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Rolling Jubilee

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  • Rolling Jubilee

    So apparently OWS, or some faction within OWS, has kind of organized itself and developed this new strategy, or tactic, or activity, or whatever you want to call it, whereby they buy up defaulted, written-off debt from banks on a secondary debt market and then rather than attempting to collect on it just absolve the debtors.

    They call it the "Rolling Jubilee" in reference to the Old Testament practice of debtors being forgiven on the Jubilee Sabbath (maybe Good1 or one of our other more Biblically astute members can correct me if I'm not totally accurate here, or otherwise elaborate on this).

    Here's a link to the program: Rolling Jubilee

    I was listening to a report about the program on NPR last night and I thought it was interesting.

    I certainly wouldn't support it financially myself but I have no real objection to the program or the ppeople who do support it. If people voluntarially contribute their own money that's their business, and I see no reason why people who want to forgive debt should be prohibited from doing so.

    The big knock on the program is that if people know this kind of program exists they'll become even more irresponsible with money than they generally already are. If you know your debt will be forgiven then there's no motivation at all to try to be even a little bit responsible in paying back your creditors.

    Personally I think that position is pretty weak.

    For one thing you can't go onto the secondary debt market and buy debt based on who the debtor is. You basically buy a "block" of debt and only then, once you own it, will you find out who you need to collect from (or forgive). For another thing, these people will never raise enough money to buy and forgive ALL defaulted debt.

    Combined, that means that having your debt forgiven, as an individual, by menas of this program, is a complete and total crap shoot.

    Folks would be better off taking their life savings, going to Vegas, and trying to raise money to pay off their debt at the Blackjack tables than they would holding their breath waiting for OWS to pay off what they owe.

    At most I think this program will help a handful of lucky people get out from under their old debt while also serving to call a little bit of attention to the debt crisis.

  • #2
    Re: Rolling Jubilee

    No this can't be anyone from OWS. They were such low scum that none would have the motivation to grant the tradition of Jubilee to people they didn't even know. These people are incapable of helping out anyone that requires human effort.

    This ain't a jubilee, its communism. The next thing they will do is to buy businesses and give them to the US Gov't so they can realize their dreams of Socialism. Since the gov't won't do it themselves, the OWS folks will do it for them. If you are gonna be accused of being socialists, you may as well start acting like one I reckon.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: Rolling Jubilee

      This has been going on for years with defaulted hospitals and clinics.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Rolling Jubilee

        Originally posted by soot View Post
        So apparently OWS, or some faction within OWS, has kind of organized itself and developed this new strategy, or tactic, or activity, or whatever you want to call it, whereby they buy up defaulted, written-off debt from banks on a secondary debt market and then rather than attempting to collect on it just absolve the debtors.

        They call it the "Rolling Jubilee" in reference to the Old Testament practice of debtors being forgiven on the Jubilee Sabbath (maybe Good1 or one of our other more Biblically astute members can correct me if I'm not totally accurate here, or otherwise elaborate on this).

        Here's a link to the program: Rolling Jubilee

        I was listening to a report about the program on NPR last night and I thought it was interesting.

        I certainly wouldn't support it financially myself but I have no real objection to the program or the ppeople who do support it. If people voluntarially contribute their own money that's their business, and I see no reason why people who want to forgive debt should be prohibited from doing so.

        The big knock on the program is that if people know this kind of program exists they'll become even more irresponsible with money than they generally already are. If you know your debt will be forgiven then there's no motivation at all to try to be even a little bit responsible in paying back your creditors.

        Personally I think that position is pretty weak.

        For one thing you can't go onto the secondary debt market and buy debt based on who the debtor is. You basically buy a "block" of debt and only then, once you own it, will you find out who you need to collect from (or forgive). For another thing, these people will never raise enough money to buy and forgive ALL defaulted debt.

        Combined, that means that having your debt forgiven, as an individual, by menas of this program, is a complete and total crap shoot.

        Folks would be better off taking their life savings, going to Vegas, and trying to raise money to pay off their debt at the Blackjack tables than they would holding their breath waiting for OWS to pay off what they owe.

        At most I think this program will help a handful of lucky people get out from under their old debt while also serving to call a little bit of attention to the debt crisis.
        It's theatre, the amount of actual debt forgiven is minuscule, but the idea gets aired out in public.

        One of the reasons that jubilee works is that it is possible for an economy to be gummed up with debt, as ours is now. Debt is hindering economic activity.
        Clear out the debt and the economy roars back to life, of course there are losers, but the idea being that there is a net gain.
        The idea of forgiving debt worked because it was usually wealthy people who owned the debt, who had other wealth, so they weren't devastated by the sudden loss of an asset, and the date of the jubilee was known well in advance, they also re divvied up the real estate.
        Think of a monopoly game, near the end of the game there is one guy with most of the money, waiting for people to land on his hotels, it's not particularly exciting, so you start a new game. It works. It's what God wants (if you believe the bible).

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Rolling Jubilee

          Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
          No this can't be anyone from OWS. They were such low scum that none would have the motivation to grant the tradition of Jubilee to people they didn't even know. These people are incapable of helping out anyone that requires human effort.

          This ain't a jubilee, its communism. The next thing they will do is to buy businesses and give them to the US Gov't so they can realize their dreams of Socialism. Since the gov't won't do it themselves, the OWS folks will do it for them. If you are gonna be accused of being socialists, you may as well start acting like one I reckon.
          Quite a few people get in debt no matter how hard they work simply due to bad luck. Only idiots would deliberately get in debt in the vain hope of being financially rescued.
          If they are helping families where parents have been made redundant and have had no choice but to get in debt or got into debt because of health issues I can't see how you can claim that it's a bad program.
          This is no different than a charity helping poor people so the only reason I can see for your dislike of this is your rather overblown dislike of anything you think has the stench of socialism which this program doesn't.

          If I was in the US I would donate to this cause.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Rolling Jubilee

            Wow and they don't NEED government to make them do this....

            Sure it is OWS?

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Rolling Jubilee

              Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
              No this can't be anyone from OWS. They were such low scum that none would have the motivation to grant the tradition of Jubilee to people they didn't even know. These people are incapable of helping out anyone that requires human effort.

              This ain't a jubilee, its communism. The next thing they will do is to buy businesses and give them to the US Gov't so they can realize their dreams of Socialism. Since the gov't won't do it themselves, the OWS folks will do it for them. If you are gonna be accused of being socialists, you may as well start acting like one I reckon.
              How much of your money do you intend to send them? Or are you just going to promote a government program that takes money from the rich and sends a share of it to them?

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Rolling Jubilee

                BTW: Anyone know where that bunch got the money to do this?

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Rolling Jubilee

                  Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                  BTW: Anyone know where that bunch got the money to do this?
                  I'm sure it all came from Bluedoggy, Peter, Goober, Bfgrn, and Citizen.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Rolling Jubilee

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    I'm sure it all came from Bluedoggy, Peter, Goober, Bfgrn, and Citizen.
                    I got a question for you, how much are post IPO shares REALLY worth?
                    Only what some schmuck THINKS it's worth.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: Rolling Jubilee

                      Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                      No this can't be anyone from OWS. They were such low scum that none would have the motivation to grant the tradition of Jubilee to people they didn't even know. These people are incapable of helping out anyone that requires human effort.

                      This ain't a jubilee, its communism. The next thing they will do is to buy businesses and give them to the US Gov't so they can realize their dreams of Socialism. Since the gov't won't do it themselves, the OWS folks will do it for them. If you are gonna be accused of being socialists, you may as well start acting like one I reckon.
                      Christ. BD I don't like hippies either. But I know several and its not like they're bad folk. Misguided yes, and some of them are quite stupid while others are quite intelligent. Sounds just like both our political parties.

                      Not to toot their horns for them, but at least in houston, the occupy movement and its offshoots have actually done some real good helping to feed the homeless, working on political elections (that didn't succeed but hey at least these young people are getting involved in politics) and indeed participating in activities just like this. I have no problem with a charity (which is what this is) helping folks out when they can. I'm sure you don't have a problem with charities BD, so it must be the OWS name and its bad brand. You need to realize that the OWS "movement" was originally joined in by a whole shit ton of people, who got tired of squatting in parks and went home to their xbox. Those who remained involved in the org are mostly true believers and hysterically enough comport themselves in both political and personal ideology quite like the original church (community property, anarchism/non-recognition of government authority and legitimacy, helping the needy etc).
                      Surely you're not against the original church BD? Perhaps I need to drink more coffee but I had thought you quite devout Christian.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: Rolling Jubilee

                        Originally posted by goober View Post
                        It's theatre, the amount of actual debt forgiven is minuscule, but the idea gets aired out in public.

                        One of the reasons that jubilee works is that it is possible for an economy to be gummed up with debt, as ours is now. Debt is hindering economic activity.
                        Clear out the debt and the economy roars back to life, of course there are losers, but the idea being that there is a net gain.
                        The idea of forgiving debt worked because it was usually wealthy people who owned the debt, who had other wealth, so they weren't devastated by the sudden loss of an asset, and the date of the jubilee was known well in advance, they also re divvied up the real estate.
                        Think of a monopoly game, near the end of the game there is one guy with most of the money, waiting for people to land on his hotels, it's not particularly exciting, so you start a new game. It works. It's what God wants (if you believe the bible).
                        My God. That's twice now we've agreed on something goob. These are truly strange and exciting end times we are living in.

                        I love how everyone who has so far come out against this program on the board are Christians. Methinks some folk need to re-read their Bible, starting with Gospels, proceeding through Acts, and finishing up with the Letters. Lots of commie rhetoric in there.

                        (̅_̅_̅(̅(̅_̅_̅_̅_̅_̅̅()ڪ

                        Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                        BTW: Anyone know where that bunch got the money to do this?
                        Donations like any charity. Oddly enough a number of my facebook friends mentioned the Jubilee this morning. Several had donated some money. One had shelled out $100 and with other donations had purchased and wiped $2000 worth of medical debt.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: Rolling Jubilee

                          Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                          Wow and they don't NEED government to make them do this....

                          Sure it is OWS?
                          Yeah I am. I know several in the Houston branch/chapter/thingee and they won't shut up about it. Most of them are what they like to call "voluntaryists" so theyre big on the whole charity thing, and humanitarian junk.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: Rolling Jubilee

                            Originally posted by reality View Post
                            Yeah I am. I know several in the Houston branch/chapter/thingee and they won't shut up about it. Most of them are what they like to call "voluntaryists" so theyre big on the whole charity thing, and humanitarian junk.
                            This is kinda tangentally related to the OP but looking around in recent years I see a lot of new outlets for, or manifestations of, volunteerisim.

                            Between what these OWS folks are doing, the many veterans charities that have sprung up in the wake of the war, the resurgence of Habitat for Humanity, heck, living in NJ the last couple of weeks you can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting someone doing some kind of Hurricane Sandy relief. I'm sure there are many, many other examples.

                            It reminds me of the surge in volunteer activity at the turn of the last century. Just as an example, the Rotary Club, the Lions Club, and the Kiwanis Club were all founded as volunteer organizations between 1910 and 1920. The depression decade-ish that followed, up to and including the Second World War years, saw a wave of volunteerism in this country that will possibly never be equaled.

                            It's kind of reassuring that as shitty, stupid, self-absorbed, and focused on nonsense as Americans are there are still plenty willing to pull together in a time of crisis.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: Rolling Jubilee

                              It's a pretty stupid investment but these idiots have made "careers" on sidewalks for themselves based on these silly investments.

                              I can't pretend to be surprised that they're still doing it.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?

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