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Quantum Drives

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  • #16
    The emDrive just might actually work According to a NASA fresearch lab.

    http://io9.com/new-test-suggests-nas...ork-1701188933

    There have been some additional wild speculations attached to recent research but if progress continues and this actually works our children and grandchildren may be making the great leap. The question "does life exsist off earth"? Will be silly becasue it willbe there and it will be us.

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    • #17
      The problem lies in the fact that the engine not set up to deliver thrust, also delivered thrust. And of course this is what physicists are pointing out, since if it did work, it would violate the principles, the laws of known physics. But personally, I want it to work, for I want physics turned on its head. I want those guys to be put in their place, so they have to admit that the physics is wrong, and they need to go back to the drawing board and find the truth of the matter.

      If the thrust is an artifact, that should be easily discovered. But the fact that NASA thinks its genuine, does mean something. But any time something breaks the known laws, it is questionable, highly questionable. But I remember in the 60s when I was in school, the biology teacher telling us that it should be impossible for a bumble bee to fly, for it breaks some law of physics, yet it doesn't pay attention to that law and flies anyway. I wonder if we ever worked this out, or if it is still impossible? LOL

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      • #18
        If it works like it seems to it works on some very basic bits of quantum mechanics. It doesn't undo physics it refines physics. The sun isn't big enough to burn like it does in a universe bound by centuries old physics knowledge but quantuum effects and more modern scientific knowledge explain it just fine.

        Bumble bee flight breaking the laws of physics was always a pop-meme. The bees weren't violating physics the experts just weren't looking at how bumble bees flew well enough.

        On bumble bee flight

        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bumblebee_argument
        http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...blebees-to-fly
        Last edited by JDJarvis; 05-03-2015, 09:13 AM.

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        • #19
          I guess my biology teacher was indulging in that in the 60s. I never cared about it and never followed up.

          Well, in refining physics, it defies....

          The concept has been roundly criticized for appearing to violate the law of conservation of momentum
          http://space.io9.com/a-new-thruster-...81/+rtgonzalez

          Which is why the physicist always maintained it was impossible, for this engine has been around for quite sometime before NASA got one constructed.

          Of course if it does work, it does violate the Newtonian physics law. To date, nothing discovered at the quantum level has changed newtonion physics which works just fine at the macro level, just not at the quantum level. Right? And the conservation of momentum is a really big deal, its validity.

          Can you imagine the uproar in physics if this engine is disobeying that law? It's liable to drive some to insanity. LOL For this is equal to, gravity suddenly stopping to work. It really is. You drop a ball and it floats. Or you can have an action, with no opposite reaction, and that is just how huge this is. And this is the reason physicist never gave the Cannae engine any creds, even when its inventor said it worked. They would never even consider it working, for it broke the laws. Can't blame them for that.
          Last edited by Blue Doggy; 05-03-2015, 10:12 AM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
            Can you imagine the uproar in physics if this engine is disobeying that law? It's liable to drive some to insanity. LOL For this is equal to, gravity suddenly stopping to work. It really is. You drop a ball and it floats. Or you can have an action, with no opposite reaction, and that is just how huge this is. And this is the reason physicist never gave the Cannae engine any creds, even when its inventor said it worked. They would never even consider it working, for it broke the laws. Can't blame them for that.
            An uproar if it really works? It will become several folks careers. as new evidence is presented science accepts the proveable. Just as no serious scientist ever really said bumble bees can't fly (as bees do indeed fly) no serious scientist will ever say a functional emDrive can't work.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              Can you imagine the uproar in physics if this engine is disobeying that law? It's liable to drive some to insanity. LOL For this is equal to, gravity suddenly stopping to work. It really is. You drop a ball and it floats. Or you can have an action, with no opposite reaction, and that is just how huge this is. And this is the reason physicist never gave the Cannae engine any creds, even when its inventor said it worked. They would never even consider it working, for it broke the laws. Can't blame them for that.
              It doesn't break laws, it simply reveals intricacies in the law that we did know existed.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post

                An uproar if it really works? It will become several folks careers. as new evidence is presented science accepts the proveable. Just as no serious scientist ever really said bumble bees can't fly (as bees do indeed fly) no serious scientist will ever say a functional emDrive can't work.
                Certainly, for an accepted law of classical physics will have been falsified. There was quite the uproar when the early founders of quantum mechanics revealed their discoveries and theories. There is plenty of literature that has been written about this. And even Einstein caused quite the stir with his brand new way of looking at reality, and was trashed by academia until the evidence could not be falsified. But of course, after the uproar, it will be accepted, as other tentative ideas had to be accepted, and science is the better for it.

                I am afraid a serious scientist did state it was theoretically impossible for bumble bees to fly, as I looked that up, but the guy was drunk when he said it, and recanted. But it was picked up, his original assertion, and even my college educated biology teacher in the 60s didn't know the facts. And of course kids seldom question their teachers. And I would imagine quite a few of my generation still have the wrong belief about that.

                You want to know what many scientists will not accept today, even with decades of evidence to the contrary? The ability of the human mind to affect things outside it. So, evidence, unquestionable evidence of some things, will not be accepted, until those naysayers die out. Science, being also political, sometimes in some areas move ahead at the pace of tombstones.

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                • #23
                  It doesn't falsify classical physics it revises and innovates physics with new information. Criticism of a new discovery is normal and expected but as evidence and experiment increases to revise and reveal what is going on that critcism evaporates.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                    It doesn't falsify classical physics it revises and innovates physics with new information. Criticism of a new discovery is normal and expected but as evidence and experiment increases to revise and reveal what is going on that critcism evaporates.
                    What? The law that the physicist are using to say such an engine is impossible, would be turned on its head. And anything that does that is HUGE. Are you actually understanding what is going on here? Or is it I who do not understand it? These other methods of producing energy has been an interest of mine for years, and I have known about the Cannae engine for years. The man who invented it could never get academia interested, for it broke a natural law, so why bother? SO, it was simply impossible for this engine to work, and so they would never even consider it. Why would they not consider it? Because it broke a well accepted natural law. They called the inventor a nutcase, for we all know you cannot negate a natural law. We depend heavily upon them. Physics is created with those laws being the firm foundation of physics. And that law is key to Newtonian physics.

                    But of course, if it does indeed produce energy, this will cause one helluva stir in the physics community, and they will have to come up with a way, as they did with introducing dark matter and dark energy into the equation, to keep their views coherent. This is a really big deal, if true. And that is all that I am saying.

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                    • #25
                      Didn't imply it wasn't a big deal for a second, it is, more-so if results are reporducible and new larger scae experiments work out. The whole "no one woud consider it" line of discussion is meaningless as we are discussinng the publicized reults of people who did consider it....

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                        Didn't imply it wasn't a big deal for a second, it is, more-so if results are reporducible and new larger scae experiments work out. The whole "no one woud consider it" line of discussion is meaningless as we are discussinng the publicized reults of people who did consider it....
                        Yes, I agree, it is meaningless now, but for years academia would not even look at it, for it was just impossible. And impossible according to the accepted science. If NASA had not looked t it, it would have never been looked at by a reputable institution. For it defies a natural law, at least our current understanding of it.

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