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What are you guys doing at GITMO?

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  • What are you guys doing at GITMO?

    Is this Soviet Russia or the USA? Honestly this turns my stomach.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/15/op...bay.html?_r=1&

    Ive been on a hunger strike since Feb. 10 and have lost well over 30 pounds. I will not eat until they restore my dignity.

    Ive been detained at Guantnamo for 11 years and three months. I have never been charged with any crime. I have never received a trial.

    I could have been home years ago no one seriously thinks I am a threat but still I am here. Years ago the military said I was a guard for Osama bin Laden, but this was nonsense, like something out of the American movies I used to watch. They dont even seem to believe it anymore. But they dont seem to care how long I sit here, either.

    When I was at home in Yemen, in 2000, a childhood friend told me that in Afghanistan I could do better than the $50 a month I earned in a factory, and support my family. Id never really traveled, and knew nothing about Afghanistan, but I gave it a try.

    I was wrong to trust him. There was no work. I wanted to leave, but had no money to fly home. After the American invasion in 2001, I fled to Pakistan like everyone else. The Pakistanis arrested me when I asked to see someone from the Yemeni Embassy. I was then sent to Kandahar, and put on the first plane to Gitmo.

    Last month, on March 15, I was sick in the prison hospital and refused to be fed. A team from the E.R.F. (Extreme Reaction Force), a squad of eight military police officers in riot gear, burst in. They tied my hands and feet to the bed. They forcibly inserted an IV into my hand. I spent 26 hours in this state, tied to the bed. During this time I was not permitted to go to the toilet. They inserted a catheter, which was painful, degrading and unnecessary. I was not even permitted to pray.

    I will never forget the first time they passed the feeding tube up my nose. I cant describe how painful it is to be force-fed this way. As it was thrust in, it made me feel like throwing up. I wanted to vomit, but I couldnt. There was agony in my chest, throat and stomach. I had never experienced such pain before. I would not wish this cruel punishment upon anyone.

    I am still being force-fed. Two times a day they tie me to a chair in my cell. My arms, legs and head are strapped down. I never know when they will come. Sometimes they come during the night, as late as 11 p.m., when Im sleeping.

    There are so many of us on hunger strike now that there arent enough qualified medical staff members to carry out the force-feedings; nothing is happening at regular intervals. They are feeding people around the clock just to keep up.

    During one force-feeding the nurse pushed the tube about 18 inches into my stomach, hurting me more than usual, because she was doing things so hastily. I called the interpreter to ask the doctor if the procedure was being done correctly or not.

    It was so painful that I begged them to stop feeding me. The nurse refused to stop feeding me. As they were finishing, some of the food spilled on my clothes. I asked them to change my clothes, but the guard refused to allow me to hold on to this last shred of my dignity.

    When they come to force me into the chair, if I refuse to be tied up, they call the E.R.F. team. So I have a choice. Either I can exercise my right to protest my detention, and be beaten up, or I can submit to painful force-feeding.

    The only reason I am still here is that President Obama refuses to send any detainees back to Yemen. This makes no sense. I am a human being, not a passport, and I deserve to be treated like one.

    I do not want to die here, but until President Obama and Yemens president do something, that is what I risk every day.

    Where is my government? I will submit to any security measures they want in order to go home, even though they are totally unnecessary.

    I will agree to whatever it takes in order to be free. I am now 35. All I want is to see my family again and to start a family of my own.

    The situation is desperate now. All of the detainees here are suffering deeply. At least 40 people here are on a hunger strike. People are fainting with exhaustion every day. I have vomited blood.

    And there is no end in sight to our imprisonment. Denying ourselves food and risking death every day is the choice we have made.

    I just hope that because of the pain we are suffering, the eyes of the world will once again look to Guantnamo before it is too late.

    Samir Naji al Hasan Moqbel, a prisoner at Guantnamo Bay since 2002, told this story, through an Arabic interpreter, to his lawyers at the legal charity Reprieve in an unclassified telephone call.

  • #2
    Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

    Clearly you are mistaken Danny.

    Obama closed GITMO during his first year in office. That was a major plank of his 2008 platform.

    And with it's closing, Obama restored the lost faith and trust internationally in America

    ?


    • #3
      Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

      Hmmm. When things go well, it's "Obama is doing XXXX". When deplorable shit like this happens, it's "You guys".

      You are completely on the wrong side of this issue, Danny. COMPLETELY.

      I have consistently excoriated both Bush and Obama for their collective and ongoing unconstitutional suspension of Habeas Corpus.

      You have defended or offered excuses for Obama every time I have challenged you on this issue.

      And now you are upset about what "us guys" are doing there? BULLSHIT.

      This is COMPLETELY on Obama now. If you want to condemn this - which you should - the only way you can do so with any honesty or integrity is to lay it squarely at Obama's feet.

      Sorry, Danny, you're gonna have to man up here and blame your guy for this, because it truly belongs to him now. From your own article: "The only reason I am still here is that President Obama refuses to send any detainees back to Yemen. This makes no sense. I am a human being, not a passport, and I deserve to be treated like one."

      No way you're pinning this shit on "you guys", Danny. Man up and blame the man in charge, the man responsible. The man in your avatar - President Barack Obama.

      It's only fair to warn you - as long as you refuse to lay the blame where it belongs, I am gonna eat your fuckin lunch in this thread. We'll revisit every time I called Obama out on secret policies for indefinite detention, suspension of HC, all of it - and every weak excuse and defense of these policies you offered. We're nearly half a decade into Obama's version of these crimes against humanity and the Constitution. There's no way - NO way - you are going to suddenly get an attack of angst about what your guy is doing and still squirm and wriggle around blaming him clearly and directly. No. Fucking. Way.
      Last edited by MattInFla; 04-15-2013, 09:20 AM.

      ?


      • #4
        Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

        Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
        Hmmm. When things go well, it's "Obama is doing XXXX". When deplorable shit like this happens, it's "You guys".

        You are completely on the wrong side of this issue, Danny. COMPLETELY.

        I have consistently excoriated both Bush and Obama for their collective and ongoing unconstitutional suspension of Habeas Corpus.

        You have defended or offered excuses for Obama every time I have challenged you on this issue.

        And now you are upset about what "us guys" are doing there? BULLSHIT.

        This is COMPLETELY on Obama now. If you want to condemn this - which you should - the only way you can do so with any honesty or integrity is to lay it squarely at Obama's feet.

        Sorry, Danny, you're gonna have to man up here and blame your guy for this, because it truly belongs to him now. From your own article: "The only reason I am still here is that President Obama refuses to send any detainees back to Yemen. This makes no sense. I am a human being, not a passport, and I deserve to be treated like one."

        No way you're pinning this shit on "you guys", Danny. Man up and blame the man in charge, the man responsible. The man in your avatar - President Barack Obama.

        It's only fair to warn you - as long as you refuse to lay the blame where it belongs, I am gonna eat your fuckin lunch in this thread. We'll revisit every time I called Obama out on secret policies for indefinite detention, suspension of HC, all of it - and every weak excuse and defense of these policies you offered. We're nearly half a decade into Obama's version of these crimes against humanity and the Constitution. There's no way - NO way - you are going to suddenly get an attack of angst about what your guy is doing and still squirm and wriggle around blaming him clearly and directly. No. Fucking. Way.
        Yeah, pretty much. Obama's had how many YEARS to fulfill his promise?

        I have to believe that it's a lot more complicated than just letting everyone in Gitmo go to the country of their choice and turning them lose so they can re-join Al Qaeda and shoot at our troops again.

        If it was only that, I'm sure that Obama would have already done it, and put our troops into greater danger, without hesitation.

        And, if we really do end up doing that (i.e. catch and release), it'll be the final decision that will make the approach to combating international terrorism a police approach, rather than a military problem, reguardless of how ineffective that will end up being, which is yet another liberal / progressive position.

        ?


        • #5
          Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

          Originally posted by eohrnberger View Post
          Yeah, pretty much. Obama's had how many YEARS to fulfill his promise?

          I have to believe that it's a lot more complicated than just letting everyone in Gitmo go to the country of their choice and turning them lose so they can re-join Al Qaeda and shoot at our troops again.

          If it was only that, I'm sure that Obama would have already done it, and put our troops into greater danger, without hesitation.

          And, if we really do end up doing that (i.e. catch and release), it'll be the final decision that will make the approach to combating international terrorism a police approach, rather than a military problem, reguardless of how ineffective that will end up being, which is yet another liberal / progressive position.
          It's not even that Obama has not fulfilled his promise or that this situation continues through passive neglect.

          The Obama administration has ACTIVELY continued these processes, even going to far as to codify in secret policies exactly who can be detained indefinitely in secret prisons: Obama Administration Officials Drafting Secret Indefinite Detention Policy | American Civil Liberties Union

          Danny is well aware of this - he's offered many an excuse for these acts. Now, Danny wants to pretend these atrocities are somehow isolated from President Obama. Sadly, the reality is that the President is neck deep in this....

          ?


          • #6
            Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

            Hey I'm not excusing Obama here. As much as Republicans didn't allow him to close GITMO by cutting off funds, I would expect to hear more from him on the issue. Since he isn't then he needs to be blamed for being complacent. What is going on there is an outrage and as Americans, you should be ashamed, regardless of political affiliation.

            ?


            • #7
              Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

              Originally posted by Danny View Post
              Hey I'm not excusing Obama here. As much as Republicans didn't allow him to close GITMO by cutting off funds, I would expect to hear more from him on the issue. Since he isn't then he needs to be blamed for being complacent. What is going on there is an outrage and as Americans, you should be ashamed, regardless of political affiliation.
              Not complacency, Danny - The Obama administration has ACTIVELY pursued and expanded these human rights violations. You know this, because we've discussed it many times in the forum - and you've always offered excused. In fact, if you read what you just posted, you did it again.

              Say it with me, Danny - "This is a travesty, and it is completely the fault of President Obama". No deflections about the GOP, no evasion. Obama is in charge, and this is his fault.

              As far as outrage, I've been outraged about it for 8 years. You've seen the posts.....

              ?


              • #8
                Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                The partisian blame game gets so old.

                --------------

                Danny,

                Not to excuse anything, as it is a shame that some people got scooped up and stuck in this legal purgatory.

                But I recall a credible article on the Gitmo issue and one of the problems was that while many of the detainees had been sent back, some of the detainees that they wanted to send back to their home nations, the home nation refused to take them. And they could not find any other nation to take them.

                I don't know if that applies to the guy in the article above or not.

                ?


                • #9
                  Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                  And the goober 're-write history' award goes to:

                  Originally posted by Danny View Post
                  Hey I'm not excusing Obama here. As much as Republicans didn't allow him to close GITMO by cutting off funds, I would expect to hear more from him on the issue. Since he isn't then he needs to be blamed for being complacent. What is going on there is an outrage and as Americans, you should be ashamed, regardless of political affiliation.
                  No such thing happened... especially in the first year of Obama's reign when the Democrats controlled Congress.

                  ?


                  • #10
                    Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                    Originally posted by Jihad4Beer View Post
                    The partisian blame game gets so old.
                    What partisan blame game?

                    I condemned Bush just as vociferously as I condemn Obama for these human rights violations.

                    I've started three threads and made more than 80 posts about it in just over 2 years.

                    http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/whit...detention.html
                    http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/whit...as-corpus.html
                    http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/whit...as-corpus.html

                    The archive search is uber slow, but I checked there once and I had even more posts about it condemning it under Bush.

                    In short, the partisan blame game is in your head. In the real world, both President Bush and President Obama are equally guilty of maintaining an ongoing, agressive policy of unconstitutionally suspension of Habeas Corpus and indefinite detentions.

                    Both. Equally.

                    There's no partisan blame game there, unless you invent one.

                    ?


                    • #11
                      Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                      I want to apologize to Danny for my first post here. It was very strongly worded, and crossed over into being harsh. This is an issue I am passionate about, but I should have been more measured.

                      It took guts for Danny to start this thread, and I understand it is not easy to admit that a person you admire has let you down a bit - or a lot.

                      ?


                      • #12
                        Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                        Originally posted by tsquare View Post
                        And the goober 're-write history' award goes to:

                        No such thing happened... especially in the first year of Obama's reign when the Democrats controlled Congress.
                        In the end the vote did get some Dem votes, it was largely a GOP frenzy to stick it ot the President.

                        EXCLUSIVE: Senators try to block funding to close Gitmo - Washington Times


                        Originally posted by MattInFla View Post
                        I want to apologize to Danny for my first post here. It was very strongly worded, and crossed over into being harsh. This is an issue I am passionate about, but I should have been more measured.

                        It took guts for Danny to start this thread, and I understand it is not easy to admit that a person you admire has let you down a bit - or a lot.

                        No worries at all. It appears we share the same concern. I can't fault Obama 100% as you suggested though. I'm giving him a large part of the blame but since attempts to shut GITMO were so vehemently blocked by the GOP, it's only fair to assign them blame as well. I mean you saw the outcry over KSM's civilian trial didn't you?

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                        • #13
                          Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                          Originally posted by Jihad4Beer View Post
                          The partisian blame game gets so old.

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                          Danny,

                          Not to excuse anything, as it is a shame that some people got scooped up and stuck in this legal purgatory.

                          But I recall a credible article on the Gitmo issue and one of the problems was that while many of the detainees had been sent back, some of the detainees that they wanted to send back to their home nations, the home nation refused to take them. And they could not find any other nation to take them.

                          I don't know if that applies to the guy in the article above or not.
                          I think some European nations have offered to take in some prisoners

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                          • #14
                            Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                            Originally posted by Danny View Post
                            In the end the vote did get some Dem votes, it was largely a GOP frenzy to stick it ot the President.

                            EXCLUSIVE: Senators try to block funding to close Gitmo - Washington Times
                            The legislation that now blocks the funding and expires in just days is part of the Supplemental War Spending Bill and was written by Sen. Daniel K. Inouye, Hawaii Democrat and chairman of the appropriations committee.
                            Good try Danny... (from your link)

                            If you feel the way you do, then Obama should just release them... say to Canada. Canada has (as I understand it) quite a 'liberal' political refugee program... these guys, abused as they have been, should make the grade... don't you think?

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                            • #15
                              Re: What are you guys doing at GITMO?

                              Originally posted by Danny View Post
                              In the end the vote did get some Dem votes, it was largely a GOP frenzy to stick it ot the President.

                              EXCLUSIVE: Senators try to block funding to close Gitmo - Washington Times

                              No worries at all. It appears we share the same concern. I can't fault Obama 100% as you suggested though. I'm giving him a large part of the blame but since attempts to shut GITMO were so vehemently blocked by the GOP, it's only fair to assign them blame as well. I mean you saw the outcry over KSM's civilian trial didn't you?
                              I think this may be a bit of GOP derangement syndrome.

                              Yes, the president proposed that we should open up an Illinois prison to house these Gitmo prisoners, if I recall, even the Illinois congressmen didn't want that.

                              If I recall, the question was their legal standing should they be permitted to enter US territory. Next thing you'd know they'd all have to have full blown federal jury trials.

                              Nice in theory, but consider the cost burden to the federal court system for that many prisoners injected into the system over essentially a single second, i.e. the signing of an executive order or legislation. Somehow the practicality seems to be failing on that one.

                              There's something more to the story here that we've not been told that is keeping those guys down there, both the previous and this current administration seem bound to.

                              Hell, at this point, I say let them all go, and just not take any more prisoners on the battlefield. Is that the position that you are advocating?
                              More than likely it'd be an in-theater detention center with military tribunals and / or local sentencing.

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