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Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

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  • #31
    Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
    Actually, the poorest in this country are actually at an advantage at getting college scholarships, grants, and cheap loans. The more your parents make, the less of each of the above is available to you. My daughter qualified for no government grants whatsoever because my wife and I made too much money. My son in law, on the other hand was from a poor family with 6 children. He got quite a bit of government assistance. It cost me very little to pick up the remainder of his costs. Money is not the cause of the failure of minorities to succeed in this country.
    That's right, as this nation has bent over backward to help out the poor who need an education. And I think it has helped them, those that actually wanted to then help themselves by taking advantage of the "leg up".

    The greatest hindrance to many who are poor, and black, is the attitude they have been conditioned with. For that is a recipe for never being able to take care of yourself, and many times these people think that they shouldn't even have to care for themselves, that others should work in order to do that. This is evident in what we call black culture.

    What I fear though is that as we have purged this nation of manual labor jobs, or now don't believe such jobs should pay a man enough to live on, that this attitude will become more apparent in the non blacks and they too will feel there is no hope for them. Working hard is no longer a guarantee of success, unless you are in a field that has not been offshored, which isn't service sector employment.

    I was raised up believing that hard work was the key. And so work was respected, and it formed the American value system. Then we started devaluing work, and only certain work was now valuable. We should not be surprised that the values toward hard work would be changed, given the changes in our economic model.

    The US faces a grave problem, in this area. And it's caused by an illusion, which is fairly recent. And that illusion is, that every human being is capable of the fields that pay enough to live on, which are fields that require above average intelligence, and specialist education. This leaves our a helluva lot of people, as it did in the past. And this is a problem that will have great social consequences, now and in the future. And those consequences have a root cause, and that root cause is the manner in which the economic model is now viewed. When that model is only concerned about the profits of the elites, one should expect the dire consequences of such.

    מה מכילות החדשות?


    • #32
      Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

      Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
      fish,

      Look at other countries examples... One of the most obvious is used by others is University Acceptance, Ireland like many other countries in Europe has close to free university education to the highest level... Entry to the course you want is done by supply and demand (that is a capitalist thing), it is all related to how you score in the state exams...

      Most do 7 subjects with 6 subjects counting (need to pass Math, English and Foreign language)... Points generally range from 100 down to 5 points per subject...
      Points then advertisedhttp://www2.cao.ie/points/l8.php...

      If you are bright enough and workhard you are rewarded, it is not on much money Daddy has and we will not burned you with massive death leaving college...
      Some of our institutions/organizations here in the US operate under the thinking that, in a healthy & functional society, it makes much sense to draw greater vigor from attempting to increase our diversity. Similar to the idea that increases in the diversity of the gene pool has the tendency to make individuals healthier.

      Personally, I think this is one of the United States of America's greatest strengths, although it's not celebrated as much in more recent years. We're an Immigrant Country, every one here came from somewhere else.

      Folks who are educated in the Country of their birth within systems like the one you have described here sometimes immigrate here to mutual benefit, individually they benefit & the USA benefits. Take a medical school education for example. Folks here graduate with a degree to practice medicine & often have very large student debts to pay.

      מה מכילות החדשות?


      • #33
        Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

        Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
        Guess what... If money is taken out of the equation we see the demand go to places where there is jobs...

        Also if you give everyone a fair chance in a very transparent system then you will see kids from poorer backgrounds in better courses...



        So while you spout of about the land of the free, the truth is you are more likely to be born poor in denmark(or France, Germany.....) and succeed than in the US... The land of opportunity by empirical evidence is not so opportune any more... And don't blame Liberal, because the countries which offer better chances are more liberal than US...
        I agree with the gist of what you're saying here. It's not possible to entirely take money out of the equation either here or elsewhere. Although it would be pretty strange not to consider the influence of money in an economic system.

        & yup, 'O'er the land of the free & the home of the brave' is taking quite a beating lately when you stop to think about it.

        מה מכילות החדשות?


        • #34
          Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

          Originally posted by Quinn View Post
          Some of our institutions/organizations here in the US operate under the thinking that, in a healthy & functional society, it makes much sense to draw greater vigor from attempting to increase our diversity. Similar to the idea that increases in the diversity of the gene pool has the tendency to make individuals healthier.

          Personally, I think this is one of the United States of America's greatest strengths, although it's not celebrated as much in more recent years. We're an Immigrant Country, every one here came from somewhere else.

          Folks who are educated in the Country of their birth within systems like the one you have described here sometimes immigrate here to mutual benefit, individually they benefit & the USA benefits. Take a medical school education for example. Folks here graduate with a degree to practice medicine & often have very large student debts to pay.
          And I don't agree with that in the slightest. Celebrating what we have in common and coming together as Americans is much more productive than celebrating differences. My Grandmother and Grandfather on my Mother's side immigrated here during the Bolshevik revolution. They insisted that my Mother and her siblings become Americans, speak English and assimilate into the American culture. Yes, some of their customs and cuisine are still part of America's melting pot as are other ethnic groups but it is far more important for everyone to become an American, rather than a Latin American or an African America or and Asian American. All this pointing out of differences does is create hate, discontent, and division.

          The reason it is not celebrated is that some have recognized the destructive results.

          מה מכילות החדשות?


          • #35
            Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

            Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
            And I don't agree with that in the slightest. Celebrating what we have in common and coming together as Americans is much more productive than celebrating differences. My Grandmother and Grandfather on my Mother's side immigrated here during the Bolshevik revolution. They insisted that my Mother and her siblings become Americans, speak English and assimilate into the American culture. Yes, some of their customs and cuisine are still part of America's melting pot as are other ethnic groups but it is far more important for everyone to become an American, rather than a Latin American or an African America or and Asian American. All this pointing out of differences does is create hate, discontent, and division.

            The reason it is not celebrated is that some have recognized the destructive results.
            Don't twist my words.

            מה מכילות החדשות?


            • #36
              Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

              Then stop misrepresenting just about everybody elses...

              מה מכילות החדשות?


              • #37
                Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                Originally posted by Quinn View Post
                Personally, critical thinking is a more hopeful avenue.
                No no, ignorance is more blissful, seeing as you are trying to evoke a response of some sort with bile like that.

                In other news, kittens are entirely adorable...please rebuff / rebut.

                Think in terms of thought!
                Indeed! (God, where the hell is Skeptic when we need him?)

                מה מכילות החדשות?


                • #38
                  Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                  Originally posted by Quinn View Post
                  The arbiter of all has spoken! There are no other factors. Period. The End. No point to this thread. Done. Finito.

                  Ridiculous.
                  Ridiculous indeed, coming from Mother Superior...

                  מה מכילות החדשות?


                  • #39
                    Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                    Originally posted by OldmanDan View Post
                    And I don't agree with that in the slightest. Celebrating what we have in common and coming together as Americans is much more productive than celebrating differences. My Grandmother and Grandfather on my Mother's side immigrated here during the Bolshevik revolution. They insisted that my Mother and her siblings become Americans, speak English and assimilate into the American culture. Yes, some of their customs and cuisine are still part of America's melting pot as are other ethnic groups but it is far more important for everyone to become an American, rather than a Latin American or an African America or and Asian American. All this pointing out of differences does is create hate, discontent, and division.

                    The reason it is not celebrated is that some have recognized the destructive results.
                    Assimilation into and existing culture is the key to America being what she once was. People who came here used to want to be americans, to be a part of this culture. They still kept some things from the old country, and this added spice, but division is not what was added, due to the assimilation. We didn't have immigrants coming here that wanted to change American culture into the culture they came from, not at all. They wanted to be americans, to assimilate, to learn the language. That simply is no longer the case, for we no longer use intelligence in whom we allow in. We seem to not want those that will assimiliate, but instead those that will not.

                    מה מכילות החדשות?


                    • #40
                      Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                      Originally posted by Dilettante View Post
                      Not only that, but they also makings sweeping generalities about entire racial groups!
                      The sentence structure didn't quite make sense, but ironically you may have a point given how many (on both sides) have made such sweeping comments on race...a lot of the blacks who were rioting (along with their professional agitators and interlopers for catalysts, plus their apologists like those in this thread) all seem to make sweeping statements about how race was the reason for the problems, encompassing making entirely racial slurs / blaming entire races for problems / perception of race issues etc. I don't see you calling any of that out.

                      מה מכילות החדשות?


                      • #41
                        Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                        Originally posted by CowboyTed View Post
                        fish,

                        Look at other countries examples... One of the most obvious is used by others is University Acceptance, Ireland like many other countries in Europe has close to free university education to the highest level... Entry to the course you want is done by supply and demand (that is a capitalist thing), it is all related to how you score in the state exams...

                        Most do 7 subjects with 6 subjects counting (need to pass Math, English and Foreign language)... Points generally range from 100 down to 5 points per subject...
                        Points then advertisedhttp://www2.cao.ie/points/l8.php...

                        If you are bright enough and workhard you are rewarded, it is not on much money Daddy has and we will not burned you with massive death leaving college...
                        We spend a lot of money on public school education (K-12). We spend a lot of money on urban schools. Throwing more money at the problem will not fix it. Nothing in this world is free. You do not have free university education, you have education that is provided at the cost of others. Even if that existed, no college would take the vast majority of the kids from urban schools. They simply would not be at an education level high enough to accept them. You can't have collage kids that are reading on a 5th grade level or hardly being able to read at all. It's just not going to happen and it's not going to change anything.

                        I think, perhaps, you guys have a better culture of education than we do and that may give you better results. The attitudes of education here isn't very good and that's doubly true for urban areas.

                        מה מכילות החדשות?


                        • #42
                          Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                          Originally posted by Chloe View Post
                          Ridiculous indeed, coming from Mother Superior...
                          ok this is getting creepy. So long.

                          מה מכילות החדשות?


                          • #43
                            Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                            Bye...

                            מה מכילות החדשות?


                            • #44
                              Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                              This thread as well, take it easy guys... lets get back to the subjects please.

                              מה מכילות החדשות?


                              • #45
                                Re: Why is there always a racial background in almost every social problem?

                                Originally posted by fishjoel View Post
                                We spend a lot of money on public school education (K-12). We spend a lot of money on urban schools. Throwing more money at the problem will not fix it. Nothing in this world is free. You do not have free university education, you have education that is provided at the cost of others. Even if that existed, no college would take the vast majority of the kids from urban schools. They simply would not be at an education level high enough to accept them. You can't have collage kids that are reading on a 5th grade level or hardly being able to read at all. It's just not going to happen and it's not going to change anything.

                                I think, perhaps, you guys have a better culture of education than we do and that may give you better results. The attitudes of education here isn't very good and that's doubly true for urban areas.
                                Why don't we study that hypothesis, if I may paraphrase from fishj, OMD and others: "All children in our public education system receive substantially equal public resources."
                                Here's one answer, and it does not support that hypothesis...
                                The United States is one of few advanced nations where schools serving better-off children usually have more educational resources than those serving poor students, according to research by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Among the 34 O.E.C.D. nations, only in the United States, Israel and Turkey do disadvantaged schools have lower teacher/student ratios than in those serving more privileged students.

                                Andreas Schleicher, who runs the O.E.C.D.’s international educational assessments, put it to me this way: “The bottom line is that the vast majority of O.E.C.D. countries either invest equally into every student or disproportionately more into disadvantaged students. The U.S. is one of the few countries doing the opposite.” The inequity of education finance in the United States is a feature of the system, not a bug, stemming from its great degree of decentralization and its reliance on local property taxes.
                                http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/bu...anted=all&_r=0

                                I join the skeptics who believe that merely throwing money at a problem will fall short of solving that problem. I'm also skeptical of those who claim that complicated problems don't need careful planning for resource allocation. In the case of education, that means spending money more wisely. Claiming students in low-income neighborhoods somehow have equal student/teacher ratios as students in higher income school neighborhoods is ignorant, rather than wise. It betrays either cynicism (if one knows this but wants to convince others it isn't important) or lack of study of the problem.

                                If only 10% of students quietly ignore peer pressure to remain ignorant and poor, meeting that objective alone would practically end desperate poverty in a few decades. We won't be able to put that modest objective to the test if we fail to look at the resources enjoyed by students in wealthier & more successful school districts. Apply those resources to schools in less wealthy districts, and let's see what happens. The one thing that might be required in poverty-stricken districts (that isn't needed in wealthier schools) is a separation of violent, dysfunctional students. Organized crime doesn't like a well-educated populace, so it is critical to keep their eyes and ears out of the "normal" public schools. Other than that, we should invest the same resources across the board.

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