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Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

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  • #91
    Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

    Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
    No, it's not unconstitutional. Here is the exact wording of the 1st Amendment.



    Is Congress doing this? Nope? Oh, OK.


    Reading is fundamental.
    Bingo. We have a winner.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #92
      Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

      Indeed.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #93
        Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

        The Ten Commandments only violate your 1st amendment rights if they are enforced as law on religious ground. That would be outright endorsement of the God of Abraham.

        We can all pretty much agree that murder, theft, and perjury are bad, but we don't make them illegal to save souls. Therefore, the Ten Commandments are displayed because they represent cultural values of the majority.

        If we enforced the Ten Commandments, the entire left wing would have to be imprisoned for violating the Tenth Commandment.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #94
          Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

          So, in other words, the US Constitution is not a law, but rather a guiding principle, and states can freely choose to adopt it, or ignore any and all the laws contained therein? In short, are you all really saying that the US Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on, or is it only the 2nd amendment that warrants unconditional protection by conservatives?

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #95
            Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

            Originally posted by Commodore View Post
            If we enforced the Ten Commandments, the entire left wing would have to be imprisoned for violating the Tenth Commandment.
            And if the law against adultery was enforced, there'd be few Republican members of congress left either.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #96
              Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

              Originally posted by Chloe View Post
              Touche. (Kind of like accusing you of posting sober / rationally etc )
              Honey I haven't smoked dope since before Christmas. It's not in the budget right now. I also don't post high as I've stated.
              You know what? You go right ahead thinking what you're thinking. Keep diggin that hole in your reputation as an admin.

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #97
                Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                Eh? Its pretty clear insofar as "The Congress shall not", and each state does have its own constitution but to look at the Supremacy clause / aspect, it does allow states to go farther than the Feds allow where they have jurisdiction, it just simply cannot contradict federal law.

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #98
                  Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                  Originally posted by reality View Post
                  Honey I haven't smoked dope since before Christmas. It's not in the budget right now. I also don't post high as I've stated.
                  You know what? You go right ahead thinking what you're thinking. Keep diggin that hole in your reputation as an admin.
                  Hey, for every dig you are giving me, i am firing one right back at you...if that screws my reputation up as an admin, then so be it.

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #99
                    Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                    Originally posted by noahath View Post
                    And if the law against adultery was enforced, there'd be few Republican members of congress left either.
                    But, seeing as they refuse to recognize gay marriage, it would technically not stop any of the part of those who are gay who have affairs from ending up in jail, no? It would basically come down to a lot more "poofs" (as you would call them), in Congress!

                    Might be your lucky day!

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                      Originally posted by Chloe View Post
                      Eh? Its pretty clear insofar as "The Congress shall not", and each state does have its own constitution but to look at the Supremacy clause / aspect, it does allow states to go farther than the Feds allow where they have jurisdiction, it just simply cannot contradict federal law.
                      But would you not agree that the Constitution is a fluid document, after all, some amendments and rights are more protected than others. I used the 2nd as an earlier example, because that one simply cannot be touched, butas demonstrated in this thread, others are happy for other elements of the rights the Constitution is supposed to protect, be "adjusted" to suit people;s political leanings.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                        Originally posted by noahath View Post
                        So, in other words, the US Constitution is not a law, but rather a guiding principle, and states can freely choose to adopt it, or ignore any and all the laws contained therein? In short, are you all really saying that the US Constitution isn't worth the paper it's written on, or is it only the 2nd amendment that warrants unconditional protection by conservatives?
                        The Constitution puts limits on the Federal Government.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                          Originally posted by Noahath
                          But would you not agree that the Constitution is a fluid document, after all, some amendments and rights are more protected than others. I used the 2nd as an earlier example, because that one simply cannot be touched, butas demonstrated in this thread, others are happy for other elements of the rights the Constitution is supposed to protect, be "adjusted" to suit people;s political leanings.
                          In this instance though, it is more of the interpretation of it that seems in question (well, by Reality, anyway). Everyone else (including you) seems to agree that it is a valid interpretation of federal law but like Dilettante and i have said, there does need to be some historical element to it being on federal land / endorsed by the US government.

                          In regards to it being protected...in some ways you could say the same way the 2A is also protected by a pretty large gun lobby (NRA), so is Christianity in the public square along with Judea principles and philosophy combined with the Israel lobby. I am kind of an example of that, too...i knew full well the constitutionality is not in question but it seemed more amusing to argue with Reality and Fennica for the sake of bible thumping for a while. I even go a concession or two. But that is generally because i kind of see the right of religious worship as sacrosanct and that does kind of fit my political leaning.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                            Originally posted by noahath
                            And if the law against adultery was enforced, there'd be few Republican members of congress left either.
                            I don't think it's limited to any particular party, but certainly the one that least makes an effort and fails is going to get the lion share of the media attention.

                            Ten Commandments.jpg
                            Last edited by Commodore; 01-14-2014, 07:39 PM.

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                              Hey hey hey, lawyers aren't all bad! And judges are there to show that, in their decisions! And then when legal work is done, time to go run for public office!

                              (Fish if only you hadn't come in and explained the issue in 3 words lol, i was having some real fun in this thread...i could carry it on with more replies i guess, but oh well, it was a real fun thread!)

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • Re: Do The Ten Commandments violate freedom of speech?

                                Originally posted by noahath View Post
                                I happened across this story this morning, and it raised an interesting question; one which I hadn't thought of before. Enforcing The Ten Commandments actually violates free speech, "cannot take the Lord's name in vain." This will be a VERY interesting case if it makes its way to the Courts. I'll be interested to see what the outcome might be.

                                Most of the 10 Commandments violate U.S. Constitution, atheists say in Oklahoma suit | The Raw Story
                                This is another debate that would be outstanding to have, if we really were to do so. Are there parts of the 10 commandments that violate the Constitution? On the surface the answer is no and I suspect on this path the suit will get thrown out.

                                Should the 10 commandments be in a government building at all? Unsure about that one as I personally have little issue with the matter. But if the argument was made that something sacred was honored by the government in this manner, but something sacred to another religion was declined then you may have grounds for an equality claim. On that level I think opening up the door to government sponsorship of any religion, even indirectly, is problematic. Our issue is that ship sailed long long ago.

                                On this subject though, I guess if one were clever enough one could argue that the 6th, 7th and 8th commandments are all about forbidding direct action and behavior (murder, adultery, and steal.) The 9th is all about forbidding basically injury by words (false witness.) Behavior, but different tone. With the 10th being all about forbidding thought (covet.)

                                Sure the 6th and the 8th have direct law in relation, the 7th and 9th not quite the same, and the 10th is not at all a matter of criminal law. At the same time I am not aware of a law on the books that says taking the "Lord's name in vain" is unacceptable but other forms of cursing is acceptable. In other words I do not see direct protection of 3rd commandment specifically, or really any constitutional argument. Because of, this particular claim against Oklahoma is probably worthless.

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