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Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

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  • #31
    Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

    Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
    This kinda caught me off guard. I was unaware that the GOP is against women getting equal pay. I would have picked abortion, not equal pay, as the divisive issue. I really don't know where the pay thing came from.
    That is just my assumption, it is one of many I suspect Obama will visit even if we have existing legislation on the subject.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #32
      Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

      Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
      This is another area where Obama is setting up taking some initiative over his 2nd term. In some respects, becoming more liberal but for the most part still staying with center left limits. Just like with immigration, Obama will be able to use the typical Republican response to the rights of Women (generally in the area of pay) and the rights of Gays (generally in the area of recognized marriage) against them. With each we are seeing the majority of Americans no longer siding with Republicans the further we go here. From your chair it may be strawman, but it is one that will further penalize Republicans who even recently go out of their way to alienate potential voters.
      Penalize? I hardly consider being in the majority as the sole variable to govern whether one is right or not. I mean, there was a majority that didn't want women to vote a few years back. Were the minority of people who supported women's suffrage in the wrong for their beliefs?

      I'd rather be right and in the minority than be wrong. I don't see that as a penalty. I see that as a sign of deepening human depravity. I'll not let you get away with framing this in your one-sided portrayal.

      (PS. I feel like I'm picking on you tonight but, honestly, I don't mean to.)

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      • #33
        Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

        Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
        This kinda caught me off guard. I was unaware that the GOP is against women getting equal pay. I would have picked abortion, not equal pay, as the divisive issue. I really don't know where the pay thing came from.
        The Lily Ledbetter Act. Obama used it as a wedge issue against Romney.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #34
          Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

          Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
          Penalize? I hardly consider being in the majority as the sole variable to govern whether one is right or not. I mean, there was a majority that didn't want women to vote a few years back. Were the minority of people who supported women's suffrage in the wrong for their beliefs?

          I'd rather be right and in the minority than be wrong. I don't see that as a penalty. I see that as a sign of deepening human depravity. I'll not let you get away with framing this in your one-sided portrayal.

          (PS. I feel like I'm picking on you tonight but, honestly, I don't mean to.)
          No worries, I don't mind the challenges.

          My take on this is something I have been going on about for a while now. The pulse of the nation has changed enough to slide slightly more socially liberal. As of recent when Republicans challenge on social issues it tends to not go well. I've made plenty of posts on this. Being in that minority is only a penalty politically is what I am driving at, and we see it being played out. From my chair I wish the Republican Party would try for being the fiscal conservatives they are not instead of trying to be the social conservatives that are pushing them into a minority position. But realistically I know it will not happen, which is probably why I should be a Libertarian looking for the smaller less costly government Republicans currently have made worse.

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          • #35
            Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

            Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
            No worries, I don't mind the challenges.

            My take on this is something I have been going on about for a while now. The pulse of the nation has changed enough to slide slightly more socially liberal. As of recent when Republicans challenge on social issues it tends to not go well. I've made plenty of posts on this. Being in that minority is only a penalty politically is what I am driving at, and we see it being played out. From my chair I wish the Republican Party would try for being the fiscal conservatives they are not instead of trying to be the social conservatives that are pushing them into a minority position. But realistically I know it will not happen, which is probably why I should be a Libertarian looking for the smaller less costly government Republicans currently have made worse.
            Taking the moral high ground certainly doesn't make you electable in this country today. Of course we see all around us the results of the road most taken.

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            • #36
              Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

              Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
              Taking the moral high ground certainly doesn't make you electable in this country today. Of course we see all around us the results of the road most taken.
              This is all I am saying, one has a cost to the other. No one is saying don't have your moral beliefs. I am saying though Republicans trying to legislate those beliefs are making them a minority the further we go along here. Too many polls back up what I am getting at, the SE social conservative vote strategy no longer does what it once could.

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              • #37
                Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

                Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                No worries, I don't mind the challenges.

                My take on this is something I have been going on about for a while now. The pulse of the nation has changed enough to slide slightly more socially liberal. As of recent when Republicans challenge on social issues it tends to not go well. I've made plenty of posts on this. Being in that minority is only a penalty politically is what I am driving at, and we see it being played out. From my chair I wish the Republican Party would try for being the fiscal conservatives they are not instead of trying to be the social conservatives that are pushing them into a minority position. But realistically I know it will not happen, which is probably why I should be a Libertarian looking for the smaller less costly government Republicans currently have made worse.
                Agreed. I'm fairly Libertarian barring two issues and one of them I believe doesn't contradict while the other I've toyed with a Libertarian solution. Problem is, you can't effect any changes outside of the two parties so you're stuck with trying to change a party you don't really want to be a part of.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #38
                  Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

                  Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                  Agreed. I'm fairly Libertarian barring two issues and one of them I believe doesn't contradict while the other I've toyed with a Libertarian solution. Problem is, you can't effect any changes outside of the two parties so you're stuck with trying to change a party you don't really want to be a part of.
                  Well being Libertarian, even if by total accident, puts us both in a position with less representation than social conservatives these days.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

                    Originally posted by PeterUK75 View Post
                    I suppose the idea that Obama won by having a more popular platform than Romney is a bit old fashioned?
                    It honestly amazes me to see so many Republican supporters blame the loss on poor people voting for free stuff or people just being plain ignorant and not seeing that they lost because not enough people were convinced enough by the party to vote for them.

                    Calling 47% of the population spongers is not a vote winning tactic however you try and spin it.
                    Except that's exactly what exit polling and the Obama campaign have told us happened. The Obama campaign micro targeted 'low information, unlikely voters', in key counties in 5 states, found out their 'needs' and 'fears' and played on them. A little more than 400,000 voters in 5 states, were told by paid Obama staff, most of the time with social media, sometimes in person one-on-one, just exactly what they needed to hear to first get out to vote and second to vote for Obama. This was done, with great skill I might add, to bring in just enough votes in just the right places.

                    Many (most) never heard the 47% comment... that's what made them low info voters. What they heard was targeted to them... what effect (allegedly) would happen to them if Romney was elected.



                    Originally posted by AdamKadmon View Post
                    A nonpartisan statement, if I may:

                    The electorate is no smarter, or dumber, when they vote for the candidate you support than when they vote for the candidate you don't. If you believe the electorate is stupid, that's fine (and you won't get any argument from me); but they were just as stupid when they voted for Bush as when they voted for Obama; just as stupid when they gave the Republicans control of the House as when they gave Democrat control of the House.
                    Generally that is only half true.

                    Transitionally the Democrats, when they lose, blame the stupid, no good, pieces of shit, that were too butt stupid to vote in their own interest.

                    We Republicans on the other hand always blame ourselves, or our candidates for having a poor campaign, not getting our message out, not reaching our voters, etc, etc.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Women's Rights? Gay Rights?

                      Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                      Generally that is only half true.

                      Transitionally the Democrats, when they lose, blame the stupid, no good, pieces of shit, that were too butt stupid to vote in their own interest.

                      We Republicans on the other hand always blame ourselves, or our candidates for having a poor campaign, not getting our message out, not reaching our voters, etc, etc.
                      Nonsense. You guys have made an art form out of blaming the "liberal" (cough, cough) media for everything that doesn't go in your favor. And, of course, you attack the voters for being too stupid, or being "takers," or whatever. That is not to say that liberals aren't guilty of the same double-standard. My point was non-partisan, as I said. But if you can't see it — which apparently, you can't — you are undoubtedly one of the worst offenders.

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