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Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

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  • Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

    Holder, Duncan announce national guidelines on school discipline
    Federal data show racial gaps in school arrests

    So here's the problem:
    Duncan told the crowd that racial discrimination in school discipline is “a real problem today — it’s not just an issue from 30 or 40 or 50 years ago.” He said the Obama administration is the first to provide national guidance on the issue.
    In a more focused analysis of school systems with more than 50,000 students enrolled, the data showed that African American students represented 24 percent of enrollment but 35 percent of arrests. White students accounted for 31 percent of enrollment and 21 percent of arrests. For Hispanic students, there was less of a disparity in arrests. They accounted for 34 percent of enrollment and 37 percent of arrests.
    OK. So black kids are getting hooked up more often than white kids for disciplinary issues and something needs to be done to fix this problem. We've got data so we can get to work, right?

    Not exactly.

    On arrests, no data were collected about the types of offenses involved. Critics say school arrests are too often made for adolescent misjudgments — such as insubordination, disrespect, class disruption and fighting — that, in previous generations, were handled with calls to parents and visits to principals’ offices.
    So we don't have any data on what the kids were doing to cause the referral to law enforcement? Hmm.....wouldn't that be important?

    Look, if black kids are getting referrals for mouthing off to a teacher and white kids who mouth off aren't getting referred then maybe we have an issue with the schools BUT WE NEED THAT DATA!! If the problem is that these kids are a product of a community decimated by decades of government "help" then just evening up the suspension percentages isn't going to fix a damned thing.

    I am just beside myself at the pure political pandering that we are seeing in this country. There's no leadership and damned sure no Statesmanship. These pukes in DC are doing absolutely nothing but vote farming and it's the people of this country who are getting screwed.

    If you think it's bad that Chris Christie created a traffic jam for political reasons then crap like this should send you into orbit!

  • #2
    Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

    They are just increasing school workloads for the expense of not teaching, there will surely be compliance forms and reporting for schools which will decreases funds available for acyually teaching students. Most people don't seem to realize this but many (all?)educational districts have more people on staff than they do educatorsand this is part of the ongoin financial burden screwing up our public educational system. A lot of that staff is required to keep up with federal mandates... adding more will surely help.

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    • #3
      Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

      This ends the debate for me on Federal involvement in the Education System, in any respect. What this boils down to is kids are still acting in a way that causes complications for teachers and administrators. Instead of doing something about those kids, relax the rules and hope for the best.

      Only in America...

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #4
        Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

        Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
        This ends the debate for me on Federal involvement in the Education System, in any respect. What this boils down to is kids are still acting in a way that causes complications for teachers and administrators. Instead of doing something about those kids, relax the rules and hope for the best.

        Only in America...
        Time outs have worked so well for the last couple generations haven't they as well.

        Bring back the paddle and enough with this self esteem shit about celebrating moving on to every grade when grades are inflated to move someone unworthy to the next level.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #5
          Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

          Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
          This ends the debate for me on Federal involvement in the Education System, in any respect. What this boils down to is kids are still acting in a way that causes complications for teachers and administrators. Instead of doing something about those kids, relax the rules and hope for the best.

          Only in America...
          Exactly!

          The bastards keep on reducing standards or creating ways to work around existing standards. Well, once we have no standards I guess everything will be hunky dory...right?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #6
            Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

            You don't understand. Facts don't matter, only numbers. It's just like CRA. Janet Reno went to banks and said your loans in this area of town don't match the numbers in that area of town and you need to fix that by making more loans over here. The fact that the properties and the borrowers were both substandard didn't mean a thing.

            Democrats need to feel good about doing something whether it is the right thing or not doesn't matter.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #7
              Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

              They are always going after the superficial, and dare not to even notice or talk about the deep causes involved here, with the black kids.

              If Holder and his minions would get out of their ivory tower mentality, and go and spend a month in the inner city, in the hoods, they might then have an insight into what gov't can and cannot do to address this issue that seems to bother them.

              It reminds me of an incident years ago when my new neighbors were from a northern city, and relocated here because of the papermill we have here. They were trying to be typically rural southerners and had set out a few dozen tomato plants in a nice little garden. I was growing my own crop of tomatoes which they kept an eye on, even walking over to peruse them. Once the plants started to bloom, and make little fruits, their own plants all started to turn yellow and stopped growing. Blooms were falling off and not making fruit. They were told by someone they must have spider mites, and they went to the farm supply store and bought the pesticide needed. They kept spraying these plants and the yellowing was growing. My own plants were quite healthy. What they needed was nitrogen, fed to the roots. But they were trying to solve the problem superficially, and not addressing the root cause.

              My point is, this problem with blacks in schools has a root cause. And until that root caused is addressed, we can waste time and money in attacking the superficial. Why is it that we have stopped addressing the root causes, have stopped nipping something in the bud? As soon at the gov't became aware of what LBJs war on poverty was doing to the black family, they should have nipped that in the bud by changing how welfare was given. A society that cannot act in a logical fashion can't solve anything, but can only create more problems. And waste a lot of tax payer money in doing it.

              I firmly believe that many of America's social problems are rooted in how we have as a society devalued marriage. Every half ass educated person knows that the nuclear family is the foundation blocks of a society. And so law and policy should be constructed to encourage marriage, and make divorce as difficult to get as it once was when I was a kid. Contracts should not be an easy thing to walk away from, whether it be a marriage contract or a business contract. Making divorce much harder to get would encourage many people to think long and hard before they commit to the girl they picked up drunk in some bar. We might be a little more careful in whom we choose as contractual partners. But when you can null and void a contract simply because she used to give you oral sex, but now she won't.....well, marriage isn't much of anything, is it? Yet it is still the foundation of all societies. Foundations should be built on bedrock, not shifting sands. A society that agrees to the shifiting sands foundation is basically stupid.
              Last edited by Blue Doggy; 01-09-2014, 09:58 AM.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #8
                Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                They are always going after the superficial, and dare not to even notice or talk about the deep causes involved here, with the black kids.

                If Holder and his minions would get out of their ivory tower mentality, and go and spend a month in the inner city, in the hoods, they might then have an insight into what gov't can and cannot do to address this issue that seems to bother them.

                It reminds me of an incident years ago when my new neighbors were from a northern city, and relocated here because of the papermill we have here. They were trying to be typically rural southerners and had set out a few dozen tomato plants in a nice little garden. I was growing my own crop of tomatoes which they kept an eye on, even walking over to peruse them. Once the plants started to bloom, and make little fruits, their own plants all started to turn yellow and stopped growing. Blooms were falling off and not making fruit. They were told by someone they must have spider mites, and they went to the farm supply store and bought the pesticide needed. They kept spraying these plants and the yellowing was growing. My own plants were quite healthy. What they needed was nitrogen, fed to the roots. But they were trying to solve the problem superficially, and not addressing the root cause.

                My point is, this problem with blacks in schools has a root cause. And until that root caused is addressed, we can waste time and money in attacking the superficial. Why is it that we have stopped addressing the root causes, have stopped nipping something in the bud? As soon at the gov't became aware of what LBJs war on poverty was doing to the black family, they should have nipped that in the bud by changing how welfare was given. A society that cannot act in a logical fashion can't solve anything, but can only create more problems. And waste a lot of tax payer money in doing it.
                That's what happens when you feel instead of think.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #9
                  Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                  Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                  You don't understand. Facts don't matter, only numbers. It's just like CRA. Janet Reno went to banks and said your loans in this area of town don't match the numbers in that area of town and you need to fix that by making more loans over here. The fact that the properties and the borrowers were both substandard didn't mean a thing.

                  Democrats need to feel good about doing something whether it is the right thing or not doesn't matter.
                  Saw a little piece on the Dodd Frank regulations last night. It seems that a new regulatory agency is going to go after the malfesiance involved in not checking income and credit history, the ability to pay back, of the borrowers. The head of this agency said that the banks were not doing that leading up to the bust, and crash. Although he didn't say it, this makes me think that before deregs, the gov't watched banks to make sure they didn't loan to just anyone, before they sold the loan off, discounting it.

                  Is the the part of the DF that cons don't like? Gov't forcing the banks into not loaning money to people who cannot afford it? I know you guys don't like regulations, but if not for regulations, banks don't seem to care what they do in making a profit. In this case, you make a bad loan, and immediately discount it and sell it off. And it can be bundled with other worthless loans, and then sold to a city in Europe as an investment that pays a return on their money. This is what the banks will do if not told by gov't they cannot do it. But many of you guys would be against the gov't interference. You guys don't trust the poor to be anything but lazy bums, but turn a blind eye to what goes on with the big income earners. Am I that far wrong?

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #10
                    Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    That's what happens when you feel instead of think.
                    I know you accuse the dems of this, but I don't see much logic coming from your team either. Perhaps a bit from the Libertarians. I doubt neither libs or cons can be logical, in the important areas that need logic. But having said that, I don't believe the libs have any solutions, none at all. There may be some solution on the right, in some things, but I couldn't throw a blanket here. The bad that the right would do to this nation overwhelms any of the solutions for other problems they might find. You guys want to turn business loose even more than you already have beginning in 1981. Turning them loose has wrecked this nation of average people. The people did not desert business, business deserted the people. That is what turning them loose yielded, although I know you guys will deny it to your very last breath.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                      Originally posted by Lutherf View Post
                      Exactly!

                      The bastards keep on reducing standards or creating ways to work around existing standards. Well, once we have no standards I guess everything will be hunky dory...right?
                      Well, there is no doubt that we do many things to dumb down our population. We already tell ourselves politically to teach to a very low common denominator expecting better results overall. Now it appears we will discipline to that same level, expecting better results. There is no logical conclusion that this will turn out well, or really even change the numbers of trouble makers Holder and Duncan are talking about.

                      It is like saying we assault each other too much, so change the assault and battery laws so less people end up charged with that crime. You could argue well that will just result in more cases of assault but not called assault. It is very likely this will all result in more school violence, as kids learn their actions have less politically motivated consequence. Inner city middle and high schools will become war zones in no time.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #12
                        Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                        It doesn't matter what the teachers and staff try to maintain discipline, if it's not reinforced at home it isn't going to sink in, and your just going to have ever escalating conflicts between the staff and the troublemakers until the kid quits or does something to get themselves into the criminal justice system instead.

                        But the baby daddy is nowhere to be found, and at best mom is at work, so the the kids are raised by the tv and the street.
                        Last edited by Commodore; 01-09-2014, 11:11 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                          Racists... you are all racists.

                          Oh, and leave the brothers alone...

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #14
                            Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                            Originally posted by Blue Doggy View Post
                            Saw a little piece on the Dodd Frank regulations last night. It seems that a new regulatory agency is going to go after the malfesiance involved in not checking income and credit history, the ability to pay back, of the borrowers. The head of this agency said that the banks were not doing that leading up to the bust, and crash. Although he didn't say it, this makes me think that before deregs, the gov't watched banks to make sure they didn't loan to just anyone, before they sold the loan off, discounting it.

                            Is the the part of the DF that cons don't like? Gov't forcing the banks into not loaning money to people who cannot afford it? I know you guys don't like regulations, but if not for regulations, banks don't seem to care what they do in making a profit. In this case, you make a bad loan, and immediately discount it and sell it off. And it can be bundled with other worthless loans, and then sold to a city in Europe as an investment that pays a return on their money. This is what the banks will do if not told by gov't they cannot do it. But many of you guys would be against the gov't interference. You guys don't trust the poor to be anything but lazy bums, but turn a blind eye to what goes on with the big income earners. Am I that far wrong?
                            What happened was that the Government forced banks to lower lending standards in order to make loans to certain people in certain areas of the cities. The banks were not making those loans for good reason but the government regulators told them that if they didn't make those loans all of their future plans would be denied. Once the standards were lowered for that group, they were lowered for everyone and the government just looked away because it was accomplishing their goal.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Holder and Duncan announce program to improve school discipline

                              How does one expect to solve disciplinary problems using the same kind of strategy that created the problem? I hate public schools systems for this very reason -- everything is being relaxed instead of addressing its deficiencies, and the fruit of this product will be a greater debt to society.

                              I'm so glad my children attend private schools where discipline is enforced -- a process that advocates respect to authority; and guess what .. there are little to no out-of-control children or young adults.

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