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England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

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  • England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

    In Britain, Police Arrest Twitter And Facebook Users If They Make Anti-Muslim Statements | Business Insider

    Despite what England and the EU want us to believe here in the US, they do not have the Freedom we have here, at least what we have for now. They are constrained in what they say and do more so than we are by a long shot. This hypocritical stance on statements about Islam is one big one.

    British police are arresting people in the middle of the night if they have made racist or anti-Muslim comments on Twitter following the murder of a soldier by two Muslims in Woolwich, London.
    If you think something like this cannot happen here.

    This is what is coming.

    http://joemiller.us/2013/12/irs-rule...701e-218757221

    New rules proposed in the Federal Register, Staver said, are “designed to silence and greatly restrict the activities of Liberty Counsel Action and other 501 (c) 4 nonprofit organizations during the upcoming election year.”
    Read more at http://joemiller.us/2013/12/irs-rule...l5rtbitz8vx.99

  • #2
    Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

    Criticizing Christians and Christianity seems to be a full time occupation for many in our MSM but you don't see them saying the same things about Muslims. Why? Because they don't want their throats slit. They can get all of this religious hatred out of their systems by ragging on Christians and not put their own lives in danger. I am sure that this administration will do whatever it can to gag anyone opposed to their failed agenda.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #3
      Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

      Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
      In Britain, Police Arrest Twitter And Facebook Users If They Make Anti-Muslim Statements | Business Insider

      Despite what England and the EU want us to believe here in the US, they do not have the Freedom we have here, at least what we have for now. They are constrained in what they say and do more so than we are by a long shot. This hypocritical stance on statements about Islam is one big one.



      If you think something like this cannot happen here.

      This is what is coming.

      IRS Proposing New Regulations That Would Silence Obama's Critics | Restoring Liberty
      Easy to see that the emperor has no clothes. Easy to believe that this isn't the first time down this path fro this administration.

      Where does this administration and this president get off thinking that this is an appropriate use of government? The IRS?
      Aren't these the questions that a non-biased, speaking truth to power, holding politicians accountable, media would be asking?

      Ahh yes. How our Republic is under great threat from within, internal rot.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

        Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
        In Britain, Police Arrest Twitter And Facebook Users If They Make Anti-Muslim Statements | Business Insider

        Despite what England and the EU want us to believe here in the US, they do not have the Freedom we have here, at least what we have for now. They are constrained in what they say and do more so than we are by a long shot. This hypocritical stance on statements about Islam is one big one.



        If you think something like this cannot happen here.

        This is what is coming.

        IRS Proposing New Regulations That Would Silence Obama's Critics | Restoring Liberty

        This is if at all a british, not an EU issue (since the EU has simply nothing to do with it). Incitement to hatred ( regardless against which group, Muslims, Jews, Gays etc.) has been a punishable offence under the british penal code since 1976 :

        Incitement to ethnic or racial hatred - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        It is furthermore a bit funny to recieve lectures about freedom of (hate) speech on the Internet from the US, the home of the "brave" and the NSA, that kindly taps our computers


        http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-911451.html


        As a joke, a German man recently invited some friends for a walk around a top secret NSA facility. But the Facebook invitation soon had German federal police knocking at his door. They had been alerted by the American authorities.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

          Originally posted by Voland View Post
          This is if at all a british, not an EU issue (since the EU has simply nothing to do with it). Incitement to hatred ( regardless against which group, Muslims, Jews, Gays etc.) has been a punishable offence under the british penal code since 1976 :

          Incitement to ethnic or racial hatred - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          It is furthermore a bit funny to recieve lectures about freedom of (hate) speech on the Internet from the US, the home of the "brave" and the NSA, that kindly taps our computers


          US Military and German Police Respond to Facebook Post about NSA Walk - SPIEGEL ONLINE
          Hate speech is bad for everyone. On the other hand, factual observations about any religion is truth, and truth is always good. We face the risk of making truth untenable, and prosecutable.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
            Hate speech is bad for everyone. On the other hand, factual observations about any religion is truth, and truth is always good. We face the risk of making truth untenable, and prosecutable.

            Neither the truth nor the definition of hate speech is always objective. But that is not even the point here.
            British police weren´t acting as they did because of statements about this or that religion, but because of potential dangers to public order and safety. A couple of persons that couldnt be ruled out NOT to leave it at words ( in the aftermath of the horrific murder in question) were stopped preemptively ( from creating a larger mess). At least that is the official line more or less. Wether police were acting legally and appropriately will be challenged in court. And rightly so. Had "revenge killings" taken place, police would again have been blamed. For not protecting public safety etc.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

              Originally posted by Voland View Post
              Neither the truth nor the definition of hate speech is always objective. But that is not even the point here.
              British police weren´t acting as they did because of statements about this or that religion, but because of potential dangers to public order and safety. A couple of persons that couldnt be ruled out NOT to leave it at words ( in the aftermath of the horrific murder in question) were stopped preemptively ( from creating a larger mess). At least that is the official line more or less. Wether police were acting legally and appropriately will be challenged in court. And rightly so. Had "revenge killings" taken place, police would again have been blamed. For not protecting public safety etc.
              Benjamin Franklin said it best.

              I never get it exact but close enough.

              Those who are willing to give up liberty for security will find they have neither liberty nor security.

              BTW

              Political Correctness which is the bastard father of hate speech hinders us more than some asshole taking offense over something said.

              As for truth.

              Islam is by actions a religion of hate, murder and persecution against others. It is Mafia like in it's organization and restrictions and controls of it's followers. You have 1% who are the terrorist, you have 98% who are middle of the road with their mouths closed and heads down and you have the 1% who are actually the side of peace.

              When those in the middle of the road are too scared to speak out against the atrocities committed by the extremists it only encourages them.

              The law as it is being applied results in for example if I were to criticize the death of homosexuals I could be arrested. It isn't just saying things that are not lies it is even saying facts.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                Originally posted by Wlessard View Post
                Benjamin Franklin said it best.

                I never get it exact but close enough.

                Those who are willing to give up liberty for security will find they have neither liberty nor security.

                BTW

                Political Correctness which is the bastard father of hate speech hinders us more than some asshole taking offense over something said.

                As for truth.

                Islam is by actions a religion of hate, murder and persecution against others. It is Mafia like in it's organization and restrictions and controls of it's followers. You have 1% who are the terrorist, you have 98% who are middle of the road with their mouths closed and heads down and you have the 1% who are actually the side of peace.

                When those in the middle of the road are too scared to speak out against the atrocities committed by the extremists it only encourages them.

                The law as it is being applied results in for example if I were to criticize the death of homosexuals I could be arrested. It isn't just saying things that are not lies it is even saying facts.

                It is not actually that difficult, dear. Noone on the part of the authorities has made any point about Islam or about political correctness, as far I am aware. It is the polices job to maintain public order and safety. If persons are posting messages, for example on Facebook or Twitter, that indicate one might endanger himnself or others ( regardless to which group they belong) than that person may be preemptively taken in custody ( if police are alerted somehow). That is apparently what has happened here, and could also happen to you in the US under certain circumstances. And wether the action was justified and legal, and wether rights were violated, will be examined in court. That is basically the story here.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                  The US has a similar ban on free speech: anything that would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot) (from wikipedia)

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                    Originally posted by rocheteau View Post
                    The US has a similar ban on free speech: anything that would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot) (from wikipedia)
                    Well, all western nations to my knowledge allow preemptive arrests if imminent danger to persons or public order cannot be ruled out, f.e. based on Twitter messages. These arrests obviously have to be confirmed in court and the issue is legally highly delicate. But most certainly not an US vs. EU issue. Not to mention that also psychotic gunmen as well as terrorists have already been arrested preemptively, based on messages they left somewhere.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #11
                      Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                      This can go in too many directions here. My primary concern is knowing what exactly these two (or three) people said to warrant being arrested. Without that all we are left with is speculation on what they said being just "critical" of a religion or inciting violence against someone. The below portion of the article seems to point more to the latter of the two. If it were otherwise both stand a good change to beat this in court.

                      When it comes to the US Constitution the biggest mistake made is the assumption that "Freedom of Speech" means a release from responsibility of what was said. That one can say anything, at anytime, for any reason and be protected on Constitutional grounds. That is not entirely true. It is an overused example but still valid. You yell out fire in a crowed place when there is not one, someone gets hurt in the panic, then you are responsible for that. If you go on social media and call for violence against someone there is a chance you can get charged with a crime, perhaps even terroristic threat (as an example.)

                      "We began inquiries into the comments and at around 3.20am two men, aged 23 and 22, were detained at two addresses in Bristol.

                      "The men were arrested under the Public Order Act on suspicion of inciting racial or religious hatred. Our inquiries into these comments continue.

                      "These comments were directed against a section of our community. Comments such as these are completely unacceptable and only cause more harm to our community in Bristol.

                      "People should stop and think about what they say on social media before making statements as the consequences could be serious."

                      Police confirmed the two men were later released on bail pending further inquiries.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                        Originally posted by Voland View Post
                        Neither the truth nor the definition of hate speech is always objective. But that is not even the point here.
                        British police weren´t acting as they did because of statements about this or that religion, but because of potential dangers to public order and safety. A couple of persons that couldnt be ruled out NOT to leave it at words ( in the aftermath of the horrific murder in question) were stopped preemptively ( from creating a larger mess). At least that is the official line more or less. Wether police were acting legally and appropriately will be challenged in court. And rightly so. Had "revenge killings" taken place, police would again have been blamed. For not protecting public safety etc.
                        The truth by definition is what objective is also. Only when you enter into the subjective does truth flee. So stay in the objective and run from the subjective.

                        Here is an illustration of truth. I stick a needle in your arm, a big one, and you feel pain. Pain is truth. The needle caused the pain is truth. Even if pain itself is said by some to be subjective.

                        Here is another objective truth. Man is a selfish, self centered being. Truth, verified by the human experience.

                        How about this, radical islamists do not respect human life, and will take it for an ideology. Truth, objective. And if you run from this, in your subjectivity, what does that make you? In truth?

                        Truth is always objective and if it isn't its not truth. Perhaps just an idea that disquises itself as truth. We should always seek the truth, even if we can never find it. I think humanity rises or falls in the degree it is sought. If we ever want order, we must seek truth, in every breath we take, an ongoing search that never ends.

                        But expressing truth in words can be deemed hate speech. And that presents a problem in the seeking of truth.
                        Last edited by Blue Doggy; 12-29-2013, 09:48 AM.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #13
                          Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                          I've look a bit, can anyone find what these guys actually said that got them arrested? (Seems important, I think.)

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                            Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
                            I've look a bit, can anyone find what these guys actually said that got them arrested? (Seems important, I think.)
                            And that is of great importance, exactly what they said. I couldn't find it either. And it should be readily available, considering the charges.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #15
                              Re: England, where you are free as the US, except to critize Islam

                              Originally posted by Voland View Post
                              Neither the truth nor the definition of hate speech is always objective. But that is not even the point here.
                              British police weren´t acting as they did because of statements about this or that religion, but because of potential dangers to public order and safety. A couple of persons that couldnt be ruled out NOT to leave it at words ( in the aftermath of the horrific murder in question) were stopped preemptively ( from creating a larger mess). At least that is the official line more or less. Wether police were acting legally and appropriately will be challenged in court. And rightly so. Had "revenge killings" taken place, police would again have been blamed. For not protecting public safety etc.
                              Perhaps the police, if they want to be the "protectors" of the public, should imprison the murderers instead of the truth speakers. This makes it seem like the police are less concerned about the actual beheading and more concerned about the people who speak out against it.

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