM) to members or non-members.

AND

You agree that if any clause or component of this document is found to not be legally binding in a court of law of proper jurisdiction then the remainder of this document shall remain fully binding and in full force.

AND

You agree to NOT hold Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (makers of the forum software), uspoliticsonline.com, sites affiliated with uspoliticsonline.com, its administrators, its moderators, others associated with its operation, and its owners liable for any and all of the following (in whole or in part):
Personal insults/attacks by other members.
The content posted by other members, whether directed at you personally or a label/classification you associate with. This includes remarks you consider to be libelous or slanderous in any way.
Any financial or time loss due to your participation here or as a result of something you read at this site, including posts/PMs by other members and feature(s)/software available at the domain uspoliticsonline.com.
The dissemination of any personal information about you as a result of either your negligence (e.g. staying logged into a computer that others have access to) or willingness to post such information on a public and or private forum, private message or chat box. This includes using your real name or other details that could allow other members and/or the general public to determine your true identity. You are prohibited from using your real name on these forums, either as your username or in posts / PMs you write.

FORUM RULES, IN ADDITION TO THE DISCLAIMER

1. These rules apply to all sections of USPOL, including public and private forums, blogs, and visitor messages.

2. You cannot attack and/or personally insult someone. You cannot bait other forum members; this includes referring to posters by derogatory terms. Please, remain courteous and respectful to all forum members at all times. You agree to take responsibility for reporting such posts when you come across them. Please, use the ignore feature if need be. Any member who intentionally and continually posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response, or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion, may be regarded as a troll by staff, and have their account suspended or banned.

3. You cannot harass (sexually or otherwise) other members. This includes malicious, slanderous, or defamatory comments. If you are not sure if something you write is inappropriate or not then don't say it. Err on the side of caution.

4. Copying and Pasting Articles, and Starting New Threads. You cannot simply cut and paste in posts or when starting threads. You MUST provide the identifying information (source, author, date, and URL). You must also offer some original thoughts along with the cut and paste. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts from the article. Excerpts really shouldnt be more then a paragraph or two. Furthermore, if you use images or other copyrighted material in your posts or signature you must have permission of the copyright holder unless you know for a fact that the image is in the public domain. In addition:
a. It must include the identifying information; e.g., where available, the author, the publication, the date, the URL.
b. The member must offer some context, including: How did you hear of this article? What is your opinion? Why is it important to you? Why should it be important to forum readers? The more context you provide, the more you assist others in gauging the excerpted information's significance.
c. You may copy and paste an excerpt or series of excerpts, not the whole thing or even the majority of the whole thing to encourage people to read the entire article.

A violation of any of the above will result in the deletion or closing of the post or thread and could earn you a warning or suspension. If you have any questions concering any of the above please PM a moderator and we will be happy to clarify.

5. You cannot post the same thing in multiple forums. You must not open similar threads about the same or a similar topic. You cannot spam the board or send unsolicited messages to members via PM, email or any other means.

6. Do not post off-topic. You cannot derail a thread with off topic posts.

7. You cannot shout in posts. This includes posting in all CAPS, bold, lIkE tHiS, and extra large font. Posts should also be one color, although you may use an additional color for highlighting ideas you wish to address.

8. You may not alter quotes in a way that misrepresents what was originally said.

9. Multiple accounts are not allowed. If you are found to have more than one account all accounts will be permanently terminated.

10. You cannot have a user name, avatar, signature, or post images that are deliberately offensive. That includes the display of overly explicit or graphic images that may not be suitable for minors.

11. Signatures can not have more than three lines of text, with a font size no larger than "4", and no more than two font colors. Images in signatures cannot be any larger than 800 pixels wide x 200 pixels tall. Animated images are not allowed.

12. You are prohibited from taking any action to disturb the use of the services by others, distribute material that contains viruses, spyware or any other malicious code or harmful programs. This includes interfering with the working of the network, attempts to gain unauthorized access to a service or other computer systems that are part of the site or any other site, by use of the available services.

13. Discussion of moderation actions in public and/or private forums is not permitted. Moderation actions include warnings, suspensions and the editing or deletion of posts. If a member has a concern about a moderation action, he or she is invited to address it with the board staff via Private Message. This rule exists to protect the privacy of all posters with regards to disciplinary action. The moderator team will never publicly discuss the warnings/suspensions of any posters, and we ask that you return the favor, whether about yourself or another poster. Posting about moderation actions in the public forums constitutes a violation. You are free to discuss a moderation action via Private Message with the moderator involved, but you may not harass or abuse the moderators (as already specified in the forum rules). In practical terms, this means that once a moderator tells you his or her decision is final, no further PMs about that moderation action are permitted. If you have a concern about a moderation action, you are free to appeal to a Forum Administrator via Private Message. You may only discuss moderator activities or discussion of moderation with staff member if you chose to private message and are not under any circumstances allowed to use the PM function to forward or promote moderator discussion in regards to specific forum action, amongst other regular members. Administrators do reserve the right to read said PMs and may do so ; if that results in discovery of messaging between posters of such moderator discussion then it will lead to the same violation being received for discussing said moderator actions on the forum. If you receive a message to the effect of having been given moderator information, please report it to a member of staff. Engaging back in that discussion with the original violator will earn you just as stiff a sanction.

14. Do not ignore moderators or administrators. Do not repost something a moderator or administrator has deleted. You cannot have moderators or administrators on your ignore list.

15. Only post in English. Short passages in foreign languages may be acceptable if its use seems helpful for the ongoing discussion and when there is no indication of a potential violation of the forum rules. Always provide a translation into English in such cases. In case of doubt, the incident will be regarded as a violation, no matter of the actual meaning of the foreign language text.

16. The use of words/comments etc. written by other posters, without approval of the poster in your personal signature is not allowed nor are references, by name, to other posters allowed.

17. Please pay attention to announcements by Forum staff that will be found in the "Welcome! / News & Announcements" forum from time to time.

18. Use of "liar", "lies", "lying", etc. Accusing someone of being a "liar" or similar accusations towards other posters will generally be regarded as implying an insult and therewith as a violation of the forum rules. "I question the validity of your statement because...", "That's not the truth" or "you are wrong about that" are sufficient for any decent discussion if you want to disagree with somebody's assertions.

19. Thread opening restriction for new members. In order to control SPAM, new members must have moderator approval to start their own threads.

20. Thread titles must relate to the discussion within. Do not make misleading titles, or titles such as "Guess what..." or "You'll never believe this...". Members need to be able to identify the general gist of the thread via the title. Profanity in thread titles is not permitted.

21. Forum members are instructed to use forum tools and abilities for their intended purposes and no other. If members identify a forum glitch or weakness of any kind that allows you to see or do something you know you shouldn't, please report it. Being aware of any unintended access to the Forum and failing to take appropriate steps to notify staff of said access issues, will create a presumption of seeking to take advantage of the issue, will result in either account suspension, or banishment.

22. Any link to a site that contains graphic content, must contain a warning describing what a person might reasonably expect to view if they click on said link. No graphic pictures are to be posted on the Forum.

23. Threats or advocations of violence toward a public figure, or member of the Forum, will not be tolerated. Conversation about revolution or the like is not prohibited by this rule; directly calling for violence is, eg It's time to kill every <redacted> that voted for the bill, is not permitted.

24. Accounts with no posts will be deleted after 30 days. Inactive accounts with low post histories may be deleted after one year.

25. Private forums are something offered to members that decide to contribute directly to this site via donations. These donations help immensely in keeping this site up and running. Private forums are designed to allow the contributing member discuss whatever he/she wants to and to have the power to direct that discussion in whatever way he/she chose. They were not designed nor are they intended for simply talking trash about members that don't have access to the forum. While the targeted members cannot see the forum or the comments, it creates a negative atmosphere that really isn't necessary. If you want to totally rip apart ideas, ideologies, political parties, etc. that is fine. We simply ask that you don't use the private forums as a means to attack other members that aren't privy to such comments. It is difficult enough to have a political discussion forum because the discussion of politics is inherently heated as people are so passionate about their beliefs...the ones that take the time to come to such a site in the first place at least. The idea of private forums is so people of similar political persuasions can discuss whatever they want without fear of being attacked. Nonetheless, we hope that a certain level of maturity would foster itself within such an arena and not simply lend itself to a bashing forum.

Private Forums are governed by all of the above Forum rules. In addition:
  • Private forums that essentially become abandoned homes will be subject to deletion, donation or reorganization. Just like elsewhere in life, clubs sometimes lose their vitality and purpose for a myriad of reasons. If it becomes clear that a private forum has clearly lost its vitality and nobody is going to really use it anymore, owners are advised to consider whether to reuse the forum for something new and productive rather than let them linger or notify the Administration that the forum should be rearranged for other purposes, closed, merged with other compatible private forums, donated to others for new purposes, etc. Do not be concerned that your forum must be a membership and post count race with others to avoid falling under this policy; the question is whether your forum has actual vitality instead of being 'brain dead.'
  • Additionally, private forums may only be owned by subscribed members in the Platinum or Diamond categories.
  • Should the owner of a private forum be banned, quit USPOL or otherwise abandon the forum the PF will be transferred to another owner or closed.
  • Propriety of private forums. Administration staff will determine the desirability of a proposed private forum and enact any conditions upon it to ensure its purpose is productive.
  • Any and all instances of sharing accounts by allowing someone else to log in under their own account so they can see into private forums for which they are otherwise not permitted to access, will be deemed violation of the double account rule and all caught doing so will be permanently banned.
  • Relaying private forum posts and information to other posters who are not members of the particular private forum for any negative or destructive purpose (eg mean-spirited gossip, fueling interpersonal disputes, etc), is not permitted, and will constitute a violation of the Forum rules.
  • For purposes of monitoring USPOL Terms of Service Administrative staff (not Moderators) will have access to Private Forums.
  • All Private Forums must have at least one active Administrator as a member for purposes of handling issues which cannot be addressed through moderation permissions.
  • Discussion of moderation activities is prohibited on the open site and is likewise prohibited in Private Forums.

26. The administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit and/or delete a post,and/or close a thread, and/or delete a thread at any time if of the opinion that the post is too obscene, inappropriate, or the discussion has run its course.

27. 'Back seat moderating' is not allowed. If you take issue with another poster's contribution to the forum, you're welcome to report any posts you think are out of line, but you should not bring it up publicly within the forum.

28. Images in posts (whether embedded or hot linked) must be reasonable in size. 800x800 should be considered a good rule of thumb. Excessively large images make it difficult for users on mobile devices to load pages. If necessary please simply link to very large images using the URL tags. In addition, the following images are not permitted (including, but not limited to pages with images or videos containing):
  • Strategically covered nudity
  • Sheer or see-through clothing
  • Lewd or provocative poses
  • Close-ups of breasts, buttocks, or crotches

29. Any solicitation or communication involving sports betting / gambling / online casinos / bookies and or internet based card or slot machine systems or sites will lead to all said content being physically removed from the site and server, and will lead to any and or all parties involved being permanently removed and banned from the site to the farthest extent possible. This includes any links to any form of bookmaker, casino, any type of game or match or event where money transfers on the outcome or link of any sort to wire act violations and or anything in violation of either the Internet Gambling Regulation, Consumer Protection, and Enforcement Act, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, or the Federal wire Act. This applies not only to the open forum but all and or any chat rooms, articles, private messages and or private forums. All content that violates this rule will be deleted, without notice.

CONSEQUENCES

Failure to comply with any of the forum rules may result in your posts being edited or deleted and/or your account being temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. U.S. Politics Online uses a warning system that generates an automated Private Message to members when they are in violation of Forum rules. The decision to issue a warning is left to the discretion of the moderator or administrator handling the violation. If a member does not agree with an action taken by a moderator, they can appeal to an administrator after seeking clarification from the moderator who issued the warning/infraction and appealing to them in the first instance. Members MAY NOT harass a moderator or administrator by sending excessive PMs when they are discussing an appeal.

Violations are assigned a point value. Points are valid for 30 days. When a members earns 10 points, their account will be automatically suspended: five (5) days for a first suspension; ten (10) days for a second suspension; and twenty (20) days for a third suspension. If a member incurs an additional 10 points after having served three periods of suspension, then they will be permanently banned from the Forum.

Point values are as follows:
Zero (0) points Warning
Two (2) points - Minor infraction / Non post infraction (minor) / Off topic posts / spamming
Four (4) points - Academic dishonesty / Baiting / Discussing moderator or administrator actions / Implying an insult / Minor insults / Moderate infraction / Non-post infraction (moderate) / Thread dumping
Six (6) points - Direct insult at another member / major infraction / Non-post infraction (major)
Ten (10) points - Act of criminality, or advocating thereof

The administrators and moderators also bear the right to issue warnings, temporarily suspend or ban posters for continued trolling or other serious misconduct (eg. professional spamming) even if the poster has not yet reached the maximum warning points or suspensions level. Other options if the above consequences do not seem adequate include placing the member in a moderation queue, which means all posts will have to be approved before they are posted to the board.

PRIVACY POLICY

All information obtained by the end user via the registration process is for internal purposes only and will not be sold to or shared with any third parties. However, if the end user participates in illegal activities and a court of proper jurisdiction orders U.S. Politics Online to release certain information about said user then we will act according to the law. Furthermore, no information will be released on threat of a lawsuit, attempted or actual intimidation, or due to any other reason except as notated in the first sentence of this paragraph. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the information we do have is very limited and generally only consists of the IP address a member uses.

SUBSCRIPTIONS

U.S. Politics Online offers several subscription plans to help cover the operational costs of the site. As a thank you for your donation, you will receive special added benefits meant to enhance your U.S. Politics Online experience. Plans vary in price, starting at only $0.05/day, and benefits vary with the price. Benefits include ability to go straight to new posts, to search the forum, larger avatar, private forums, invisible mode, photo gallery, email, web hosting, and no advertisement banners. Please, click here for more details.
See more
See less

Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

    Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
    We stopped working as a united group, because the few's profits over ruled the interests of this nation. This was brought to us by the republicans in their belief that if its good for business profits, it is good for america. This brought a great change that has effected every aspect of american life.

    Where it used to be good to be nationalistic in certain ways that benefitted the nation, being nationalistic is no longer cool, because business cannot max out profits by being so. So, you have to drop the nationalism, economic nationalism in order to make it ok to enrich a communist state for greater corporate profits.

    The change in america has more than one cause, but the greatest cause is the change in mindset of the role of business. The role of business before 1980 was considered a part of america, one of her resources that makes her strong. After the republicans came back to power, the role of business was only to max out their profits, regardless of the effects upon the nation. And that change was a monumental one, that sets the stage for what you see today.

    I think the byword for this is more freedom, more liberty, and it was sold under that moniker.But the effects of this has been devastating upon america, while certain business interests are rolling in the dough from exploitive labor from the poor.

    It depends upon where a nation sets its priority. If the priority is to make a nation stronger, healthier, you will choose one path. If the priority is to allow business to max out profits by any means necessary, you set out on a different path. The republicans chose the latter path. And they ignore or accept the collateral damage.
    Good morning doggie! Reading your posts are getting to be more and more difficult when you spend your time knocking Republicans as the cause of our woes. I am a democrat, but I see your GOP fears as nonsense. There is not enough difference between the two parties to find where one stops and the other one starts.

    Now, if you want to talk about left wing nuts vs right wing nuts, we can see the difference. Fortunately for our country, though the election rhetoric tends to reflect the extremes, we tend to vote in mostly moderates who when compared to the opposition candidate does not differ much in the process.

    ?


    • #17
      Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

      Originally posted by dnsmith View Post
      Good morning doggie! Reading your posts are getting to be more and more difficult when you spend your time knocking Republicans as the cause of our woes. I am a democrat, but I see your GOP fears as nonsense. There is not enough difference between the two parties to find where one stops and the other one starts.

      Now, if you want to talk about left wing nuts vs right wing nuts, we can see the difference. Fortunately for our country, though the election rhetoric tends to reflect the extremes, we tend to vote in mostly moderates who when compared to the opposition candidate does not differ much in the process.
      Good day to you sir!! And of course you are correct in saying what you said about the dems and their role in this. But I think they joined later on, perhaps? I know they were not supportive of the first free trade agreements that led to off shoring to cheap labor in order to exploit other humans they could not exploit here in america. The repubs got NAFTA though congress and a dem, Clinton signed it. But if not for the repubs, clinton would not have had that chance.

      But one has to acknowledge the manner in which the repubs went about changing how america did business, surely? I think they called it demand side economics, which some folks called trickle down, and which was not used during the era that created history's largest middle class here in america. I don't think trickle down would have created such a large middle class. I say that because it has shrunk the middle since we have indulged in it.

      I can blame the repubs because they certainly got busy changing things. That later on some dems jumped on the bandwagon is certainly true. But non of these earlier trade agreements or deregulation of the financial sector originated from the democratic party. And the repubs coming back into power certainly led to the changes we have seen. So, I logically point the finger in their direction.

      I think the repubs were given the crack they needed to change the way we were doing things, by the energy crisis of the 70's and the resulting tripling of energy costs upon which our industrial based depended. We were based upon cheap energy to drive our industry, and once we saw a sudden increase in energy costs, panic ensued, and from panic, the stagflation which keyesian tactics proved ineffective, a crack was created in which the repubs took full advanatage of. They were able to get rid of the demand side economics as well as the older sort of trade agreements and this served to change america in deep ways. Never let a crisis go without taking advantage of it.

      I think at the bottom of all of this, is the cons never liked america's ecnonomic model. And once they came back, they got busy changing it back into something they liked. I think that has been a disaster. I think this path led us straight to the last crash, and where we are today with a real jobless rate of 14 per cent. And I think this is fairly obvious, and you will never hear a news story on it. We won't hear a news story on it because it would show not up just the repubs, but also the dems who have agreed to it as time went on. Both have dirty hands and don't want the public to know. So we never hear the obvious reasons mentioned by what used to be the 4th arm of gov't. They are nothing more than propaganda arms of each respective party. Nothing else would explain the deafening silence.

      ?


      • #18
        Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

        Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
        Good day to you sir!! And of course you are correct in saying what you said about the dems and their role in this. But I think they joined later on, perhaps? I know they were not supportive of the first free trade agreements that led to off shoring to cheap labor in order to exploit other humans they could not exploit here in america.
        Much to the chagrin of intelligent Democrats who realized that protectionism was bad for our own economy.
        The repubs got NAFTA though congress and a dem, Clinton signed it. But if not for the repubs, clinton would not have had that chance.
        The one case whereas the GOPers had a better idea.

        But one has to acknowledge the manner in which the repubs went about changing how america did business, surely? I think they called it demand side economics, which some folks called trickle down, and which was not used during the era that created history's largest middle class here in america. I don't think trickle down would have created such a large middle class. I say that because it has shrunk the middle since we have indulged in it.
        No doggie! It was called supply side economics, but yest it was also called trickle down economics. Neither of the two labels mean much except that true supply siders follow this principle, "Supply-side economics is a school of macroeconomic thought that argues that economic growth can be most effectively created by lowering barriers for people to produce (supply) goods and services, such as lowering income tax and capital gains tax rates, and by allowing greater flexibility by reducing regulation. According to supply-side economics, consumers will then benefit from a greater supply of goods and services at lower prices. Typical policy recommendations of supply-side economists are lower marginal tax rates and less regulation." In fact part of our economy has always been supply side in nature. As technology creates new products they are made and the people buy them. But remember that the other part of the economy is "demand side" which simply means that our economy prospers because there are demands for goods and services an it drives a part of our economy. Effectively this has always been the case whether certain political rhetoric wants to tell you one is good and one is bad. THEY ARE BOTH ESSENTIAL to a progressive economy.

        I can blame the repubs because they certainly got busy changing things. That later on some dems jumped on the bandwagon is certainly true. But non of these earlier trade agreements or deregulation of the financial sector originated from the democratic party. And the repubs coming back into power certainly led to the changes we have seen. So, I logically point the finger in their direction.
        Which is a waste of time because from time to time both parties have supported both open and closed economies.

        I think the repubs were given the crack they needed to change the way we were doing things, by the energy crisis of the 70's and the resulting tripling of energy costs upon which our industrial based depended. We were based upon cheap energy to drive our industry, and once we saw a sudden increase in energy costs, panic ensued, and from panic, the stagflation which keyesian tactics proved ineffective, a crack was created in which the repubs took full advanatage of. They were able to get rid of the demand side economics as well as the older sort of trade agreements and this served to change america in deep ways. Never let a crisis go without taking advantage of it.
        You are making assertions which are part true and part untrue and that part of economics is way over your head. (Likely mine too)

        I think at the bottom of all of this, is the cons never liked america's ecnonomic model. And once they came back, they got busy changing it back into something they liked. I think that has been a disaster. I think this path led us straight to the last crash, and where we are today with a real jobless rate of 14 per cent. And I think this is fairly obvious, and you will never hear a news story on it. We won't hear a news story on it because it would show not up just the repubs, but also the dems who have agreed to it as time went on. Both have dirty hands and don't want the public to know. So we never hear the obvious reasons mentioned by what used to be the 4th arm of gov't. They are nothing more than propaganda arms of each respective party. Nothing else would explain the deafening silence.
        OK, we talked about supply side, demand side, open or closed economies a little and still there is no reason to point fingers at either political party as both were equally involved the entire time.

        But we did not discuss trickle down economics. ""Trickle-down economics" and "the trickle-down theory" are terms in United States politics to refer to the idea that tax breaks or other economic benefits provided by government to businesses and the wealthy will benefit poorer members of society by improving the economy as a whole."

        Effectively to understand trickle down economics one must understand "tax incidence," which is the name given to the study of who actually pays the taxes levied on our businesses and corporations. Some of all corporate taxes are passed on to the consumer, that amount of tax being what can be reasonably calculated in advance and up to the point at which the consumer will not buy the product because it is too expensive. Some of all corporate taxes are passed on to labor in the form of imputed reduction of wages or the termination of workers the business cannot afford. Some of the corporate taxes are paid by the corporation (capital), but there are a lot of ifs ands and buts involved and those variables are called "elasticities of price."

        If the price of supply is elastic the taxes tend to be paid for by the consumer.

        If the price of demand is non-elastic consumers almost always pay the corporate taxes.

        If the price of demand is elastic capital tends to pay the tax. BUT, capital tends to try to push all or part of what it tends to pay off onto labor. This is what is going on when corporations out source their labor.

        If the price of demand is elastic and capital is mobile labor almost always pays the price of corporate tax. It is this latter situation in which capital goes over seas to a less hostile tax climate.

        It all comes down to the bottom line which is what the purpose of capital happens to be. Business is not in it for societal needs.

        So when you use economics to determine for whom you will vote, look at their history as to what they will do relative to corporate taxation and you will tend to vote for what is best for the American people. We democrats tend to be more politically altruistic on the surface. But when we try to tax business above a certain point we effectively have shot ourselves in the foot because we see a lowering of revenue with which to help those in need.

        ?


        • #19
          Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

          So business has no social responsibility? And who wrote that book?

          I say that business is not separate from society. I say that when we start treating business like a part of society, and demand that they do their part, things will be a helluva lot better on this old earth.

          The free trade you talk about can happen with or without exploitive labor. Free trade was used to exploit labor for greater profits. When globalization is nothing more than seeking to exploit labor, it becomes just another way in which to send most of the wealth upwards. But you don't see it, you don't get it. That is obvious.

          Sir, there may be sacred things in this world, but I can assure you business is not one of them. Henceforth it does not deserve what has been given it.

          ?


          • #20
            Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

            Back to topic. You know china is early in their space goals. What the US knows how to do is to land large payloads on planets, or moons. It took a lot of treasure and work to get to where we are. And since our last mars rover will land next month, and with NASA's budget being reduced to 1/2 of one per cent of the budget, we are not gonna launch anymore explorations of the surface of other objects. NASA is basically dead, just a ghost existing now, which brings me to the point I want to make on china.

            Since china now has aspirations, but not the experience or techhology, why don't we do like the american corporations did in order to get that cheap labor, and simply give this communist state the things they need to leap ahead in their own space quests? We have enabled them at the expense to the american worker, so let's help em out even more by just giving them america's space tech and skill sets? Let us not break the trend that we are on!

            That may happen soon enough if those private corporations that have made our own space technology move everything to china, to exploit those communist cooleys. That already may be happening. Our corporations love that exploitive labor so much they will give away anything to get it. Seems like to me that makes business a clear and present enemy of the united states of america, if we use our previous feelings towards communist states. In such that multinational corporations are virtual States, these states would be enemies, and the sort we are good at defeating. The only trouble lies in the fact that these virtual states have infiltrated the united states gov't, as people thought the communists had done during the McCarthy era. And they are doing much better than the old communists could ever dream of doing. Unlike the communists of the cold war, they could not steal technology in such a large scale manner as the multinationals have given it away in order to get that exploitive labor. The things that used to define an enemy has certainly been changed.

            ?


            • #21
              Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              Back to topic. You know china is early in their space goals. What the US knows how to do is to land large payloads on planets, or moons. It took a lot of treasure and work to get to where we are. And since our last mars rover will land next month, and with NASA's budget being reduced to 1/2 of one per cent of the budget, we are not gonna launch anymore explorations of the surface of other objects. NASA is basically dead, just a ghost existing now, which brings me to the point I want to make on china.

              Since china now has aspirations, but not the experience or techhology, why don't we do like the american corporations did in order to get that cheap labor, and simply give this communist state the things they need to leap ahead in their own space quests? We have enabled them at the expense to the american worker, so let's help em out even more by just giving them america's space tech and skill sets? Let us not break the trend that we are on!

              That may happen soon enough if those private corporations that have made our own space technology move everything to china, to exploit those communist cooleys. That already may be happening. Our corporations love that exploitive labor so much they will give away anything to get it. Seems like to me that makes business a clear and present enemy of the united states of america, if we use our previous feelings towards communist states. In such that multinational corporations are virtual States, these states would be enemies, and the sort we are good at defeating. The only trouble lies in the fact that these virtual states have infiltrated the united states gov't, as people thought the communists had done during the McCarthy era. And they are doing much better than the old communists could ever dream of doing. Unlike the communists of the cold war, they could not steal technology in such a large scale manner as the multinationals have given it away in order to get that exploitive labor. The things that used to define an enemy has certainly been changed.
              Doggie, your attempting to blame business for our woes was wrong yesterday, is wrong today and will be wrong tomorrow as well. You need to stop beating that dead donkey.

              ?


              • #22
                Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                Originally posted by dnsmith View Post
                Doggie, your attempting to blame business for our woes was wrong yesterday, is wrong today and will be wrong tomorrow as well. You need to stop beating that dead donkey.
                I know, I know. I should be blaming the american people who cannot work for less than a buck an hour, making our widgets. But I am old, and my brain farts at times. I am sure you can understand?

                I also have this very odd idea that human nature effects the way business is conducted. That what man is, and what he has always been actually has an influence upon his actions in this world. I am just a silly old man, sir. And you have my apology.

                ?


                • #23
                  Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                  Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                  I know, I know. I should be blaming the american people who cannot work for less than a buck an hour, making our widgets. But I am old, and my brain farts at times. I am sure you can understand?
                  That is baloney too. The fact is, a business which is not competitive will go bankrupt, which hurts even more American workers.

                  I also have this very odd idea that human nature effects the way business is conducted. That what man is, and what he has always been actually has an influence upon his actions in this world. I am just a silly old man, sir. And you have my apology.[/QUOTE]Apology, smology, consumers will buy the best product they can for the lowest price available. We live in a very small world and we would bankrupt our entire economy if we tried to be an economic island and practice protectionism. There are many goods and services our economy cannot produce, period. There are many other goods and services our economy cannot produce competitively. If we want this great country to succeed economically we MUST accept roughly determined free markets. There will always be a little room to play with, but if we chose to do it alone it will be India and China in 50 years who will be the super economy and it will be the US relegated to 3rd world status.

                  ?


                  • #24
                    Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                    Originally posted by dnsmith View Post
                    That is baloney too. The fact is, a business which is not competitive will go bankrupt, which hurts even more American workers.
                    How much more can we hurt the American worker.
                    But I will attest that MNCs no longer want to contribute to the US infrastructure because they really aren't interested anymore in the US.
                    They are waiting and waiting and waiting for their new found continent of low wage labor to pick up the slack and their spreadsheets can show them the disappointing numbers but can't actually talk to them and tell them why they're wrong.
                    And the US is obviously not alone in this illusionary pursuit.

                    ?


                    • #25
                      Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                      Originally posted by USCitizen View Post
                      How much more can we hurt the American worker.
                      A whole lot as most American workers are retraining to perform service rather than manufacturing jobs.
                      But I will attest that MNCs no longer want to contribute to the US infrastructure because they really aren't interested anymore in the US.
                      If the MNC is basically a US company owned by US tax payers they are very interested in the US.
                      They are waiting and waiting and waiting for their new found continent of low wage labor to pick up the slack and their spreadsheets can show them the disappointing numbers but can't actually talk to them and tell them why they're wrong.
                      And the US is obviously not alone in this illusionary pursuit.
                      You are sounding more and more bitter and you do have solutions if you choose to use them.

                      ?


                      • #26
                        Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                        Originally posted by dnsmith View Post
                        A whole lot as most American workers are retraining to perform service rather than manufacturing jobs.If the MNC is basically a US company owned by US tax payers they are very interested in the US.You are sounding more and more bitter and you do have solutions if you choose to use them.
                        I'm just paraphrasing the mentality of MNCs from what I read in the WSJ and Fortune, the Economist, Money and all of the other Financial publications my son and I read.
                        As well as the Asian Financial Network.

                        These publications don't lie like FN and CTR about how Americans CAN make it if they only WORK MORE HARDER!
                        Nope. They're brutally honest about the fact that until the US reaches the depths of Asia and Mexico, investors are simply not interested.

                        You DO read SOME of these, don't you?

                        ?


                        • #27
                          Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                          So business has no social responsibility? And who wrote that book?
                          You misunderstand completely. I said, the PURPOSE of business is to make a profit. That has nothing to do with social responsibility. Most businesses are socially responsible, and sometimes the more socially responsible act is to go to cheaper labor or go out of business causing more than just the people who lost their jobs to lose money.

                          I say that business is not separate from society.
                          Of course they are not separate from society.
                          I say that when we start treating business like a part of society, and demand that they do their part, things will be a helluva lot better on this old earth.
                          Your demands may cause even more people to lose their jobs than were laid off for cheaper labor.That is not a rational expectation.

                          The free trade you talk about can happen with or without exploitive labor. Free trade was used to exploit labor for greater profits. When globalization is nothing more than seeking to exploit labor, it becomes just another way in which to send most of the wealth upwards. But you don't see it, you don't get it. That is obvious.
                          It is obvious only to someone with myopia. You obviously are not interested in business, people getting jobs, making money et al. You would demand that business follow guidelines which would bankrupt them.

                          Sir, there may be sacred things in this world, but I can assure you business is not one of them. Henceforth it does not deserve what has been given it.
                          In fact capital and employment is one of the most important things there is or can be in this world. It is what feeds you and everyone else. Idealism will feed no one.

                          ?


                          • #28
                            Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                            dns,
                            Name me ONE of the Fortune 500 that would have to fire even ONE person to stay in business.

                            ?


                            • #29
                              Re: Chinas ambitious plans in the Space

                              Originally posted by dnsmith View Post
                              You misunderstand completely. I said, the PURPOSE of business is to make a profit. That has nothing to do with social responsibility. Most businesses are socially responsible, and sometimes the more socially responsible act is to go to cheaper labor or go out of business causing more than just the people who lost their jobs to lose money.Of course they are not separate from society.Your demands may cause even more people to lose their jobs than were laid off for cheaper labor.That is not a rational expectation.It is obvious only to someone with myopia. You obviously are not interested in business, people getting jobs, making money et al. You would demand that business follow guidelines which would bankrupt them.In fact capital and employment is one of the most important things there is or can be in this world. It is what feeds you and everyone else. Idealism will feed no one.
                              I am not interested in people making money by exploiting people for cheap labor. You seem to have no problem with that.

                              I remember when we did not exploit labor. It created history's largest consumer market and middle class. We did that by doing exactly opposite of your beliefs. Imagine that!!

                              Therefore I have to dismiss you as thinking too much. And a vain attempt at turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

                              ?

                              Working...
                              X