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Silent Sam and Other Mindless Destruction

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  • Silent Sam and Other Mindless Destruction

    You might have heard of a statue named "Silent Sam" on the University of North Carolina (UNC) that was dedicated in 1913 on the 50th anniversary of the Civil War.

    The statue depicted "Mother" North Carolina calling on the students to join the fight for their state's rights. The main statue was of a soldier who has laid down his books and picked up a rifle, but no ammunition is shown because the statue is not about the war, but commemorates those who left UNC (or alumni of UNC) to joined up to do what they perceived as their duty.

    Silent Sam has been a point of contention to those who insist it is a monument to slavery and, therefore, racism; and they point to the dedication speech from 105 years ago, delivered by a white supremacist, as evidence of this.

    Last night, students and others began a quiet, "peaceful" protest that ended in willful destruction of private property as the toppled Silent Sam.

    This article from the Washington Post contains just enough facts to be considered "news:"

    A crowd toppled a Confederate statue at the University of North Carolina on Monday night, with cheers and smoke bombs filling the air.

    The monument had long been a target of students and others, a symbol of a once-honored past that many wanted to demolish. This spring, a graduate student splashed a mixture of ink and her own blood on the statue. On the night before classes began this year, a crowd gathered to demonstrate at the statue and, using ropes, pulled it down.
    I believe these students didn't give a rat's ass about the statue. They were drawn to "something to do on a Monday night" and thought they would be peaceful, but were driven into a crowd-sourced frenzy that culminated in the statue being destroyed.

    Regardless of whether or not one agrees with the Confederacy and their task in the Civil War (and, ftr, it was NOT about slavery, per se), Whitewashing history by attempting to silence statues and other memorabilia is ignorance of the highest order. Silent Sam, and the other statues, are not racist. The prompt us to remember what transpired, why it happened, and caution us to not repeat it.

    Shame on those students who participated. Double shame on those who knowingly and deftly whipped those basically ignorant students into a destructive frenzy.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
    You might have heard of a statue named "Silent Sam" on the University of North Carolina (UNC) that was dedicated in 1913 on the 50th anniversary of the Civil War.

    The statue depicted "Mother" North Carolina calling on the students to join the fight for their state's rights. The main statue was of a soldier who has laid down his books and picked up a rifle, but no ammunition is shown because the statue is not about the war, but commemorates those who left UNC (or alumni of UNC) to joined up to do what they perceived as their duty.

    Silent Sam has been a point of contention to those who insist it is a monument to slavery and, therefore, racism; and they point to the dedication speech from 105 years ago, delivered by a white supremacist, as evidence of this.

    Last night, students and others began a quiet, "peaceful" protest that ended in willful destruction of private property as the toppled Silent Sam.

    This article from the Washington Post contains just enough facts to be considered "news:"



    I believe these students didn't give a rat's ass about the statue. They were drawn to "something to do on a Monday night" and thought they would be peaceful, but were driven into a crowd-sourced frenzy that culminated in the statue being destroyed.

    Regardless of whether or not one agrees with the Confederacy and their task in the Civil War (and, ftr, it was NOT about slavery, per se), Whitewashing history by attempting to silence statues and other memorabilia is ignorance of the highest order. Silent Sam, and the other statues, are not racist. The prompt us to remember what transpired, why it happened, and caution us to not repeat it.

    Shame on those students who participated. Double shame on those who knowingly and deftly whipped those basically ignorant students into a destructive frenzy.
    When you read the confederate declaration of independence, return to this thread and explain how the confederacy was "NOT about slavery". Link:
    http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

    "States; rights" sounds better, though. You can ignore my post, the slaves, and all the working class white folk who were bamboozled by the ruling class of the confederacy, who proceeded to throw them into the meat grinder aka -battlefields of our Civil War.

    If one wants to argue in defense of statues that commemorate Wrong Decisions, that's a valid point. History is history, including our Big Mistakes. But please, don't add to the Big Mistakes by making false assumptions, especially when the information is at one's fingertips.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      So not the point of this thread. I will not argue the slavery aspect of the Civil War.

      If you'd prefer, I will remove that sentence from the OP.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
        So not the point of this thread. I will not argue the slavery aspect of the Civil War.

        If you'd prefer, I will remove that sentence from the OP.
        My great grandfather enlisted in 1861 at the age of 23. My guess it had much more to do with a young man's thirst for adventure and perhaps glory. Whatever his motivation there is no doubt that he was a traitor to the US but the Confederacy as well He went AWOL at the end OF 1862 and deserted in 1863 and again in 1864.Being poor white trash I'm sure he didn't enlist to defend slavery. That doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. I'm sure he was. I'm also sure that the young men who enlisted after 9/11 didn't realize they were in Cheney's war to steal middle eastern oil.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Originally posted by redrover View Post

          My great grandfather enlisted in 1861 at the age of 23. My guess it had much more to do with a young man's thirst for adventure and perhaps glory. Whatever his motivation there is no doubt that he was a traitor to the US but the Confederacy as well He went AWOL at the end OF 1862 and deserted in 1863 and again in 1864.Being poor white trash I'm sure he didn't enlist to defend slavery. That doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. I'm sure he was. I'm also sure that the young men who enlisted after 9/11 didn't realize they were in Cheney's war to steal middle eastern oil.
          Irrelevant.

          Do you have something intelligent to respond to the POINT of the OP?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Originally posted by redrover View Post

            My great grandfather enlisted in 1861 at the age of 23. My guess it had much more to do with a young man's thirst for adventure and perhaps glory. Whatever his motivation there is no doubt that he was a traitor to the US but the Confederacy as well He went AWOL at the end OF 1862 and deserted in 1863 and again in 1864.Being poor white trash I'm sure he didn't enlist to defend slavery. That doesn't mean he wasn't a racist. I'm sure he was. I'm also sure that the young men who enlisted after 9/11 didn't realize they were in Cheney's war to steal middle eastern oil.
            It doesn't matter what Silent Sam thought he was fighting for any more than what a Nazi soldier thought he was fighting for. Back in 1969 when I was drafted there were young men enlisting to stem the tide of communism. When in fact we were fighting to delay the inevitable to save face for Richard Nixon. The fact remains you and the people who erected the statue don't know what motivated Silent Sam to quit school and enlist. We know a real Republican would have grown some bone spurs and stayed in school.In 2020 when we get a progressive president who passes a law taking guns away from most people. After the resulting civil war I wonder if the NRA will be putting up statues to the brave men who fought so valiantly for gun rights?

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Originally posted by DavidSF View Post
              So not the point of this thread. I will not argue the slavery aspect of the Civil War.

              If you'd prefer, I will remove that sentence from the OP.
              Please leave in the slavery aspect. Every little effort helps to educate people, and the Civil War is one of our most important historical events. Were I leading the student group, I would have left the Silent Sam statue up, but would have strongly pushed for an "addition" alongside the unfortunate Sam. It would be in the form of mourning for those poor souls who were used by slave owners to serve as cannon fodder for an evil cause, masked as a good struggle for States' Rights. How about a cast sculpture of Sam's mother, weeping over a closed casket containing the remains of naive Sam? Good practice for the art students, with a "before" and "after" theme as a history lesson. The slaves should already be honored with another sculpture somewhere else on campus, but that should also have a plaque explaining an additional 100 years of Jim Crow, before the Constitutional Republic went to the trouble of outlawing "slavery lite".

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Originally posted by redrover View Post

                It doesn't matter what Silent Sam thought he was fighting for any more than what a Nazi soldier thought he was fighting for. Back in 1969 when I was drafted there were young men enlisting to stem the tide of communism. When in fact we were fighting to delay the inevitable to save face for Richard Nixon. The fact remains you and the people who erected the statue don't know what motivated Silent Sam to quit school and enlist. We know a real Republican would have grown some bone spurs and stayed in school.In 2020 when we get a progressive president who passes a law taking guns away from most people. After the resulting civil war I wonder if the NRA will be putting up statues to the brave men who fought so valiantly for gun rights?
                Likely one of the most ... if not THE most ignorant-of-facts posts you've ever made here. IN FACT, the Viet Nam war goes all the way back to Eisenhower and all presidents were consumed by their concern for it. IN FACT, there was a duplicitous, self-interested government IN SOUTH Viet Nam who did more to damage the effort than the American soldier did. IF FACT, had we helped Ho Chi Minh negotiate with the French instead of just standing idly by as the French stubbornly held onto Viet Nam, the war we fought (ineptly) would never have happened at all.

                For once in your miserable life, look something up before you post such idiotic nonsense.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                  Please leave in the slavery aspect. Every little effort helps to educate people, and the Civil War is one of our most important historical events. Were I leading the student group, I would have left the Silent Sam statue up, but would have strongly pushed for an "addition" alongside the unfortunate Sam. It would be in the form of mourning for those poor souls who were used by slave owners to serve as cannon fodder for an evil cause, masked as a good struggle for States' Rights. How about a cast sculpture of Sam's mother, weeping over a closed casket containing the remains of naive Sam? Good practice for the art students, with a "before" and "after" theme as a history lesson. The slaves should already be honored with another sculpture somewhere else on campus, but that should also have a plaque explaining an additional 100 years of Jim Crow, before the Constitutional Republic went to the trouble of outlawing "slavery lite".
                  WELL, it does seem there is little interest in this property being destroyed by mindless drones. SO...

                  First, what I said was NOT denying slavery as a cause, but to me, it was an underlying cause (what I said was, "...it was NOT about slavery, per se) To my understanding, it was about the economics of that region, to which slavery was an integral part (according to the south). The South resented the federal government telling them they could not farm their land the way then "needed" to. In the North, however, they (also) did not go to war to end slavery: Slavery, for the North, didn't really even become an issue until the Emancipation Proclamation; at least not a compelling one. The North was fighting to keep the Union together (to keep the Southern States from seceding). Once they saw all those fleeing slaves running to the North for protection (and freedom), they started getting clued in, but EVEN THEN, those slaves were 2nd class citizens, at best (didn't the Emancipation Proclamation still allow slavery in those border states that had not seceded?).

                  I'm not saying slavery was not an issue for the South; and I'm definitely not saying it was "all about states rights" ... although both of those played key roles. I'm saying that the southern "gentlemen" were committed to how slavery contributed to their economies and coincidentally, also indignant that the Federal Government would dare tell THEM how to live.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DavidSF View Post

                    WELL, it does seem there is little interest in this property being destroyed by mindless drones. SO...

                    First, what I said was NOT denying slavery as a cause, but to me, it was an underlying cause (what I said was, "...it was NOT about slavery, per se) To my understanding, it was about the economics of that region, to which slavery was an integral part (according to the south). The South resented the federal government telling them they could not farm their land the way then "needed" to. In the North, however, they (also) did not go to war to end slavery: Slavery, for the North, didn't really even become an issue until the Emancipation Proclamation; at least not a compelling one. The North was fighting to keep the Union together (to keep the Southern States from seceding). Once they saw all those fleeing slaves running to the North for protection (and freedom), they started getting clued in, but EVEN THEN, those slaves were 2nd class citizens, at best (didn't the Emancipation Proclamation still allow slavery in those border states that had not seceded?).

                    I'm not saying slavery was not an issue for the South; and I'm definitely not saying it was "all about states rights" ... although both of those played key roles. I'm saying that the southern "gentlemen" were committed to how slavery contributed to their economies and coincidentally, also indignant that the Federal Government would dare tell THEM how to live.
                    I have no illusions about the north's intentions toward slaves before the Civil War, nor for 100 years after. I figured that out by the time I was in 8th or 9th grade; the north kept their ignorance on racial issues in a tidy little box, on a shelf in the closet. The south made their ignorance public -Big Metal Statues and parades with people waving confederate flags.

                    -Had the north wanted to start racial healing before the war, they would have legalized escaped slaves in their own states (they had to go to Canada to be truly liberated), and they would have legalized various acts -up to and including injuring or killing their captors- if that were required to escape. It would have shocked everyone at the time, but that very law could be argued in the context of both the constitution and the revolution, and people would have come to realize it was a patriotic law to give despots justice.

                    The only people in the south who were clued in to what was really happening were your "Southern Gentlemen" (slave owners and the middle class integrated into the plantation economy). Everyone else was played like a southern fiddle. What is truly amazing to me, is how many southern people are still being played. No doubt, the racial hypocrisy of the north, along with an extremely poor execution of reconstruction after the Civil War, points to the north's role in maintaining an impoverished south. That being said, the south also has to accept their own contribution to that impoverishment.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by radcentr View Post
                      I have no illusions about the north's intentions toward slaves before the Civil War, nor for 100 years after. I figured that out by the time I was in 8th or 9th grade; the north kept their ignorance on racial issues in a tidy little box, on a shelf in the closet. The south made their ignorance public -Big Metal Statues and parades with people waving confederate flags.

                      -Had the north wanted to start racial healing before the war, they would have legalized escaped slaves in their own states (they had to go to Canada to be truly liberated), and they would have legalized various acts -up to and including injuring or killing their captors- if that were required to escape. It would have shocked everyone at the time, but that very law could be argued in the context of both the constitution and the revolution, and people would have come to realize it was a patriotic law to give despots justice.

                      The only people in the south who were clued in to what was really happening were your "Southern Gentlemen" (slave owners and the middle class integrated into the plantation economy). Everyone else was played like a southern fiddle. What is truly amazing to me, is how many southern people are still being played. No doubt, the racial hypocrisy of the north, along with an extremely poor execution of reconstruction after the Civil War, points to the north's role in maintaining an impoverished south. That being said, the south also has to accept their own contribution to that impoverishment.
                      Reconstruction under Andrew Johnson was an unmitigated disaster. Too bad Lincoln wasn't there to do it right. Personally I would have left Sam alone to collect pidgeon poop which pleased the racist because Pidgeon poop is white.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by redrover View Post

                        Reconstruction under Andrew Johnson was an unmitigated disaster. Too bad Lincoln wasn't there to do it right. Personally I would have left Sam alone to collect pidgeon poop which pleased the racist because Pidgeon poop is white.
                        Interesting. Poor Sam was crapped on by the plantation owners when he was alive, is being crapped on by pigeons for posterity's sake.

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                        • #13
                          I'm all for taking down the consolation prize statues erected by the descendants of the losers of the civil war but it should be done in a calm and orderly fashion by the owners of the land and monuments not angry mobs of half-wits.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                            I'm all for taking down the consolation prize statues erected by the descendants of the losers of the civil war but it should be done in a calm and orderly fashion by the owners of the land and monuments not angry mobs of half-wits.
                            I can even accept this if, as you said, the owners take them down...

                            but whipping a crowd crowd of mindless drone children into a frenzy should be punishable by the law.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JDJarvis View Post
                              I'm all for taking down the consolation prize statues erected by the descendants of the losers of the civil war but it should be done in a calm and orderly fashion by the owners of the land and monuments not angry mobs of half-wits.
                              In a legal and orderly manner. That would be the right way.

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