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Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

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  • #16
    Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

    Originally posted by CalifornCracker View Post
    So instead of you expressing your opinion you call my experience into question? To repeat, "I have never met a right wing professor." I went to a university in southern California.
    It was my (in the context of this thread/forum not unreasonable) assumption that you mentioned this anecdote to further the attempt of the right to paint universities and professors as generally leftwing.

    In a concessionary spirit though, I suspect that what part of the populace of this forum considers leftwing encapsulates some 90% of the world population, thus also 90% of college professors.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #17
      Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

      I think a more appropriate title of this thread would be, "Challenge the gay community (again), reap what you sow: This aint the 50's no more!"

      Fox News alleges LGBT classes are "controversial", however Colleges and Universities across the country have offered similar LGBT degrees since the 60's, where many teachers, counselors, principles, social workers, healthcare professionals, human resource managers, and criminal justice lawyers, have benefited from them in some way over the years, so it's not like there isn't a use or a market for it nor is a degree in LGBT studies any more or less useful than a degree in Christian Studies, Islamic Studies, or other sociological degrees. Fox News and his butt-bud Todd simply feel uncomfortable or just don't like the idea of Universities supporting LGBT courses. For personal reasons I guess.

      The sexual harassment claim is probably a retaliation, but being gay or having a degree in LGBT studies is not "controversial" so I can see why someone might be offended by Todds assertions.. Tit for tat it would seem to me, like I said, the charge may be retaliatory in nature, but not wholly unexpected in such internal disputes among colleagues. Though it's difficult to come to any legitimate conclusion on the harassment claim as Fox News gave very little information on the bases of the actual charges and didn't really provide much but a partisan point of view.

      Besides, if i was in a similar position of authority as Todd and wrote an angry, politically charged letter to my University alleging Christian studies are "controversial" and should be cut from the budget because Christianity is bad for society, legal action against me would be the least of my worries.

      I suppose all of this could have been avoided if only the University had changed the name of the course to "Sexual Promiscuity, and the Decline of Morality".. Todds letter may have well been much more supportive!
      Last edited by Criminal Rock; 09-17-2012, 03:46 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

        To me, having a degree in LGTB (rather than a course or a thesis) is controversial, because it sounds like bullshit.

        What's next? A degree in people who wear green pants?

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #19
          Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

          Originally posted by erikvv View Post
          I suspect that what part of the populace of this forum considers leftwing encapsulates some 90% of the world population, thus also 90% of college professors.

          American politics does not equal world politics. America is far more conservative than most of the world. I guess this poll is as good as any other in guaging the red/blue status of the US.

          Amazon Election Heat Map 2012

          The 2010 election results in 3d by color
          http://aidwatchers.com/wp/wp-content...der-ONeill.gif

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #20
            Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

            Originally posted by CalifornCracker View Post
            University professors need to be aware of the University's "editorial" policy or they will find some way to get you.
            See, I agree with this piece ... but the university took 4 months to investigate and, then, didn't discipline him so he could not have transgressed their policy.

            AND, even if he did step UP to the line or a little over it, he still has his first amendment rights... they cannot contract that away from him.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #21
              Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

              Originally posted by Criminal Rock View Post
              I think a more appropriate title of this thread would be, "Challenge the gay community (again), reap what you sow: This aint the 50's no more!"

              Fox News alleges LGBT classes are "controversial", however Colleges and Universities across the country have offered similar LGBT degrees since the 60's, where many teachers, counselors, principles, social workers, healthcare professionals, human resource managers, and criminal justice lawyers, have benefited from them in some way over the years, so it's not like there isn't a use or a market for it nor is a degree in LGBT studies any more or less useful than a degree in Christian Studies, Islamic Studies, or other sociological degrees. Fox News and his butt-bud Todd simply feel uncomfortable or just don't like the idea of Universities supporting LGBT courses. For personal reasons I guess.

              The sexual harassment claim is probably a retaliation, but being gay or having a degree in LGBT studies is not "controversial" so I can see why someone might be offended by Todds assertions.. Tit for tat it would seem to me, like I said, the charge may be retaliatory in nature, but not wholly unexpected in such internal disputes among colleagues. Though it's difficult to come to any legitimate conclusion on the harassment claim as Fox News gave very little information on the bases of the actual charges and didn't really provide much but a partisan point of view.

              Besides, if i was in a similar position of authority as Todd and wrote an angry, politically charged letter to my University alleging Christian studies are "controversial" and should be cut from the budget because Christianity is bad for society, legal action against me would be the least of my worries.

              I suppose all of this could have been avoided if only the University had changed the name of the course to "Sexual Promiscuity, and the Decline of Morality".. Todds letter may have well been much more supportive!
              So, now, homosexuality is a religion?

              You have a lot of completely assumed perceptions here, particularly about what motivates others whom you don't know.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #22
                Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                See, I agree with this piece ... but the university took 4 months to investigate and, then, didn't discipline him so he could not have transgressed their policy.

                AND, even if he did step UP to the line or a little over it, he still has his first amendment rights... they cannot contract that away from him.
                Actually, in general, yes you can. I don't know how it works with public colleges, but the general idea is that the first amendment most definitely can be contracted away. If I work for Walmart, and go around the store saying Walmart sucks and that the customers should shop elsewhere, I'm almost certain I can be fired for that. If I am a marketing specialist for Walmart and make an advertisement badmouthing Walmart when I should be promoting them, I would be very surprised to keep the job.

                The first amendment is protection from government infringement of free speech. It is not protection from all organizations no matter the circumstances.

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                • #23
                  Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                  Originally posted by erikvv View Post
                  Maybe things are different in some other universities, but in my experience rightwing clichיs about Universities are generally wrong. My professors were perfectly able to express their opinions, arrange their classes and do their studies regardless of what the faculty managers thought.
                  Would a professor at your university be able to include RACE, EVOLUTION, AND BEHAVIOR, by Professor J. Philippe Rushton of the University of Western Ontario as required reading in his course?

                  It has passages like this:

                  Modern science shows a three-way pattern of race differences in both physical traits and behavior. On average, Orientals are slower to mature, less fertile, less sexually active, less aggressive, and have larger brains and higher IQ scores. Blacks are at the other pole. Whites fall in the middle, but closer to Orientals than to Blacks...

                  The three-way race pattern occurs in milestones such as sexual maturity, family stability, crime rates, and population growth...

                  On all the counts, Orientals are the least sexually active, Blacks the most, and Whites are in between...

                  On average Orientals have the largest brains and highest IQs. Blacks average the lowest, and Whites fall in between...

                  Growing up in a middle-class White home does not lower the average IQ for Orientals nor raise it for Blacks...

                  http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org...n_Behavior.pdf

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #24
                    Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                    From the beginning of the Cold War to the Tet Offensive in 1968 it was dangerous in the United States to criticize capitalism, advocate socialism, or praise the Soviet Union or another Communist country. Those who did risked their jobs.

                    Now it is dangerous to criticize blacks and homosexuals. It is particularly dangerous to claim that high rates of black crime and illegitimacy and low average black intelligence (by every measurable criterion) are due to genetic differences.Those who do risk their jobs.

                    I think all constraints on the expression of opinions and the propagation of facts are unacceptable. Democracies benefit when the voters are exposed to many different points of view.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #25
                      Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                      Originally posted by erikvv View Post
                      A rightwing clichי that's simply wrong.

                      Many of my professors gloat at the thought that 50% would fail the first year. How is that leftwing?
                      It appeals to the left wing elitist attitude. They think they are just a little better than anyone else.

                      And I learned early on in college to just regurgitate what some left wing professor professed if I wanted a passing grade. Argue or prove him wrong and you will get a D at best.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #26
                        Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                        Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                        It appeals to the left wing elitist attitude. They think they are just a little better than anyone else.

                        And I learned early on in college to just regurgitate what some left wing professor professed if I wanted a passing grade. Argue or prove him wrong and you will get a D at best.
                        Remember, this professor has just been investigated, not punished. Every discipline has its orthodoxy or "paradigm" and professors are generally obliged to teach within it or to have a good reason to disagree. Students are expected to accept it until they are professors themselves and still must have a good reason to strongly dissent even then, like any professor if they should become one. Try arguing a fundamentalist viewpoint of evolution in a biology class and you will most likely fail the class, but the same thing would happen if you were a devotee of Scientology in the geology department, or a history major insisting that Nazis from Antarctica have ruled the world since 1945. (Unless, of course, you have actual documented PROOF of the Thetans in the volcanos, and they would have just quietly spirted you away to the Vesuvian HQ by now)
                        Last edited by John Drake; 10-18-2012, 08:36 AM.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #27
                          Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                          Originally posted by John Drake View Post
                          Remember, this professor has just been investigated, not punished. Every discipline has its orthodoxy or "paradigm" and professors are generally obliged to teach within it or to have a good reason to disagree. Students are expected to accept it until they are professors themselves and still must have a good reason to strongly dissent even then, like any professor if they should become one. Try arguing a fundamentalist viewpoint of evolution in a biology class and you will most likely fail the class, but the same thing would happen if you were a devotee of Scientology in the geology department, or a history major insisting that Nazis from Antarctica have ruled the world since 1945. (Unless, of course, you have actual documented PROOF of the Thetans in the volcanos, and they would have just quietly spirted you away to the Vesuvian HQ by now)
                          Yeah, it's just a shame that the investigation was nearly as bad as the punishment. Of course, that might have been by design.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #28
                            Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                            Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                            It's more clearcut than that to me.

                            I don't need to read the marketing on the package of almonds to know I'm allergic to Almonds.

                            The professor was expressing his opinion in a general circulation newspaper that is not in any way beholdin' to the college. He has that right as guaranteed by the constitution.

                            Because he exercised his right, his co-worker sued him and the college investigated him. Based on the outcome of the college's investigation, he clearly did not violate any contractual obligations, so all of this was to keep those who disagreed in line and keep them from expressing opinions and values those liberals did not agree with.
                            He has the right under the first amendment to criticize the college, and that right guarantees he won't be prosecuted for saying what he thinks, and he has not been prosecuted in any state or federal court, so his first amendment rights are intact.
                            The College of Alameda is a private entity, they are bound by a private contract between the college and the professor, which provides for the process that was used.
                            This has got nothing to do with the first amendment.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                              Originally posted by Good1 View Post
                              AND, though eventually the university decided to not discipline him, they warned him to not talk publicly about the investigation..



                              He should have known better: Clearly, the first amendment is only there to guarantee rights to those who agree with the intolerant left.
                              Originally posted by soot View Post
                              I'd have to read the actual letter he wrote before I could take sides on this.
                              You mean you'll have to read the Constitution before taking sides on this.

                              Originally posted by Disillusioned_1 View Post
                              Just a couple of points: Freedom of speech only applies to government control of speech/writing. Private companies are certainly within their legal rights to restrict the speech of their employees.
                              My point exactly.

                              Originally posted by John Drake View Post
                              Remember, this professor has just been investigated, not punished.
                              Perhaps you are in denial of the significance of intimidation from the warning that chills ALL in the indoctrination system. This reveals the essence of so-called education today, where the bastion of ideas competing for acceptance used to be. The idea that certain studies, like alchemy, are not value added to civilization is not to be tolerated; all studies are "equal" in all ways by decree. In short, another nail in the coffin of our culture.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • #30
                                Re: Challenge the politically correct, get punished: Sounds about right!

                                Those who major in gay studies, black studies, or women's studies waste time and money. Those majors nurture a feeling of personal grievance. One with such a major is likely to blame disappointments and failures on being the member of an oppressed group. The only thing one might possibly get from such a major are good written and verbal skills. The courses frequently require term papers and essay exams.

                                If I was an employer looking for good written and verbal skills I would rather hire someone who majored in English literature or perhaps journalism. A person with a major in gay, black, or women's studies is likely to have a chip on his or her shoulder.

                                There may be majors in Jewish Studies, or Asian Studies. I doubt many Jews or Asians take those majors. They would rather study courses that can help them get good jobs.

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