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Civil Wrongs

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  • Fact is our economy is "flattening out" to meet the levels of most of the rest of the world. Time was one person working in a good job was all it took to maintain a household and raise a family in this country and that just isn't true anymore. Typical incomes do not meet typical demands. We're supposed to be saving? Saving, saving for what with what? One thing breaks...boom there goes the savings.

    Taxation itself isn't the issue, taxation that doesn't directly serve the majority is. I don't mind people that are having bad luck or are just plain dumb are kept alive with tax money, I don't mind educating their kids (one of the little cretins might turn out to be the next Edison, Shakespeare, or Einstein), I do mind cities and states reducing taxes and effectively paying big business to set up shop when those companies have no loyalty to the area or their workforce, I do mind paying for a half-assed war on terror that is very expensive and will never be won, I do hate a penal system that throws too many Americans in jail (land of the free my left butt cheek).

    Our tax money should be spent to fix and maintain the roads and public utilities, educate the kids to a common standard (or makes sure we have the funds to do so), keep the fire and police companies working and up to date, make sure the courts are functional and efficient, aid the least of us and help the unlucky,and have an army that defends us against those who wish to die by acting against us, and control the borders (and immigration).

    When did paying for health insurance become "health care"?

    If the country want's to see wages rise we'll force the politicians to enforce immigration law and start an active policy of policing and punishing those that violate it. A flow of illegal aliens keeps wages low and reduces job access for citizens and legal residents. If the left truly cared about the plight of the working (or non-working) poor they'd back off the insane immigration policies that are undermining American workers at the profit of business. People who have an okay job with a decent wage are seldom a problem if they can meet their needs by the fruit of their labor.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
      Fact is our economy is "flattening out" to meet the levels of most of the rest of the world. Time was one person working in a good job was all it took to maintain a household and raise a family in this country and that just isn't true anymore. Typical incomes do not meet typical demands. We're supposed to be saving? Saving, saving for what with what? One thing breaks...boom there goes the savings.

      Taxation itself isn't the issue, taxation that doesn't directly serve the majority is. I don't mind people that are having bad luck or are just plain dumb are kept alive with tax money, I don't mind educating their kids (one of the little cretins might turn out to be the next Edison, Shakespeare, or Einstein), I do mind cities and states reducing taxes and effectively paying big business to set up shop when those companies have no loyalty to the area or their workforce, I do mind paying for a half-assed war on terror that is very expensive and will never be won, I do hate a penal system that throws too many Americans in jail (land of the free my left butt cheek).

      Our tax money should be spent to fix and maintain the roads and public utilities, educate the kids to a common standard (or makes sure we have the funds to do so), keep the fire and police companies working and up to date, make sure the courts are functional and efficient, aid the least of us and help the unlucky,and have an army that defends us against those who wish to die by acting against us, and control the borders (and immigration).

      When did paying for health insurance become "health care"?

      If the country want's to see wages rise we'll force the politicians to enforce immigration law and start an active policy of policing and punishing those that violate it. A flow of illegal aliens keeps wages low and reduces job access for citizens and legal residents. If the left truly cared about the plight of the working (or non-working) poor they'd back off the insane immigration policies that are undermining American workers at the profit of business. People who have an okay job with a decent wage are seldom a problem if they can meet their needs by the fruit of their labor.
      They all only care about their next election and those who contribute to that. That includes labor union leaders. They are all for this inflow if illegals as they can recruit them and keep their jobs.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

        They all only care about their next election and those who contribute to that. That includes labor union leaders. They are all for this inflow if illegals as they can recruit them and keep their jobs.
        I can see why unions, what is left of them, would be for amnesty. For these people who work on the cheap now, and depress wages in sectors like construction, if they became legal workers, the unions could grow because of them. And I can see why the politicians who want cheap labor for the national chamber of commerce do not want to give amnesty, for they lose their cheap labor, but only if the flow of illegals could then be stopped. Of course, I am pro union, as long as they were responsible and reasonable. The irresponsible unions have given unions a bad name. Like any organization that take in a lot of money, the corrupting affect of money can ruin a union, and it has in some cases. And it happens when the people in the union lose their power within the union and some jackwagon who sits at a desk takes over. I went to school with a guy that was the head man in a local union here, which no longer exists. He worked at the factory, and so this union was run by its members, with the head of it being a worker in the factory.. That is the way it should be, and as soon as you get away from that, the corruption begins.

        If we are only going to have a service sector economy, either all of the service sector needs to be unionized, so living wages are paid, or there needs to be a federal minimum wage that is a living wage and it has to be tied in with inflation, which includes the inflation seen in food prices and energy costs. Given the difference in cost of living between MS. an N.Y. there would have to be a way to adjust it for each part of the country. Which given modern technology and computers, could be achieved easily today where it would have been very difficult in the past.

        So, if we are going to continue on with free trade globalization, something along these lines will have to be done, to keep American society from coming apart, which is very costly and would require a national debt that explodes into perpetuity. Fiscal responsibility would never be possible because of free trade globalization and we are seeing what it has already done to national debt. If the GOP gets power, and they just cut spending, as they lowered taxes, this would amount to addressing the growth in debt by literally starving out your own non elites. We know from history what that always brings with it. So, while these cons might dream of this, as a way to address the debt, it would be better for them if they just put a gun to the head and ended their lives quick, instead of dying a slower more painful death at the hands of the dirty rabble. For there would not be enough police to protect them, as we as a society regressed to the mentality of the French Revolution. Instead of sewing stars on the shirts of cons like the Nazis did the jews, the cons would have elephants on their shirts. Ok. a bit of hyperbole, but the principle behind it is reasonable to expect.

        All I know for certain is one thing. The current economic paradigm, that saw its birth in the 70s, and became a crazy teenager in the 80s, and grew into adulthood since then, is not sustainable, and that should be obvious if one pays attention to what it has created, with nothing in sight to make it better for americans. It literally is impossible for it to get better, for it is structure to only get worse. And that is not even considering what advancing robotics will do to the ability of average intelligence people being able to survive by work. The conservatives have their heads shoved deeply into the sands, and it reminds me of the man who is dying, but just goes into the denial state, and stays there. Not thinking about it, will not change what is going to happen, whether its our economic model, or the life of the man dying.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

          You seem to live in a world of what should be and not what is. It's not just people with higher incomes who are not allowed to access these grants and loans. It's good old lower and middle class people. If you make anything above poverty level, you are cut out of these government programs. And, it's these government programs that encourage the cost of an indoctrination to continually escalate.
          You ignored my call for the gov't. (state and federal) to audit the public university "to ensure reasonable cost and quality". That would include any required corn-holing of a given university's argument that their bloated athletic program is "making extra money" for the university; bloat in academic administration, bloat in famous perfessers salaries, etc. etc.

          Simply throwing out more scholarships, grants and loans without controlling the university itself, is asking for an inflation rate way above that of the general economy.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • Originally posted by msc View Post

            Again I appreciate the advice. Those are the things that she will be looking into after the first year. She's already planning on getting a campus job this year for spending money. It's quite nerve racking to leave her college education up to possibilities that may or may not happen. Fact is that it is possible that she may only be there for 1 year. Unless I take drastic measures which will get her through college, but leave us in financial ruins. I will take one of those options if necessary.
            ....

            We can't work any more or any harder than we already are, and there is nothing left to cut back on, yet it's not working. So our gov't does offer another way to have my child go to college. I would sacrifice myself, my future, my pride, and my reputation and become one of the indigent for her. The problem is that it's not just me. I have an 81 year old mother that lives with us, and my other 2 daughters that can not afford to live independently yet.

            The reason why I'm sharing all of this is because we often talk in the hypothetical and speak of ideology, theory, and opinion. What I'm introducing is a real life situation that is a result of the way our country IS running. If you've come to trust my honesty, you'll think about this situation and the november election and what our gov't could do to resolve this issue for me and other hard working Americans in this situation, without encouraging us to become one of the poor to secure a better future for our children. Though this is my experience which is not the experiences of everyone, it is a real situation that many hard working Americans are facing. Americans that have done the right thing worked hard, took nothing from anyone always paying their own way. And this faction like myself exists. We are caught between the rich and the poor, where nothing is free for us, yet we are forced to pay to give opportunity to, and better the future for strangers while depriving our own children of the very luxuries we are forced to pay for, for others.

            I'm not exactly seeing how free education would help our situation. First Bernie was the one offering it. Not Hillary. She wants to make it more affordable, but was clear that it would not be free for everyone. Additionally, what exactly is Hillary's proposal? Is it just for 2 years, like a free community college, that offers limited programs? And again, how would it be determined who gets it free or just lower cost? What is lower cost?

            My support of conservative plans is because I would be able to afford college for my child on my own dime if we didn't have to pay such astronomical health insurance premiums with copays, and if my taxes were not as high. I want to send my child to a college that is best for her with good teachers and facilities, on my own dime, not for my child to go to designated colleges with no competition for excellence. Not a college like public schools that will not lose students if they are not producing.

            I have a pretty good work ethic and have worked two jobs for most of my life. I am confident that if the gov't stopped dipping their hands into my bank account and redistributing my money, my family will get greater benefits than if the gov't makes the choice of what benefit I can get from the gov't with my contributed funds. With these redistributions, the benefits never seem to be distributed my way.
            You don't see how "free" education would help your situation? Supposing you were paying my proposed $105 per semester for books/fees and tuition. Your child would be educated at low cost to your family, just like every other child who qualifies for a higher education based on academic qualifications. BTW, I don't agree with "free", since what is not bought nor bartered has less value. The $105 cost per semester also cuts down on capricious (impulsive) behavior, like enrolling in classes, then not attending. I doubt your daughter would be one of these, by your description, but the earnest fee should keep her fellow students more honest.

            This might seem too personal, but I wonder if many other parents are in your condition, both in the financial and personal burden sense. You seem loathe to ask your daughter to slow her university education by working more (thus taking fewer classes). This is confusing to me, unless her aptitude is for a field that is under constant pressure with changing technology. Electrical or chemical engineering? Unless recruiters and instructors alike are pushing the students to get in, get the degree and the job within 4-1/2 years, because of that pressure, she can pull some of her own weight. It will also build her resume, and help out her family. I did it; even though my mother offered to help me with no interest loans, I declined. It was more important for her to have the extra money to travel in retirement (about 4 years after I left home), then for me to get in and out within 4 years. Either I didn't listen or didn't care when others told me I had to get thru quickly, and I knew it wasn't a Big Time career guaranteed even if I did push myself.

            I worked and went to school part time after I blew threw the war chest I saved up in high school (about 2 years university, full time). Worked out fine, better than I expected, actually. Have you talked with her about the "slow track" option?

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
              You don't see how "free" education would help your situation? Supposing you were paying my proposed $105 per semester for books/fees and tuition. Your child would be educated at low cost to your family, just like every other child who qualifies for a higher education based on academic qualifications. BTW, I don't agree with "free", since what is not bought nor bartered has less value. The $105 cost per semester also cuts down on capricious (impulsive) behavior, like enrolling in classes, then not attending. I doubt your daughter would be one of these, by your description, but the earnest fee should keep her fellow students more honest.

              This might seem too personal, but I wonder if many other parents are in your condition, both in the financial and personal burden sense. You seem loathe to ask your daughter to slow her university education by working more (thus taking fewer classes). This is confusing to me, unless her aptitude is for a field that is under constant pressure with changing technology. Electrical or chemical engineering? Unless recruiters and instructors alike are pushing the students to get in, get the degree and the job within 4-1/2 years, because of that pressure, she can pull some of her own weight. It will also build her resume, and help out her family. I did it; even though my mother offered to help me with no interest loans, I declined. It was more important for her to have the extra money to travel in retirement (about 4 years after I left home), then for me to get in and out within 4 years. Either I didn't listen or didn't care when others told me I had to get thru quickly, and I knew it wasn't a Big Time career guaranteed even if I did push myself.

              I worked and went to school part time after I blew threw the war chest I saved up in high school (about 2 years university, full time). Worked out fine, better than I expected, actually. Have you talked with her about the "slow track" option?
              The biggest problem with our secondary education system is that it requires so much crap unrelated to the education a person needs to get a job. This whole "well rounded" student meme is just a ploy to make more money for the institutions. My daughter took so many classed that were totally unrelated to graphic design, her major, just because they were part of the required curriculum and kept professors employed. Colleges have made it impossible for many to get training in what they want to do without going into some huge hole of debt.

              My advice would be to ask your daughter what she really wants to do for the rest of her life and look at alternatives for that kind of education. Many corporations today are giving a college degree less importance and giving actual training and experience more importance.

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              • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                You don't see how "free" education would help your situation? Supposing you were paying my proposed $105 per semester for books/fees and tuition. Your child would be educated at low cost to your family, just like every other child who qualifies for a higher education based on academic qualifications. BTW, I don't agree with "free", since what is not bought nor bartered has less value. The $105 cost per semester also cuts down on capricious (impulsive) behavior, like enrolling in classes, then not attending. I doubt your daughter would be one of these, by your description, but the earnest fee should keep her fellow students more honest.

                This might seem too personal, but I wonder if many other parents are in your condition, both in the financial and personal burden sense. You seem loathe to ask your daughter to slow her university education by working more (thus taking fewer classes). This is confusing to me, unless her aptitude is for a field that is under constant pressure with changing technology. Electrical or chemical engineering? Unless recruiters and instructors alike are pushing the students to get in, get the degree and the job within 4-1/2 years, because of that pressure, she can pull some of her own weight. It will also build her resume, and help out her family. I did it; even though my mother offered to help me with no interest loans, I declined. It was more important for her to have the extra money to travel in retirement (about 4 years after I left home), then for me to get in and out within 4 years. Either I didn't listen or didn't care when others told me I had to get thru quickly, and I knew it wasn't a Big Time career guaranteed even if I did push myself.

                I worked and went to school part time after I blew threw the war chest I saved up in high school (about 2 years university, full time). Worked out fine, better than I expected, actually. Have you talked with her about the "slow track" option?
                It's fine that you asked. Aside my closest of friends and family, I would not share this information, I've spent 2 years speaking with you here, almost every day, which is more than I talk to most people outside my family, and have established my stance, I consider you friends yet anonymous friends. If I believe I'm being disrespected for my situation I can simply shut my laptop. I've shared some before as we all have, however, as there is a threat of Democrats setting policy that would make my life harder with higher taxes and higher medical insurance premiums, etc., I believe it would make for a better debate, if you understand where my passion comes from that has formed my ideology.

                To respond to your post:

                My eldest worked full time while at community college taking 31/2 years to get her associates. Then she got loans. She'll have to start paying off $55K once she graduates in January with her masters. She was 16 when we ran into trouble and sacrificed less during childhood, than my youngest.

                I'm sure if I suggested a community college part time, she would be upset, but would result in disappointment yet understanding. I did not suggest it. This kid has been on her own with responsibility since she was 12 years old, when we became a 2 parent working household and were both gone before she woke up. She has successfully been responsible to get herself up in the morning and be prompt and prepared to catch the bus, because she had no backup if she failed. No family vacations. Parents missing concerts. She had hand me downs for 5 of our struggling years. She looked out for her grandma because everything went south right after he grandfather died leaving grandma alone and sad. The one thing we insisted on was her succeeding in school. In high school our mantra was, "If you want to get accepted to a good college you have to do well in high school. She struggled through AP courses. She was not a great student with all of her grades, but good enough to get an advanced regents diploma with passing trigonometry by the skin of her teeth. My children were never privileged, nor was I growing up, but they did receive a decent middle class childhood until our fall. Less than middle class in our neighborhood, but sufficient to our standards. The first Christmas we could not give, she, 11 years old, receive a shirt for Christmas. And this child smiled, thanked us, kept smiling, and happily enjoyed the Christmas day. She never complained. At 17 when all of her friends were buying class rings, she never mentioned it to us. It was after the deadline when I asked about it. She said that it wasn't a necessity and she knew I'd work overtime to get it for her. And if we couldn't afford it she didn't want me to feel bad. At 14 years old instead of feeling sorry for herself, she was sitting at the table with me and said: "I'm glad that we lost all of our money." In shock I asked why. She responded, "because if we hadn't, I don't think I'd be the person I am today. I'd probably be like one of my spoiled friends." Her childhood might not seem like hardship compared to some others, but being a child until 10 years of age in a hard working middle class family receiving basics and some luxuries. Not as much as many friends, but enough to be comfortable, then going to having no luxuries and little necessities, she has risen to the occasion as I expect many children in her situation would not have.

                I tell you this personal information for you to understand why there is no way in hell I'm going to disappoint this kid. She deserves to go to a college that offers what she needs to become successful in her chosen career. Majoring in English and Creative writing, minoring in film for screen writing. She gained this passion from spending many unattended evenings reading books. One Christmas all she asked for from us and family was books.

                My kids are my world and their success and happiness is my future. Not doing everything in my power to help my children prosper, to keep me out of a financial hole will guarantee me unhappiness. My children would not make me trade my financial comfort for them, if they truly knew what was at risk. On the flip side, I would not take what I need above my children, because I know their future is at risk. If 3 out of the 5 of us can only prosper, then the 3 have to be my children, instead of sharing and spreading out our money and limiting all 5 of us.

                My daughter not going to this college is not an option. Now whether my future is of poverty or comfort, will depend on our hard work, and discontinuation of the current gov't laws and policies, or not.

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                • Forgive me MSC for butting in here, but just wanted to tell you that you are a GOOD MAN sir. Even as impersonal as a forum is, and even if you and I see some things a bit differently, I have the greatest respect for you as a person. I know so many americans have experienced something similar to what you and your family have experienced. And like you, my grown up children are more important to me, and how there life will be than anything else, period. When both my girls married outstanding young men, (which was one of my fears given that I have known of so many sorry ass young men) and when both my kids got careers that are safe from offshoring, one is an RN, the other owns her own business, which offshoring will never hurt, and could do well even if they were not married, that took a major worry and concern off of my mind. So I know how you feel, as many of us here do. And at least for me, politics, the arguing, the heated debate is insignificant when put up alongside you and others here as a fellow American. Whether we are working poor or middle class, or even if some of us are taking welfare because of the treason committed upon the average American.

                  Of course when it comes to getting a college education, and given our economic model, I want state universities to be as free as K through 12, for I agree with sanders that a college degree today, when it comes to jobs, making a living wage, is what a high school diploma used to be. We really do have to change, when it comes to education, when the economy changes, if americans are gonna have a chance to make a living wage. There is an essential role and a place for a Commons, where society collectively provides certain very important things, instead of leaving that up to capitalism. National defense, infrastructure, education, safety nets and healthcare. These things are so important and we should leave profit driven capitalism out of it. For that is just how important these things are to human beings who are born into a dog eat dog Darwinian capitalism. Where economic failure, in a rigged system, can cause suffering that no society should accept. And as a society we have to collectively try to give all people a chance, for capitalism does not care about a society, nor people. It only cares about profit, and has no aversion to throwing people under a bus in order to achieve that. And yet we seem to have moved from a republic, into a form of gov't based on capitalism, as if capitalism was a form of gov't. It isn't. Capitalism should primarily be first and foremost a system used by a nation to provide jobs, for jobs are what a people have to have in order to survive. Not like we are a frontier society anymore, although to listen to some they want to keep the same principles that existed when we were a frontier nation. Which do not fit, nor do they work for its a different environment. So instead of the emphasis being exclusively to max out the profits for capitalists, the emphasis should be, on a capitalism that provides necessary and essential jobs for a society, whether its here, or some other nation. We actually had something closer to that mindset, before capitalism became only the means to max out the profits of a few. We, as a nation, had a different attitude towards capitalism and saw it differently, and this is one of the factors that changed, and that changed America, and it was a change for the worse, not the better. And that change in attitude, created today's America, with the seemingly insolvable problems. The way you look at your economic m model will be the difference between a capitalism that makes for the healthiest nation, or it can literally take away the ability of a people to prosper by their work. And the latter is what has happened over the last 40 years. There is something called the common good and national interest, but we are at a point that neither matter, neither have importance. And the results of that can be seen from shore to shore, from north to south.

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                  • Originally posted by msc View Post

                    It's fine that you asked. Aside my closest of friends and family, I would not share this information, I've spent 2 years speaking with you here, almost every day, which is more than I talk to most people outside my family, and have established my stance, I consider you friends yet anonymous friends. If I believe I'm being disrespected for my situation I can simply shut my laptop. I've shared some before as we all have, however, as there is a threat of Democrats setting policy that would make my life harder with higher taxes and higher medical insurance premiums, etc., I believe it would make for a better debate, if you understand where my passion comes from that has formed my ideology.

                    ....

                    My kids are my world and their success and happiness is my future. Not doing everything in my power to help my children prosper, to keep me out of a financial hole will guarantee me unhappiness. My children would not make me trade my financial comfort for them, if they truly knew what was at risk. On the flip side, I would not take what I need above my children, because I know their future is at risk. If 3 out of the 5 of us can only prosper, then the 3 have to be my children, instead of sharing and spreading out our money and limiting all 5 of us.

                    My daughter not going to this college is not an option. Now whether my future is of poverty or comfort, will depend on our hard work, and discontinuation of the current gov't laws and policies, or not.
                    You are to be congratulated for your sacrifice. While I won't agree with you on many issues regarding gov't. services, your determination to get her into a good school should pay off. In case the issue comes up, don't let anyone convince her that she should get into a "paying" profession, for two reasons: 1) The "low pay" degrees have value in the workplace, anyway. She'll have the flexibility to write even if she is working at a shipping company, and a degree is an excuse for the company to place her in a management position. 2) Getting a degree in something that one finds uninteresting or tedious, in order to get a well paying job in that field, is asking for mental health problems down the road.

                    Your light at the end of the tunnel: At least 3 children with degrees and (eventually) well paying careers. If they offer to help you out when they are off to the races, please accept. You will be doing a favor for yourself, obviously. But your children will feel better if you let them help -it's a way they could return some of what you gave them. It's generally not a thing that is practiced in the US, but grown children helping parents financially is fairly common in other parts of the world.

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                    • Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                      You are to be congratulated for your sacrifice. While I won't agree with you on many issues regarding gov't. services, your determination to get her into a good school should pay off. In case the issue comes up, don't let anyone convince her that she should get into a "paying" profession, for two reasons: 1) The "low pay" degrees have value in the workplace, anyway. She'll have the flexibility to write even if she is working at a shipping company, and a degree is an excuse for the company to place her in a management position. 2) Getting a degree in something that one finds uninteresting or tedious, in order to get a well paying job in that field, is asking for mental health problems down the road.

                      Your light at the end of the tunnel: At least 3 children with degrees and (eventually) well paying careers. If they offer to help you out when they are off to the races, please accept. You will be doing a favor for yourself, obviously. But your children will feel better if you let them help -it's a way they could return some of what you gave them. It's generally not a thing that is practiced in the US, but grown children helping parents financially is fairly common in other parts of the world.
                      No Congratulations. No sacrifice. Doing for my children is doing for myself.

                      You do have to follow your dreams, but like my daughter you have to be level headed. she's seeking to find interest in a stable career to become educated in, to carry her while she'll writing. This is why it's so important to go to a university that offers and encourages so much more than writing and film. A college of the arts would land her uneducated in everything other than writing and film. She's also interested in health and physical fitness, history, and yes politics. Who know's maybe she'll become a history, health or english teacher, or professor, or journalist, business owner, or POLITICIAN. You have to have a reasonable plan. When she learns of what she needs to become a writer, she'll be switching around her majors and minors to incorporate a safer employable education.

                      The title of this thread "Civil Wrongs" pull me in. So, I'm in appreciation of the help and kind words, but enough of my woes. This issue has consumed all of my thought as of late, but now this challenge has settled in my mind and I will get over this hurdle as we've done with all past obstacles.

                      If you see a bank robber on the News. And I'm gone from this forum. LOL! At least in prison you get food, shelter, and healthcare. LOL.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Originally posted by msc View Post

                        No Congratulations. No sacrifice. Doing for my children is doing for myself.

                        You do have to follow your dreams, but like my daughter you have to be level headed. she's seeking to find interest in a stable career to become educated in, to carry her while she'll writing. This is why it's so important to go to a university that offers and encourages so much more than writing and film. A college of the arts would land her uneducated in everything other than writing and film. She's also interested in health and physical fitness, history, and yes politics. Who know's maybe she'll become a history, health or english teacher, or professor, or journalist, business owner, or POLITICIAN. You have to have a reasonable plan. When she learns of what she needs to become a writer, she'll be switching around her majors and minors to incorporate a safer employable education.

                        The title of this thread "Civil Wrongs" pull me in. So, I'm in appreciation of the help and kind words, but enough of my woes. This issue has consumed all of my thought as of late, but now this challenge has settled in my mind and I will get over this hurdle as we've done with all past obstacles.

                        If you see a bank robber on the News. And I'm gone from this forum. LOL! At least in prison you get food, shelter, and healthcare. LOL.
                        Fastest road to wealth in this country is Politics. If you have the stomach for it. You might check out College of the Ozarks in Hollister, MO. They call it hard work U. Students work their way through school at the school itself. Don't know a lot about the qualifications but it has a good reputation.

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                        • Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post

                          Fastest road to wealth in this country is Politics. If you have the stomach for it. You might check out College of the Ozarks in Hollister, MO. They call it hard work U. Students work their way through school at the school itself. Don't know a lot about the qualifications but it has a good reputation.
                          It's a lot easier to become rich first like Trump and the Kenedeys unless you a crook like Tom Delay and McDonald from VA

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                          • Originally posted by redrover View Post
                            It's a lot easier to become rich first like Trump and the Kenedeys unless you a crook like Tom Delay and McDonald from VA
                            Washington (CNN)The Supreme Court on Monday unanimously threw out the conviction of former Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell.

                            http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/27/politi...urt/index.html

                            WASHINGTON -- A Texas court threw out the money-laundering conviction of former House majority leader Tom DeLay, saying prosecutors failed to prove that he broke the law in a fundraising scandal from the 2002 elections.

                            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ering/2837053/

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                            • Surprisingly, there is no Kaepernick thread here (that I can find). But truly, this guy is demonstrating what I would define textbook 'Civil Wrongs', so I will dig up this thread to opine.

                              The 49ers' Colin Kaepernick decided to begin his own BLM tribute by kneeling during the national anthem before NFL games. He explained his protest by saying, "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

                              Of course he received great criticism about disrespecting this nation and our military. But the critique that caught my attention most was from NBC analyst Rodney Harrison. On iHeartRadio Harrison said, "He has to understand there might be consequences and might be backlash to what he's saying. I tell you this, I'm a black man. And Colin Kaepernick -- he's not black. He cannot understand what I face and what other young black men and black people face, or people of color face, on an every single [day] basis."

                              Later that same day - after being informed that Colin IS black - Harrison Tweeted an apology for his remarks saying he "never even knew Kaepernick was mixed"

                              Combining the colossal ignorance of these two men perfectly defines how the once prominent civil rights movement has become disgraceful.


                              Apparently the news has not reached San Francisco yet that “Hand’s up, don’t shoot!” was a DAHM Liberal fabrication. (DAHM Liberal: Democrat, Academia, Hollywood, Media) Then we have Rodney Harrison who apparently believes supporting BLM is only acceptable if you are black. Race issues in this nation have reached a place completely surreal and void of any known logic.

                              F
                              or decades I have been denouncing any acceptable norm that defines ‘offensive language’ differently depending on the color of one’s skin. After all, are separate rules not the exact oppressive past we are trying to escape from?

                              We have created a society where - if someone in line behind you speaks – you must first turn around to assess the color of their skin to decide if offended. While listening to a voice on the radio a google search may be required to distinguish between political opinions and hate speech. We have reached a place of collective insanity.

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                              • Your example involves those not directly involved in BLM, either on the protest side (an athlete) or the critic (media dude). How does this "disgrace" the civil rights movement? People who are not members of a political or social movement jam feet into mouth on a regular basis, when commenting on said movements. Your example is misdirected.

                                You might be looking for a scorecard. In that case, provide a positive vs. negative count on BLM's leadership. IOW, the police they properly identified as rogue (positive count), vs. police who were improperly accused of race bias and/or improper procedure (negative count).

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